Fram Tough Guard - How Many Miles ?
- Thread starter ChrisD46
- Start date
- Status
What is the manufacturer specified OCI/FCI? I would think a TG could easily go two manufacturer spec'd intervals.
Possible? Yeah. Some considerations. TG rated at 10k, you're putting 2k mi more on it. No real biggie.
Still under Kia warranty, run it two ocis puts vehicle warranty at some risk.
No vehicle warranty considerations, then your call with all the information provided.
Still under Kia warranty, run it two ocis puts vehicle warranty at some risk.
No vehicle warranty considerations, then your call with all the information provided.
It is rated for 10k in a clean engine like yours I would expect 12k would be a very doable.
Canister filter? No warranty involved?
Canister filter? No warranty involved?
12K with ease.
It's longer than the filter is rated but totally possible. Dnewton has proved that low end filters can go further than that.
By possible, do you mean advisable? Per their website, it is rated at 10k.
http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-tough-guard-oil-filter.aspx
You're saving what? Two dollars? Why not just upgrade to the Ultra, which can go 15k.
http://www.fram.com/oil-filters/fram-tough-guard-oil-filter.aspx
You're saving what? Two dollars? Why not just upgrade to the Ultra, which can go 15k.
dnewton3
Staff member
Possible? Yes.
Probable? Yes, again.
What I have been able to see is that even normal filters can easily go way further than most think. A 20% extension in this case is no big deal. A well maintained engine should present no issue here.
1) if there were a problem, how would Fram even know how many miles were on the filter? The filter does not have an odometer, right?
2) I find it odd that many folks here will suggest using a "better" (read as larger) filter other than what the filter maker recommends, with zero regard for the warranty issue, but then Heaven forbid one tries to extend the FCI a bit to gain ROI; the Sky is falling! Ironic, is it not? Either warranty is an issue, or not. Can't have it both ways.
Probable? Yes, again.
What I have been able to see is that even normal filters can easily go way further than most think. A 20% extension in this case is no big deal. A well maintained engine should present no issue here.
1) if there were a problem, how would Fram even know how many miles were on the filter? The filter does not have an odometer, right?
2) I find it odd that many folks here will suggest using a "better" (read as larger) filter other than what the filter maker recommends, with zero regard for the warranty issue, but then Heaven forbid one tries to extend the FCI a bit to gain ROI; the Sky is falling! Ironic, is it not? Either warranty is an issue, or not. Can't have it both ways.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Go for it and cut one open. Post your results!
If it has no warranty or if you aren't worried, maybe give an over-sized filter a try if you are able.
Now thats good advice.
If you want go 10K and cut open.... and have a cheaper filter there just to do 2K miles left on the 12K OCI
then post the pics.. IF the filter looks good then you know next time you can go 12K
Go for it and cut one open. Post your results!
If it has no warranty or if you aren't worried, maybe give an over-sized filter a try if you are able.
Now thats good advice.
If you want go 10K and cut open.... and have a cheaper filter there just to do 2K miles left on the 12K OCI
then post the pics.. IF the filter looks good then you know next time you can go 12K
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
On a well maintained V-6 Kia engine which has used synthetic most of it's life - is it possible to run two 6K mile OCI's using synthetic oil with a Fram Tough Guard oil filter ?
NO! One Filter, One OCI!
On a well maintained V-6 Kia engine which has used synthetic most of it's life - is it possible to run two 6K mile OCI's using synthetic oil with a Fram Tough Guard oil filter ?
NO! One Filter, One OCI!
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
On a well maintained V-6 Kia engine which has used synthetic most of it's life - is it possible to run two 6K mile OCI's using synthetic oil with a Fram Tough Guard oil filter ?
NO! One Filter, One OCI!
One Filter, Two OCIs
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
On a well maintained V-6 Kia engine which has used synthetic most of it's life - is it possible to run two 6K mile OCI's using synthetic oil with a Fram Tough Guard oil filter ?
NO! One Filter, One OCI!
One Filter, Two OCIs
Sorry for the delay : '07 Sedona - out of warranty and canister type oil filter (must remove engine shroud first to get to filter) . OK - how about this : 2 OCI's of 5K miles each QSUD 5W20 using a Fram TG canister oil filter ? Engine has seen 5W20 PP most of it's life running 6,500 mile OCI's using NAPA or Kia canister oil filter.
I think you mean 'cartridge' filter for this application. As for your plan, I doubt difference between 5 and 6k will make any significant difference for said filter. And QSUD certainly good for 6k minimum.
Yes , cartridge filter - my bad .
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I think you mean 'cartridge' filter for this application. As for your plan, I doubt difference between 5 and 6k will make any significant difference for said filter. And QSUD certainly good for 6k minimum.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I think you mean 'cartridge' filter for this application. As for your plan, I doubt difference between 5 and 6k will make any significant difference for said filter. And QSUD certainly good for 6k minimum.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I'll say it again...I do not understand going to all the effort of doing an oil change, and not changing the filter.
You put it up, got out a drain pan...take the extra 2-3 minutes to unscrew the filter and put on another!
JMO....
Not changing the filter would result in the following:
1) less time spent
2) less mess made
3) less cost incurred
4) less material waste in a landfill
5) less chance of leaks (every time you break/install a seal is a "new" potential leak - it if wasn't leaking at first, leaving it alone ensures a continued good seal)
And for what risk? Presuming you have an engine that is not a sludger, and is decently maintained, then there is no risk to an FCI extension. By now, there exists plenty of proof of the excellent capacity in most products. Ford proved it in their SAE study, and my data (over 10,000 UOAs in various applications) shows it to be true as well.
Think of the Ford mod-motors in cars and trucks. Long ago, the O/FCI was 5k miles, with 5w-30 and an FL820. But a few years back, the IOLM showed up and there are some conditions that would allow 10k miles, on essentially the same motor, thinner oil and same filter. We've seen the evidence here; UOAs show no adverse effects. Filter dissections show no cause for panic.
Are you harming an engine by changing a filter with every OCI? No. And if you sleep better at night (insert BOF here), so be it. But neither is harm entering into the engine with an FCI extension. So if the engine wear is assured to be in control either way, then it's OK to look outside that parameter for other decision points.
Hence, ROI. Fewer oil changes and less filters consumed. Less waste, same assured protection.
I'll say it again...I do not understand going to all the effort of doing an oil change, and not changing the filter.
You put it up, got out a drain pan...take the extra 2-3 minutes to unscrew the filter and put on another!
JMO....
Not changing the filter would result in the following:
1) less time spent
2) less mess made
3) less cost incurred
4) less material waste in a landfill
5) less chance of leaks (every time you break/install a seal is a "new" potential leak - it if wasn't leaking at first, leaving it alone ensures a continued good seal)
And for what risk? Presuming you have an engine that is not a sludger, and is decently maintained, then there is no risk to an FCI extension. By now, there exists plenty of proof of the excellent capacity in most products. Ford proved it in their SAE study, and my data (over 10,000 UOAs in various applications) shows it to be true as well.
Think of the Ford mod-motors in cars and trucks. Long ago, the O/FCI was 5k miles, with 5w-30 and an FL820. But a few years back, the IOLM showed up and there are some conditions that would allow 10k miles, on essentially the same motor, thinner oil and same filter. We've seen the evidence here; UOAs show no adverse effects. Filter dissections show no cause for panic.
Are you harming an engine by changing a filter with every OCI? No. And if you sleep better at night (insert BOF here), so be it. But neither is harm entering into the engine with an FCI extension. So if the engine wear is assured to be in control either way, then it's OK to look outside that parameter for other decision points.
Hence, ROI. Fewer oil changes and less filters consumed. Less waste, same assured protection.
Last edited:
I will also state that I raised this question originally because my last half dozen oil changes going 6500 miles with M1 , PP , etc. have shown the oil filter to be in good shape (only discolored ) . I am inclined to at least try it once and see how the oil filter looks after two changes at 5K ~ 6K miles OCI each .
- Status
