Need help with our semi fleet cam problems.

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Hoping someone will be able to help us out with our fleet of trucks.

Here is my problem I run 2 C15 engines 6 ISX 15L Cummins motors & 2 new Paccar MX 13. All these motors haul gravel big loads 105 500 lbs. Change oil & filter on religious 300 hr basis less than 10k miles with Cat & fleet guard filters & Delo 400 15-40.

what we have going on is cam problems there has been scratches in cam showing at only 250k miles in the isx & lost a cam in c15 at 450k miles. This seems premature not?

So talking with Cat tech he also has a company showing cam issues with 200k miles with Delo oil.

So do I switch oils? Amsoil or Schafer oils? We start up at neg 10f there plugged in but should I switch to a 5w-40?

I'm just looking at allot of cash to start putting cams & rollers in these low hr engines.

Thanks a million.
 
-10F with 15w40 tells me your engines aren't getting proper lubrication at startup; so "a definite yes" to 5w40 synthetic.

My first thought is Rotella T6, and Amsoil would also be a good choice - you could probably run it longer than the Rotella for less overall cost.
 
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Have you contacted Cummins? Also with out knowing anything really the above post is a great start. $emi
 
Cold temps and heavy loads, even unloaded.

I recall seeing one cat engine sop (propulsion for a small craft), and the instruction was to idle until the oil was to temperature, then load.

I suspect the engines are being loaded too high, too soon.

Are the blocks heated, or does the plug in just warm/keep the battery? Does the sump get warmed? Can you run syn in those cold conditions? 15w-40 is only suitable to around 3F.
 
We let them warm up to warm oil temps before we roll. Block heaters warm the water not the oil
 
Wolverine pan heaters would help, a lot-I run both the pan heater & block heater (& actually a small battery charger) all plugged in for at least 3 hours before starting the F-450 (which is the only truck I have running on 15W40 conventional/dino oil)-cuts way down on the warmup time, much easier to start without the usual blue cloud of unburned fuel as well.
 
Op, you have a 14 gallon oil sump, plus similar or more coolant capacity, think how long it is going to take to warm up those.

I ran 15w40 in my duramax the first winter and midway in winter I dumped it for 5w40.

warmers are great but running a better flowing oil at -10F will yield value.

I time my oil changes so I can dump summer 15w40 for 5w40 pre-winter

How did you find out that the cam is scratched?
 
When it gets really cold in the Canadian North sometimes the trucks are left
running 24/7 or they won't start with or without 5W40.

Delo has the highest ZDDP of them all, so going on an additive quest is not the answer.

From the evidence, it appears that the USA Delo blends are slighter heavier than possibly
their own Canadian market blends.

Petro-Canada's Duron and some others are more suited to our ambient.

I suggest 33% Delo 10W30, in addition to using engine heaters.
 
I would recommend two things.

1) pan heater in addition to block heater
2) T5 in 10w-30

The T5 10w-30 has essentially the same cold pump rating as the T6, for less money, and has way less potential to shear.

Or, Mystik also has a semi 10w-30 HDEO, and they often will give good deals on bulk drum pricing.

Would also be a good idea to contact the OEMs and ask for their input, but not sure how detailed their answer would be.
 
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Ok next?

How bad is it to switch from one oil to another after an engine has 200K on it?? In switching to a full synthetic or a 5-40 am I going to run into leaking seals or issues with parts?? Been told in the past it was bad to do but is that an urban myth??
Granted all motors we have are 2007 & newer.

Again thanks everyone.
 
Regarding the isx engines, they are well known for cam failures but I believe they usually go several hundred thousand miles in OTR applications. I don't have first hand experience but from what I've heard from owners/operators it seems to be a problem with "soft" cams and Cummins doesn't acknowledge a problem.

I had a couple C15 ACERT engines that were mostly without trouble, but I did occasionally here of cam failures. I just did a brief search and found some info that seemed to indicate that Cat cam failures were caused by problems with rollers. I didn't have time to study the issue but it's clearly not some one off thing that you experienced.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the oil itself. As others have said you could use oil pan heaters to aid in super cold starts but I'm unaware if you're allowed to use 10w30 (In the Cat/Cummins). Maybe it's fine, I just don't know.

With your short interval drains, I would go with the pan heaters and stick with a conventional 15w40 for price and protection. It would make me feel better anyway as I spent several years running at 97,000-107,000 in tough terrain.
smile.gif


Have you run oil analyses to see how bad the oil is shearing? Without fuel dilution it should still be much more viscous than a 10w30 that hasn't sheared as much (on a percentage basis).

How about silicon levels in oil analysis? If you're running in a lot of dust the engines could be ingesting a lot of abrasives. That would wear everything of course...not just ruin a cam/roller.

How about fuel dilution due to faulty injector or cup?

Was there cam failure analysis in the Cat? What was suspected there?
 
No oil or other fluid can fix a mechanical defect, but some might extend the life. Try Schaeffer #9000 5W-40 and talk with Dave Haggart. http://www.schaefferoilreps.com/davehaggart/

Do regular oil analyses. There is no reason for frequent oil changes if the oil is still good. The early oil changes won't help a problem with other causes, it just runs up your costs.
 
^^^I agree with Ken^^^

Scaeffer caters to fleets such as yours, they sell in bulk and have an excellent oil analysis program. Find a rep near you, and he will work with you to establish a maintenance program that will be cost effective for you without sacrificing the reliability of your equipment. With oil analysis not only will you be able to save money they will also be able to monitor the health of your engines for any potential problems like you have been seeing.
 
Originally Posted By: Snowjw
Ok next?

How bad is it to switch from one oil to another after an engine has 200K on it?? In switching to a full synthetic or a 5-40 am I going to run into leaking seals or issues with parts?? Been told in the past it was bad to do but is that an urban myth??
Granted all motors we have are 2007 & newer.

Again thanks everyone.


As far as mechanical issues, I personally haven't had any issues when switching brands after long term use of one oil. When I tried 10w30 I did have a bit more seepage from my oil pan gasket but that's it.

It's possible when switching brands/types in a case like yours that you could have some usage for an interval or two but that's not always the case.

I would submit that you need not change your oil brand or type but would use oil analysis to keep track of oil condition and see if you can extend drains, too ( No matter what oil you use ).
 
The ISX, I have owned two of them, was really notorious for cam lobe problems. I was always fond of Cummins, but after those two ISX's, I have totally swore off having a red engine in any of my commercial trucks. I wish I cold link to it, but there was a TSB I just happened upon a few years ago from Cummins, that the rockers were the problem as they had a quality control issue with them.

Since you are having a problem, I would consider the Schaeffer 15w40 syn blend. I went over to it a couple of years ago for my heavy diesels and it has performed great. And the cost is comparable to Wally World special pricing and delivered free of charge. I just ordered a 55 drum of it for $1019, delivered free along with FREE oil sample kits and analysis. I was having shearing problems with a couple of other name brand oils, with no fuel dilution. It went away when I went over to the Schaeffer.

I also use oil pan heaters along with block heaters. Even on the road parked away from shore power. A generator on board or a APU on the truck could supply all the power you need for that. Webasto and Espar both make diesel fired engine coolant heaters that are boss. One of those engine coolant heaters can have block coolant up to 150F in about an hour on a 15L engine. It has very low electrical power demand to run since it uses diesel for main heat generation, and it can do it's thing purely on battery power without jeopardizing engine starting. It only take 500w to run an oil pan heater. Combined, they make a diesel, at -30F, start like it is a warm summer day.
 
Unless they are over a decade old, Doug, there is not a class 8 semi engine being put in a truck anymore that doesn't have some form of engine brake on it, at least in the U.S.
 
Hi,
Snowjw - No answer yet?
TiredTrucker - Engine brake use has long been associated with excessive cam lobe wear. It may be a case here

This of course is due to the very high loads on the lobes when the brakes are used under certain conditions such as cold engines etc. They need to be adjusted correctly (checked regularly) and the Driver needs to be aware of the correct/intended use of these supplementary braking devices in specific and general terms

Use at very low revs, with a cold engine and prolonged use in urban area (not the intent) has been shown to increase cam lobe wear. As well it is important to use the correctly specified lubricant

In my case I used Del 1 5W-40 with never a problem - the improved cold flow over a mineral 15W-40 does help

My own Drivers and the Fleets I dealt with had very strong operating requirements for their Drivers to follow concerning the use of Jake brakes
 
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