Synthetic Oil and the Hemi Tick

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I have a 2014 Ram with the Hemi..I have been using PP from the dealership since Nov. of last year when I bought the truck..I dont have the tick
 
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I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?
 
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Originally Posted By: Scrum67
I have a 2014 Ram with the Hemi..I have been using PP from the dealership since Nov. of last year when I bought the truck..I dont have the tick


Did you have the tick before starting to use PP?
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?


Agree that I will start with the filter. I will also switch to a full synthetic at the same time. According to multiple sources, switching to a heavier weight oil is not an option. Using anything but 5W-20 will cause problems with the MDS. I also belong to 2 Challenger forums as well. Some of the members swear that changing to a full synthetic (Redline was one example) cured the problem. Others claim that a full synthetic oil made the problem worse. So far, I have discovered no consensus on this issue.
 
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Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
Dave,

Welcome aboard! While I have no experience with the HEMI itself, we have several hundred Dodge- V6 Pentastars in our fleet and they all do the exact same thing.


OT-What year are the vehicles, and how are the Pentastar engines holding up? Thanks
 
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Most have already covered the right answers for the OP's issue which is a cold start issue. New filter 1st then try a good synthetic. Might take a combo of both. My personal recommendation is to try RP API in the appropriate weight with an RP oil filter. Have had excellent results with it in earlier model 5.7L's FWIW.

I would definitely get documentation from the dealer( i.e. in writing )that there is a noise at startup because it is not normal and they all do not do it. If they persist in that stance the OP should make them go out to several similar vehicles on the lot and start them up and see if they all do it( don't pick a vehicle that has sat for 2 weeks un-started outside in sub freezing temps as the test mule though ). Also, a trip to a different dealer may result in someone who gives a darn.

Just as a side note I want to point out that the OP's engine noise is not the infamous "HEMI Tick" as the thread title implies and some have called it. This is a cold start tick and they are different. The HEMI tick is present hot or cold and is always there with the engine running. It doesn't go away after warm up. Just as an FYI and not being a tool. I also haven't heard of the newer generation of 5.7L's suffering from it the way the earlier ones did either.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Most have already covered the right answers for the OP's issue which is a cold start issue. New filter 1st then try a good synthetic. Might take a combo of both. My personal recommendation is to try RP API in the appropriate weight with an RP oil filter. Have had excellent results with it in earlier model 5.7L's FWIW.

I would definitely get documentation from the dealer( i.e. in writing )that there is a noise at startup because it is not normal and they all do not do it. If they persist in that stance the OP should make them go out to several similar vehicles on the lot and start them up and see if they all do it( don't pick a vehicle that has sat for 2 weeks un-started outside in sub freezing temps as the test mule though ). Also, a trip to a different dealer may result in someone who gives a darn.

Just as a side note I want to point out that the OP's engine noise is not the infamous "HEMI Tick" as the thread title implies and some have called it. This is a cold start tick and they are different. The HEMI tick is present hot or cold and is always there with the engine running. It doesn't go away after warm up. Just as an FYI and not being a tool. I also haven't heard of the newer generation of 5.7L's suffering from it the way the earlier ones did either.


Good information. Thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: wemay
I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?


Agree that I will start with the filter. I will also switch to a full synthetic at the same time. According to multiple sources, switching to a heavier weight oil is not an option. Using anything but 5W-20 will cause problems with the MDS. I also belong to 2 Challenger forums as well. Some of the members swear that changing to a full synthetic (Redline was one example) cured the problem. Others claim that a full synthetic oil made the problem worse. So far, I have discovered no consensus on this issue.


Yeah, sounds like a head-scratcher. Good luck SilverSnake. I'm sure you'll get this resolved. Lots of good advice here and also, WELCOME to Bitog!
 
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Has anyone here tried valvoline synpower in the hemi to see how it does with the tick? I know that valvoline synpower made both of my engines run the quietest and smoothest. If valvoline synpower made a 0w-30 or 0w-40 I would continue to use it.
 
I have a 2013 Challenger R/T A5 with the 5.7L Hemi. I had the same startup lefter noise a couple of times when using Bosch D+ filters. It has never happened since switching to Wix filters. I run Pennzoil Ultra 5w20.

I have run PU 5w30 in the car during summertime, with no ill effect on the MDS. I would not run 5w30 in the winter though. I am now sticking to 5w20 in all seasons as I am convinced the engine is well-protected with it. Oil temp on this car rarely gets above 210F. At 220F on 5w20 I have 50lbs oil pressure when cruising and 30lbs pressure at idle. That's quite a bit more oil pressure than my GM 6.0L L76 VortecMAX has running 5w30.

Also, FYI, the Motorcraft FL820s filter is internally identical to the Mopar M0899 filter, with the exception that the Motorcraft has the silicone ADBV and costs less money. Go figure. Motorcraft has those funky Ford flutes on the can so uses a different cap wrench.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: wemay
I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?


Agree that I will start with the filter. I will also switch to a full synthetic at the same time. According to multiple sources, switching to a heavier weight oil is not an option. Using anything but 5W-20 will cause problems with the MDS. I also belong to 2 Challenger forums as well. Some of the members swear that changing to a full synthetic (Redline was one example) cured the problem. Others claim that a full synthetic oil made the problem worse. So far, I have discovered no consensus on this issue.


Yeah, sounds like a head-scratcher. Good luck SilverSnake. I'm sure you'll get this resolved. Lots of good advice here and also, WELCOME to Bitog!


Thanks for the welcome. This is a great forum. I have visited here many times since joining in 2013 but this is the first time I have posted.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Have you talked to the service department?


Yes sir. They say it is normal for this engine.


Actually, I think that these service writers should have, "It's normal for your vehicle" tattooed on their forehead. That is as sincere as telling your prom date, "Honey, I'll only .......".
 
To others who have or have owned Hemis:
My 2010 Jeep Hemi 5.7 has from day one had a tick that sounds like an exhaust leak, best heard with driver window down, with acceleration.
No difference in 4 yrs, 35000 miles and multiple types of oil and filters. Dealer claims no exhaust leak found.
Should I just accept this as the "Hemi tick"?
 
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
I have a 2013 Challenger R/T A5 with the 5.7L Hemi. I had the same startup lefter noise a couple of times when using Bosch D+ filters. It has never happened since switching to Wix filters. I run Pennzoil Ultra 5w20.

I have run PU 5w30 in the car during summertime, with no ill effect on the MDS. I would not run 5w30 in the winter though. I am now sticking to 5w20 in all seasons as I am convinced the engine is well-protected with it. Oil temp on this car rarely gets above 210F. At 220F on 5w20 I have 50lbs oil pressure when cruising and 30lbs pressure at idle. That's quite a bit more oil pressure than my GM 6.0L L76 VortecMAX has running 5w30.

Also, FYI, the Motorcraft FL820s filter is internally identical to the Mopar M0899 filter, with the exception that the Motorcraft has the silicone ADBV and costs less money. Go figure. Motorcraft has those funky Ford flutes on the can so uses a different cap wrench.


I think I will give PP Ultra a try for the first go around. I will stick with 5W-20 for the time being although 5W-30 would probably not be an issue here in South Florida.

Interesting that the MO899 and the FL820S are identical inside since some have said that the FL820S fixed the same issue for them. Makes my head hurt. Actually it could be the ADBV difference that led to the fix??

What specific Wix filter are you using that solved the problem for you??
 
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Well I just drove the 2014 Ram for the first time in a week. No start up clatter at all. Still has factory oil and filter (only 500 miles on the truck). Could be the MO-339 filter that makes the difference since the engines in the Challenger and Ram are otherwise identical??
 
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Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: Clevy
K. Whatever man. We've had hemi trucks in our family since 04,and currently there is an 08,a 2010,a2012 and a 2014 in our familial stable,in ram trucks and an 06 rt charger so I do have quite a bit of experience with the 5.7l engine and its capabilities over many hundreds of thousands of miles.
If it does clatter then get out and blow it up so warranty will replace it,otherwise you'll be stuck with a clattery engine for 350000 miles or til you sell it.
My dads 2014 was noisy when new but it was purchased last February so winter was in full effect.
Anyways it's been my experience that noisy or not the hemi is a very long lasting reliable engine,but get whatever concerns you have documented by the dealer just in case.
We've never had an engine problem in any of our hemi engines. The front ends though seem to need complete replacement at or around 200000 miles.


Clevy: I appreciate your inputs and experience. I have no doubt that the 5.7L Hemi is strong and durable. However, I have never had an engine of any kind (and I have owned over 80 vehicles in my life)clatter on start up. My 2014 Ram with the 5.7L does not make a sound on start up (at least not a clattering sound)no matter how long it sits. I want to fix it if on the Challenger if I can. If not, then I will live with it or trade it. I was hoping it might be an oil issue since the factory fill is not full synthetic. Thus the reason for this thread.



Fair enough.
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: wemay
I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?


Agree that I will start with the filter. I will also switch to a full synthetic at the same time. According to multiple sources, switching to a heavier weight oil is not an option. Using anything but 5W-20 will cause problems with the MDS. I also belong to 2 Challenger forums as well. Some of the members swear that changing to a full synthetic (Redline was one example) cured the problem. Others claim that a full synthetic oil made the problem worse. So far, I have discovered no consensus on this issue.




Whoa.
K. Mds and vvt are unaffected by using a thicker grade of oil. I currently have a 0w-40 in my charger,and have been using 40 grades in it for the summer since I acquired it and MDS isn't affected,nor is vvt.

Think about it. An Xw-20 cold is way thicker than an Xw-40 hot,yet the mds and vvt both work just fine when the oil is cold,so please explain.
And don't give me the dodge says so nonsense. There are many reasons dodge wants you to use a 20 grade,not that there's anything wrong with them,it's just that I hear and read all the time on how the hemi needs a 5w-20 for the systems to work which is utter nonsense.
If that were true the vehicles mds and vvt wouldn't work until the oil was up to operating temp,which in the winter can take 30 minutes.
I've proven that mds will engage as soon as I set cruise on flat highway on a cold engine and oil.
And just to be clear my chargers fuel economy is unaffected whether using a 20 grade or a thicker 40 grade. Both grades net me the same fuel consumtion on the highway,and I got my best highway mileage of 31mpg using a 0w-40.
So if I'm capable of getting that kind of mileage and mds isn't working then just imagine what a 20 grade will do.
That whole nonsense of "requiring" a 5w-20 or the mds won't work is nothing more than a scare tactic. All engines are built to run a range of viscosities,not just 1.
Anyway getting back to the 5w-20 grade my 04 got totalled at 280k. It got dealer oil changes every 5000 miles using conventional oil and that truck ran stellar,and didn't consume a drop of oil between changes. So I'm not knocking the 20 grades whatsoever. I've seen many modular ford engines and hemi engines get stratospheric type mileages from the engines using 20 grades all their service lives,I'm just clarifying that a hemi doesn't require a 20 grade for the systems to work.
If that were true the engine would be inoperable until up to operating temp which we know isn't the case.
Truth be told if it is valvetrain then try a can of liqui-moly mos2. I've used it in every engine I've owned for many years.
Maybe that's why none of mine tick.
 
We have two Hemis in our stable now. Neither have any tick. One is a 6.1 with over 100k hard miles and the other is a brand new 14 Ram we just got.

I am certain the issue is an adbv problem, a lifter can also have a tiny fleck of something that lets it leak down.

My prescription? Change the oil and filter, then take that thing out and get on it a bit. My 14 is mechanically silent, truly a wondrous engine IMO...
 
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
could be the ADBV difference that led to the fix??

What specific Wix filter are you using that solved the problem for you??


Your issue sounds like an ADBV issue, so that could be it

I am using Wix 57899/Napa Gold 7899

Here's one I cut open.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: Clevy
K. Whatever man. We've had hemi trucks in our family since 04,and currently there is an 08,a 2010,a2012 and a 2014 in our familial stable,in ram trucks and an 06 rt charger so I do have quite a bit of experience with the 5.7l engine and its capabilities over many hundreds of thousands of miles.
If it does clatter then get out and blow it up so warranty will replace it,otherwise you'll be stuck with a clattery engine for 350000 miles or til you sell it.
My dads 2014 was noisy when new but it was purchased last February so winter was in full effect.
Anyways it's been my experience that noisy or not the hemi is a very long lasting reliable engine,but get whatever concerns you have documented by the dealer just in case.
We've never had an engine problem in any of our hemi engines. The front ends though seem to need complete replacement at or around 200000 miles.


Clevy: I appreciate your inputs and experience. I have no doubt that the 5.7L Hemi is strong and durable. However, I have never had an engine of any kind (and I have owned over 80 vehicles in my life)clatter on start up. My 2014 Ram with the 5.7L does not make a sound on start up (at least not a clattering sound)no matter how long it sits. I want to fix it if on the Challenger if I can. If not, then I will live with it or trade it. I was hoping it might be an oil issue since the factory fill is not full synthetic. Thus the reason for this thread.



Fair enough.
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: wemay
I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?


Agree that I will start with the filter. I will also switch to a full synthetic at the same time. According to multiple sources, switching to a heavier weight oil is not an option. Using anything but 5W-20 will cause problems with the MDS. I also belong to 2 Challenger forums as well. Some of the members swear that changing to a full synthetic (Redline was one example) cured the problem. Others claim that a full synthetic oil made the problem worse. So far, I have discovered no consensus on this issue.




Whoa.
K. Mds and vvt are unaffected by using a thicker grade of oil. I currently have a 0w-40 in my charger,and have been using 40 grades in it for the summer since I acquired it and MDS isn't affected,nor is vvt.

Think about it. An Xw-20 cold is way thicker than an Xw-40 hot,yet the mds and vvt both work just fine when the oil is cold,so please explain.
And don't give me the dodge says so nonsense. There are many reasons dodge wants you to use a 20 grade,not that there's anything wrong with them,it's just that I hear and read all the time on how the hemi needs a 5w-20 for the systems to work which is utter nonsense.
If that were true the vehicles mds and vvt wouldn't work until the oil was up to operating temp,which in the winter can take 30 minutes.
I've proven that mds will engage as soon as I set cruise on flat highway on a cold engine and oil.
And just to be clear my chargers fuel economy is unaffected whether using a 20 grade or a thicker 40 grade. Both grades net me the same fuel consumtion on the highway,and I got my best highway mileage of 31mpg using a 0w-40.
So if I'm capable of getting that kind of mileage and mds isn't working then just imagine what a 20 grade will do.
That whole nonsense of "requiring" a 5w-20 or the mds won't work is nothing more than a scare tactic. All engines are built to run a range of viscosities,not just 1.
Anyway getting back to the 5w-20 grade my 04 got totalled at 280k. It got dealer oil changes every 5000 miles using conventional oil and that truck ran stellar,and didn't consume a drop of oil between changes. So I'm not knocking the 20 grades whatsoever. I've seen many modular ford engines and hemi engines get stratospheric type mileages from the engines using 20 grades all their service lives,I'm just clarifying that a hemi doesn't require a 20 grade for the systems to work.
If that were true the engine would be inoperable until up to operating temp which we know isn't the case.
Truth be told if it is valvetrain then try a can of liqui-moly mos2. I've used it in every engine I've owned for many years.
Maybe that's why none of mine tick.


Up until a couple of weeks ago, I did not know anything about the MDS (still do not know much). Actually the dealer never said anything about oil weight and the MDS. I got that from a lot of posts on various forums. Interesting that you are the first that said oil weight has no impact on the MDS (which would be good news). I saw one technical post that did a pretty good job of explaining the situation. I will try to see if I can find it again.

Tell me more about liquid-moly mos2.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We have two Hemis in our stable now. Neither have any tick. One is a 6.1 with over 100k hard miles and the other is a brand new 14 Ram we just got.

I am certain the issue is an adbv problem, a lifter can also have a tiny fleck of something that lets it leak down.

My prescription? Change the oil and filter, then take that thing out and get on it a bit. My 14 is mechanically silent, truly a wondrous engine IMO...


I am pretty much convinced it is an ADBV issue as well. My 14 Ram is mechanically silent as well.
 
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