Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Muffler bearing???
Nope, that's a flux capacitor.
Muffler bearing???
Nope, that's a flux capacitor.
What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do?
- Thread starter TechnoLoGs
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Just for the sake of discussion. Only military use of additives I know of is for tank engines by Yugoslav and Russian army. That information is from my my neighbor who is retired tank officer and some others.
Some form of additive is used for new and serviced engines on T554, T55 and Yugoslav made M84 which is modified T72.
T55 and M84 were made in Yugoslavia with Mercedes Benz licensed diesel engines.
What exactly is used I don't know, it comed in tin cans with nondescript Russian signs.
It's highly likely to be HBN.
Supposedly same thing was sold after 1990 and still is in Bosnia,Serbia and Croatia.
Haven't used it myself but I know for a fact that it was thing of choice for used car salesmen
Some form of additive is used for new and serviced engines on T554, T55 and Yugoslav made M84 which is modified T72.
T55 and M84 were made in Yugoslavia with Mercedes Benz licensed diesel engines.
What exactly is used I don't know, it comed in tin cans with nondescript Russian signs.
It's highly likely to be HBN.
Supposedly same thing was sold after 1990 and still is in Bosnia,Serbia and Croatia.
Haven't used it myself but I know for a fact that it was thing of choice for used car salesmen
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Clevy
GaleHawkins said:The oldest info that I can find on MoS2 in motor oil indicates the first successful usage (did not settle out on shut down) was POST WWII. Any use in WWII would at best been experimental at best.
I have to say from all the reading and the cost I think I am more sold on using the MoS2 additive than the Ceratec nano technology.
You have a point there.
When I use mos2 there is always a measurable benefit,in fuel economy and so on.
But cera-tec thus far hasn't done anything that I have noticed to anything as far as the engine is concerned.
Now I'm not saying cera-tec isn't a good product. I'm sure it's having a positive effect as far as wear and so on it's just that I haven't done a tear down since I've started using it.
Mos2 always delivers a noticeable fuel consumption reduction,which leads me to believe that mos2 might be a better product as far as friction reduction is concerned,it's just that it doesn't last like cera-tec is supposed to.
I've got a few cans left in stock and likely won't buy anymore.
But I'm sticking with my mos2.
I'd be curious to see the TBN retention/boosting properties (if any) of this in a VOA sample with it installed, vs. a 10K+ mile OCI UOA sample, as far as TBN/TAN numbers go.
I tend to think it does more in this area (due to it's high boron content) than in the anti-wear/anti-friction dept., like where most think MOS2 shines (or am I looking at this product {Ceratec} ALL wrong??).
Dailydriver I know from reading about using Ceratec/MoS2/etc it is hard for me to keep my thoughts straight. It has been less than a year since I even learned about nano technology use in motor oil.
Archoil has been selling in to the large engine equipment industry like 1800 HP dump trucks, trains, ships, ect but are now getting into the consumer market. They seem to have a new generation of AR 9300 which sounds to be ahead of Ceratec in a technical sense based on their marketing materials.
Since we have 20+ engines around the place I am looking at buying a gallon of Archoil AR9300 ($200) that will treat like 140 quarts of gas/diesel engine oil and permits tripling the OCI. The how they 3X it is easy to understand if their claims of .003 coefficient of friction is for read for one year.
$6 per year would be the cost to keep the TownCar treated (one use is good for 1 year in engines and 6 years in gear boxes). $120 per year in oil changes if I went to 10K OCI vs the 5K average we now do. Read the 21 slides in the link and see if you think based on their promo materials if AR9300 does not sound more advanced than the current version of Ceratec?
AR9300 from Archoil slide show.
In the end I order Archoil AR9100 and AR6200. I like the lower cost (went with the gallon of AR9100 and quart of AR6200) and still have the nano technology more the age of the Ceratex generation.
While I highly question the value of additives especially when using a top rated oil like Rotella T6 never the less additives can be fun for a gear head.
FYI: Cera tec has been reformulated:
http://www.liqui-moly.com/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/li_en_domb9p8jf2.html
Some selected quotes from the press release:
"The new formulas have made these two additives even more effective."
"Cera Tech and Motor Protect reduce friction in the engine and thus decrease wear. This increases the service life of the engine and helps increase fuel mileage. The Laboratory for Automotive Testing in Landau, Germany has confirmed that even with the old formula, Cera Tec already provided twice the protection in comparison to motor oils without Cera Tec."
http://www.liqui-moly.com/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/li_en_domb9p8jf2.html
Some selected quotes from the press release:
"The new formulas have made these two additives even more effective."
"Cera Tech and Motor Protect reduce friction in the engine and thus decrease wear. This increases the service life of the engine and helps increase fuel mileage. The Laboratory for Automotive Testing in Landau, Germany has confirmed that even with the old formula, Cera Tec already provided twice the protection in comparison to motor oils without Cera Tec."
Quote:
Motor Protect is the preferred additive for those who do not want a solid lubricant in the oil.
Obviously there must have been concerns voiced about solid lubes or they wouldn't be saying this.
In that case why not just use this, which is also from a reputable company and cheaper if someone feels the need.
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
Motor Protect is the preferred additive for those who do not want a solid lubricant in the oil.
Obviously there must have been concerns voiced about solid lubes or they wouldn't be saying this.
In that case why not just use this, which is also from a reputable company and cheaper if someone feels the need.
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
Originally Posted By: Trav
Obviously there must have been concerns voiced about solid lubes or they wouldn't be saying this.
Yes, but is it not so that the main concern with using solid lubes in motor oils is that they could fall out of suspension, agglomerate into larger particles and block the oil filter? If so, Liqui Moly appears to claim that this should not be an issue with Ceratec.
Originally Posted By: Trav
In that case why not just use this, which is also from a reputable company and cheaper if someone feels the need.
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
Have you used this? What exactly is LXE?
Obviously there must have been concerns voiced about solid lubes or they wouldn't be saying this.
Yes, but is it not so that the main concern with using solid lubes in motor oils is that they could fall out of suspension, agglomerate into larger particles and block the oil filter? If so, Liqui Moly appears to claim that this should not be an issue with Ceratec.
Originally Posted By: Trav
In that case why not just use this, which is also from a reputable company and cheaper if someone feels the need.
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-306/LUBEGARD+BIO-TECH+Engine+Oil+Protectant
Have you used this? What exactly is LXE?
I would like to share my (brief) experience with CERA TEC. The vehicle it is being used in is the 2003 S430 with 5.4L AMG engine.
But first, a brief history of oils/additives used in this engine.
I use primarily M1 0w-40, with 25oz of Lubegard Engine protectant, and a MANN fleece filter(OEM). This combo has provided for a very responsive, smooth and cool running engine, as well as incredible gas mileage, up to 25MPG highway, and combined of about 21-22MPG. Also, all of the lubricants in the car are synthetics with appropriate Lubegard additives. Im sure this helps achieve such gas mileage numbers.
For my latest oil change, I wanted to give CERA TEC a try. I purchased 4 bottles on Amazon, to try on my other cars if Im pleased with the trial run. Since the bottle says it treats up to 5 liters of oil, I wanted to consult with Liqui Moly on how much CERA TEC I should use. I emailed the contact email on their website, stating the vehicle I have, and how much oil it takes(8 liters). The gentleman that replied, identifying himself as Application Engineer, said to use 2 bottles of CERA TEC. I took his advise, and used 8 quarts of M1 0w-40 and 2 bottles of the additive. This brought the oil level right to the MAX line on the dipstick. I started the engine, and I noticed a very faint hum coming from the engine, which dissipated after about a minute. I have never heard this hum before. Next thing, obviously, was to take the car for a drive. That evening I drove around 100 miles total. What I observed that first day of driving with CERATEC were noticably higher running temps, around 87-88C while cruising, and over 95-97C while accelerating. The previous temps with Lubegard were lower, around 84-85C while cruising, and around 92-94C under acceleration. Second, the engine responsiveness seemed to have decreased as well. The car just felt somewhat sluggish, it did not feel as lively as it did with previous fills. This had me somewhat worried, so I emailed the gentleman who responded to my email, telling him what was happening after the addition of their additive. He told me that increased temps were not a normal symptom, but what may be happening in my engine, is that the friction modifier chemicals in CERATEC are still reacting, thus causing some friction and that was the reason why my engine ran hotter and less responsive than normal. He also said to give it at least 600 miles/ 1000km for the additive to become fully effective and the temps should come dowm.
Currently, I am about 400 miles into this OCI, and engine temps seem to be slightly lower than initially, but still higher than before the treatment. Also, my MPG has fallen considerably since the treatment, currently, the best I saw at highway speeds is around 22 MPG, while my average has dropped to around 18 MPG.
I dont know what to make of it. I have used ceramic treatments in the past, such as Xado and Friktiontek, on other vehicles, with good results from the start, and never experienced the higher engine temps or decrease in MPG and responsiveness.
I know that Lubegard Engine protectant claims to lower operating temps, could this have been the reason why my engine ran considerably cooler with previous oil/lubegard fills?
But first, a brief history of oils/additives used in this engine.
I use primarily M1 0w-40, with 25oz of Lubegard Engine protectant, and a MANN fleece filter(OEM). This combo has provided for a very responsive, smooth and cool running engine, as well as incredible gas mileage, up to 25MPG highway, and combined of about 21-22MPG. Also, all of the lubricants in the car are synthetics with appropriate Lubegard additives. Im sure this helps achieve such gas mileage numbers.
For my latest oil change, I wanted to give CERA TEC a try. I purchased 4 bottles on Amazon, to try on my other cars if Im pleased with the trial run. Since the bottle says it treats up to 5 liters of oil, I wanted to consult with Liqui Moly on how much CERA TEC I should use. I emailed the contact email on their website, stating the vehicle I have, and how much oil it takes(8 liters). The gentleman that replied, identifying himself as Application Engineer, said to use 2 bottles of CERA TEC. I took his advise, and used 8 quarts of M1 0w-40 and 2 bottles of the additive. This brought the oil level right to the MAX line on the dipstick. I started the engine, and I noticed a very faint hum coming from the engine, which dissipated after about a minute. I have never heard this hum before. Next thing, obviously, was to take the car for a drive. That evening I drove around 100 miles total. What I observed that first day of driving with CERATEC were noticably higher running temps, around 87-88C while cruising, and over 95-97C while accelerating. The previous temps with Lubegard were lower, around 84-85C while cruising, and around 92-94C under acceleration. Second, the engine responsiveness seemed to have decreased as well. The car just felt somewhat sluggish, it did not feel as lively as it did with previous fills. This had me somewhat worried, so I emailed the gentleman who responded to my email, telling him what was happening after the addition of their additive. He told me that increased temps were not a normal symptom, but what may be happening in my engine, is that the friction modifier chemicals in CERATEC are still reacting, thus causing some friction and that was the reason why my engine ran hotter and less responsive than normal. He also said to give it at least 600 miles/ 1000km for the additive to become fully effective and the temps should come dowm.
Currently, I am about 400 miles into this OCI, and engine temps seem to be slightly lower than initially, but still higher than before the treatment. Also, my MPG has fallen considerably since the treatment, currently, the best I saw at highway speeds is around 22 MPG, while my average has dropped to around 18 MPG.
I dont know what to make of it. I have used ceramic treatments in the past, such as Xado and Friktiontek, on other vehicles, with good results from the start, and never experienced the higher engine temps or decrease in MPG and responsiveness.
I know that Lubegard Engine protectant claims to lower operating temps, could this have been the reason why my engine ran considerably cooler with previous oil/lubegard fills?
Originally Posted By: Nenad16
I would like to share my (brief) experience with CERA TEC. The vehicle it is being used in is the 2003 S430 with 5.4L AMG engine.
But first, a brief history of oils/additives used in this engine.
I use primarily M1 0w-40, with 25oz of Lubegard Engine protectant, and a MANN fleece filter(OEM). This combo has provided for a very responsive, smooth and cool running engine, as well as incredible gas mileage, up to 25MPG highway, and combined of about 21-22MPG. Also, all of the lubricants in the car are synthetics with appropriate Lubegard additives. Im sure this helps achieve such gas mileage numbers.
For my latest oil change, I wanted to give CERA TEC a try. I purchased 4 bottles on Amazon, to try on my other cars if Im pleased with the trial run. Since the bottle says it treats up to 5 liters of oil, I wanted to consult with Liqui Moly on how much CERA TEC I should use. I emailed the contact email on their website, stating the vehicle I have, and how much oil it takes(8 liters). The gentleman that replied, identifying himself as Application Engineer, said to use 2 bottles of CERA TEC. I took his advise, and used 8 quarts of M1 0w-40 and 2 bottles of the additive. This brought the oil level right to the MAX line on the dipstick. I started the engine, and I noticed a very faint hum coming from the engine, which dissipated after about a minute. I have never heard this hum before. Next thing, obviously, was to take the car for a drive. That evening I drove around 100 miles total. What I observed that first day of driving with CERATEC were noticably higher running temps, around 87-88C while cruising, and over 95-97C while accelerating. The previous temps with Lubegard were lower, around 84-85C while cruising, and around 92-94C under acceleration. Second, the engine responsiveness seemed to have decreased as well. The car just felt somewhat sluggish, it did not feel as lively as it did with previous fills. This had me somewhat worried, so I emailed the gentleman who responded to my email, telling him what was happening after the addition of their additive. He told me that increased temps were not a normal symptom, but what may be happening in my engine, is that the friction modifier chemicals in CERATEC are still reacting, thus causing some friction and that was the reason why my engine ran hotter and less responsive than normal. He also said to give it at least 600 miles/ 1000km for the additive to become fully effective and the temps should come dowm.
Currently, I am about 400 miles into this OCI, and engine temps seem to be slightly lower than initially, but still higher than before the treatment. Also, my MPG has fallen considerably since the treatment, currently, the best I saw at highway speeds is around 22 MPG, while my average has dropped to around 18 MPG.
I dont know what to make of it. I have used ceramic treatments in the past, such as Xado and Friktiontek, on other vehicles, with good results from the start, and never experienced the higher engine temps or decrease in MPG and responsiveness.
I know that Lubegard Engine protectant claims to lower operating temps, could this have been the reason why my engine ran considerably cooler with previous oil/lubegard fills?
I don't see the increase in temperature as a good thing. You had good luck with the LG product, I'd stick with it. Several of us here including myself feel the LG product is a very good product. From my reading up on it and talking to Trav about it I'd avoid the Ceramic additives. JMO
I would like to share my (brief) experience with CERA TEC. The vehicle it is being used in is the 2003 S430 with 5.4L AMG engine.
But first, a brief history of oils/additives used in this engine.
I use primarily M1 0w-40, with 25oz of Lubegard Engine protectant, and a MANN fleece filter(OEM). This combo has provided for a very responsive, smooth and cool running engine, as well as incredible gas mileage, up to 25MPG highway, and combined of about 21-22MPG. Also, all of the lubricants in the car are synthetics with appropriate Lubegard additives. Im sure this helps achieve such gas mileage numbers.
For my latest oil change, I wanted to give CERA TEC a try. I purchased 4 bottles on Amazon, to try on my other cars if Im pleased with the trial run. Since the bottle says it treats up to 5 liters of oil, I wanted to consult with Liqui Moly on how much CERA TEC I should use. I emailed the contact email on their website, stating the vehicle I have, and how much oil it takes(8 liters). The gentleman that replied, identifying himself as Application Engineer, said to use 2 bottles of CERA TEC. I took his advise, and used 8 quarts of M1 0w-40 and 2 bottles of the additive. This brought the oil level right to the MAX line on the dipstick. I started the engine, and I noticed a very faint hum coming from the engine, which dissipated after about a minute. I have never heard this hum before. Next thing, obviously, was to take the car for a drive. That evening I drove around 100 miles total. What I observed that first day of driving with CERATEC were noticably higher running temps, around 87-88C while cruising, and over 95-97C while accelerating. The previous temps with Lubegard were lower, around 84-85C while cruising, and around 92-94C under acceleration. Second, the engine responsiveness seemed to have decreased as well. The car just felt somewhat sluggish, it did not feel as lively as it did with previous fills. This had me somewhat worried, so I emailed the gentleman who responded to my email, telling him what was happening after the addition of their additive. He told me that increased temps were not a normal symptom, but what may be happening in my engine, is that the friction modifier chemicals in CERATEC are still reacting, thus causing some friction and that was the reason why my engine ran hotter and less responsive than normal. He also said to give it at least 600 miles/ 1000km for the additive to become fully effective and the temps should come dowm.
Currently, I am about 400 miles into this OCI, and engine temps seem to be slightly lower than initially, but still higher than before the treatment. Also, my MPG has fallen considerably since the treatment, currently, the best I saw at highway speeds is around 22 MPG, while my average has dropped to around 18 MPG.
I dont know what to make of it. I have used ceramic treatments in the past, such as Xado and Friktiontek, on other vehicles, with good results from the start, and never experienced the higher engine temps or decrease in MPG and responsiveness.
I know that Lubegard Engine protectant claims to lower operating temps, could this have been the reason why my engine ran considerably cooler with previous oil/lubegard fills?
I don't see the increase in temperature as a good thing. You had good luck with the LG product, I'd stick with it. Several of us here including myself feel the LG product is a very good product. From my reading up on it and talking to Trav about it I'd avoid the Ceramic additives. JMO
Nenad 16 that is interesting and keep us posted. I can hear improvement when running their MoS2 but I know running Ceratec after MoS2 there was no change in MPG that I could record.
We just started trying Archoil AR9100 in a 1989 Ford 429 gas engine in a F700 truck with a 16' flat dump bed. My brother needed help getting his corn out of the field so using six 4x8' sheets of 3/4" Plyform we built a grain box inside of the dirt/gravel sides. This is giving the engine a work out with loads beyond normal.
At this point there is no real before or after stories. After you report I am glad we did not use the Ceratec in it. Archoil AR 9100 is proven by the Ford diesel owners with the injector stiction issue.
We did the Polaris 325 cc test engine with the chewed up crank as I have posted in a few threads. I do think Ceratec does help reduce friction by coating the moving parts from the best I could tell on tear down after 11 hours of fast idle. What I have not proven to myself if the high price of Ceratec is a good value for healthy engines.
I hope the AR9100 reduces friction but my main object is to see if the cleaning power of AR9100 is good for the old engine showing 146K miles that may or may not be correct or even the OEM installed engine. Over all the truck seemed cared for until the prior owner.
When I got it 5 years ago we went with 5W-40 Rotella Synthetic. When we changed it for the first time a couple weeks ago it was dirty but the new oil change is staying bright after about 200 hard miles.
On additives I enjoy messing with them as a hobby but with my background in tool and die work and my research I think they are functionally a waste of money with today's quality of motor oil.
It is true from what I read it takes about 600 miles for products like Ceratec to start working and will just improve up to about the 3500 mile mark. Again keep us posted. At this point I do not think Ceratec will harm most engines. Since you have used so many different kinds of additives I am not sure if your final results would apply to engines seeing the first time use of additives.
We just started trying Archoil AR9100 in a 1989 Ford 429 gas engine in a F700 truck with a 16' flat dump bed. My brother needed help getting his corn out of the field so using six 4x8' sheets of 3/4" Plyform we built a grain box inside of the dirt/gravel sides. This is giving the engine a work out with loads beyond normal.
At this point there is no real before or after stories. After you report I am glad we did not use the Ceratec in it. Archoil AR 9100 is proven by the Ford diesel owners with the injector stiction issue.
We did the Polaris 325 cc test engine with the chewed up crank as I have posted in a few threads. I do think Ceratec does help reduce friction by coating the moving parts from the best I could tell on tear down after 11 hours of fast idle. What I have not proven to myself if the high price of Ceratec is a good value for healthy engines.
I hope the AR9100 reduces friction but my main object is to see if the cleaning power of AR9100 is good for the old engine showing 146K miles that may or may not be correct or even the OEM installed engine. Over all the truck seemed cared for until the prior owner.
When I got it 5 years ago we went with 5W-40 Rotella Synthetic. When we changed it for the first time a couple weeks ago it was dirty but the new oil change is staying bright after about 200 hard miles.
On additives I enjoy messing with them as a hobby but with my background in tool and die work and my research I think they are functionally a waste of money with today's quality of motor oil.
It is true from what I read it takes about 600 miles for products like Ceratec to start working and will just improve up to about the 3500 mile mark. Again keep us posted. At this point I do not think Ceratec will harm most engines. Since you have used so many different kinds of additives I am not sure if your final results would apply to engines seeing the first time use of additives.
Originally Posted By: ChiaroBlue
What exactly is LXE?
That is Lube Gard-speak for their liquid wax ester additive.
Maybe Mola can come on here and explain exactly what type of ester this is, and what it does to improve anything??
What exactly is LXE?
That is Lube Gard-speak for their liquid wax ester additive.
Maybe Mola can come on here and explain exactly what type of ester this is, and what it does to improve anything??
Saved Thread, after reading the first 6 pages.
I will be using this in my new Acura MDX next year when I buy it. But will wait to the odometer hits 2500 miles so that the seals set.
Drain the FF oil at 500 to 550 miles after driving it home from buying it at Vegas (no sales tax). Fill with new FF oil and Bosch filter. Send UOA to Blackstone.
2nd OCI will be at 1500 miles with new FF oil and Bosch filter. I'll drain-fill with FF oil for two reasons: 1) get all the [censored] out from the assembly line out, and 2) so seals properly set with FF oil. Send UOA to Blackstone.
At 2,500 I will use synthetic from my stash and add Ceratec.
I will be using this in my new Acura MDX next year when I buy it. But will wait to the odometer hits 2500 miles so that the seals set.
Drain the FF oil at 500 to 550 miles after driving it home from buying it at Vegas (no sales tax). Fill with new FF oil and Bosch filter. Send UOA to Blackstone.
2nd OCI will be at 1500 miles with new FF oil and Bosch filter. I'll drain-fill with FF oil for two reasons: 1) get all the [censored] out from the assembly line out, and 2) so seals properly set with FF oil. Send UOA to Blackstone.
At 2,500 I will use synthetic from my stash and add Ceratec.
That may be too early for the Ceratec.
Originally Posted By: GaleHawkins
650 mile trip in the Towncar this week averaged 24 MPH and we hit 7K on the Ceratec fill. It now has been topped of twice with M1 MH 10W-40 so that is half a gallon when it specs 5W-20 so that could hurt mileage a tad perhaps.
Do you mean '24 MPG' by any chance?
Also could the user of Ceratec and/or Mos2 posted their change in MPG in % please (if any). Thanks.
650 mile trip in the Towncar this week averaged 24 MPH and we hit 7K on the Ceratec fill. It now has been topped of twice with M1 MH 10W-40 so that is half a gallon when it specs 5W-20 so that could hurt mileage a tad perhaps.
Do you mean '24 MPG' by any chance?
Also could the user of Ceratec and/or Mos2 posted their change in MPG in % please (if any). Thanks.
Also any follow up experiences to share about Ceratec? i am thinking of the post from Nenad16 and other users.
If you have had negative and/or neutral experiences please also share.
If you have had negative and/or neutral experiences please also share.
Originally Posted By: 285south
I will be using this in my new Acura MDX next year when I buy it. But will wait to the odometer hits 2500 miles so that the seals set.
Drain the FF oil at 500 to 550 miles after driving it home from buying it at Vegas (no sales tax).
Off-topic: When you register your new MDX in your state of residence, they will notice you got it out of state, and they will notice its from Nevada, and they will charge you "special tax" and collect it themselves, all because they don't want people doing what you're doing.
On Ceratec, I don't know how anybody can really tell its working. I did put some in my sumps, but just can't prove it works.
I will be using this in my new Acura MDX next year when I buy it. But will wait to the odometer hits 2500 miles so that the seals set.
Drain the FF oil at 500 to 550 miles after driving it home from buying it at Vegas (no sales tax).
Off-topic: When you register your new MDX in your state of residence, they will notice you got it out of state, and they will notice its from Nevada, and they will charge you "special tax" and collect it themselves, all because they don't want people doing what you're doing.
On Ceratec, I don't know how anybody can really tell its working. I did put some in my sumps, but just can't prove it works.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
That may be too early for the Ceratec.
Tough to say. It creates a very hard surface from the heat and pressure and is supposed to eliminate metal contact.
Unlike mos2 when I use it I see no benefits in fuel consumption
The company stands behind it though and will answer any question you ask them and I've found that every other product they make works as advertised.
Tough call.
That may be too early for the Ceratec.
Tough to say. It creates a very hard surface from the heat and pressure and is supposed to eliminate metal contact.
Unlike mos2 when I use it I see no benefits in fuel consumption
The company stands behind it though and will answer any question you ask them and I've found that every other product they make works as advertised.
Tough call.
285south:
I've broke-in 5 - 6 new vehicles and have had excellent results in doing the following with MoS2 and Cera Tec:
1. Early LOF changes at 500, 1,500, 3,000, 6,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 miles.
2. No MoS2 until 10,000 to allow rings to fully seat.
3. No Cera Tec until 15,000 to ensure engine is fully broke-in.
4. Early FF changes in the transmission and/or differentials at 5,000 with synthetic fluids.
MoS2 has given a 2 mpg gain in most vehicles, while Cera Tec has not (I believe it forms a hard bearier as Clevy has said).
I've broke-in 5 - 6 new vehicles and have had excellent results in doing the following with MoS2 and Cera Tec:
1. Early LOF changes at 500, 1,500, 3,000, 6,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 miles.
2. No MoS2 until 10,000 to allow rings to fully seat.
3. No Cera Tec until 15,000 to ensure engine is fully broke-in.
4. Early FF changes in the transmission and/or differentials at 5,000 with synthetic fluids.
MoS2 has given a 2 mpg gain in most vehicles, while Cera Tec has not (I believe it forms a hard bearier as Clevy has said).
Originally Posted By: SR1919
Also any follow up experiences to share about Ceratec? i am thinking of the post from Nenad16 and other users.
If you have had negative and/or neutral experiences please also share.
Goog thing I caught this thread. Here is my update.
I am at 3000 miles into the OCI/CERATEC treatment. The average MPG has improved somewhat(20MPG), but it is still lower than previously with Lubegard(22MPG). The throttle response seems to have returned to the level as with Lubegard, but thats kind of hard to gauge at this point. As for the engine temps, they seem to be slightly lower than initially, but they are still higher than before when I used Lubegard. Also, the look of oil has changed from creamy, opaque(due to CERATEC) to nearly normal/clear, probably because CERATEC has been depleted from oil and has been applied to metal surfaces.
I will stick with my usual OCI of 5K miles, and will update you guys at that time.
Also any follow up experiences to share about Ceratec? i am thinking of the post from Nenad16 and other users.
If you have had negative and/or neutral experiences please also share.
Goog thing I caught this thread. Here is my update.
I am at 3000 miles into the OCI/CERATEC treatment. The average MPG has improved somewhat(20MPG), but it is still lower than previously with Lubegard(22MPG). The throttle response seems to have returned to the level as with Lubegard, but thats kind of hard to gauge at this point. As for the engine temps, they seem to be slightly lower than initially, but they are still higher than before when I used Lubegard. Also, the look of oil has changed from creamy, opaque(due to CERATEC) to nearly normal/clear, probably because CERATEC has been depleted from oil and has been applied to metal surfaces.
I will stick with my usual OCI of 5K miles, and will update you guys at that time.
noticed the same effect, clear oil after 1K miles.
BTW, I may do repeat this information or someone did :
so, ceratec marketing as ceramic additives in fact nothing to do with ceramic particles, but, yes, it solid lubricants.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LiquiMoly_Cera_Tec_Specificartions.pdf
Micro ceramic solid lubricant suspension based on hexagonal boron nitride (BN) in mineral oil. The laminar graphite - similar structure reduces friction and wear and prevents direct metal-to-metal contact. The < 0.5m particle size guarantees optimal filter flow properties and protects against depositing of solid lubricant particles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_nitride
The hexagonal form corresponding to graphite is the most stable and softest among BN polymorphs, and is therefore used as a lubricant and an additive to cosmetic products.
From the same article where "ceramic" word appears on marketing waves:
The cubic (sphalerite structure) variety analogous to diamond is called c-BN. Its hardness is inferior only to diamond, but its thermal and chemical stability is superior. The rare wurtzite BN modification is similar to lonsdaleite and may even be harder than the cubic form.
so LM moly or LM ceratec, technically the same kind of solid lubricants, molybdenum, or boron
The coefficient of friction for mos around 0.2-0.16 and NB 0.22-0.25, technically the same, a difference: NB is much more stable in high temperature.
due to both maerial working on the same principle, I'm doubt ceratec has 50K post effect.
some studies back 99; Wear, Volume 232, Issue 2, October 1999, Pages 199–206 Boron nitride as a lubricant additive; Yoshitsugu Kimuraa, , Toshiaki Wakabayashia, Kazumi Okadab, Tetsuya Wadac, Hiroshi Nishikawad
Hexagonal boron nitride (BN) has a graphite-like lamellar structure, but has been considered less effective than other solid lubricants except for high-temperature applications. The present paper describes a series of sliding experiments which show somewhat curious behavior of BN when added to lubricating oil, and discusses their results by comparing with the results of observation and analysis of sliding surfaces. In the case of sliding of bearing steel vs. itself, BN slightly increased the coefficient of friction, but dramatically decreased wear. Boron was found to remain on the surfaces, but the remnant was almost oxidized; it was some sort of oxide but not stoichiometric. If bearing steel was slid against cast iron, BN decreased the coefficient of friction, but the decrease in wear was less marked, and the remnant in this case was mostly BN. These results show that BN is effective in reducing wear if used as a lubricant additive.
bottom line; save engine - nb ; save gasoline -mos2
BTW, I may do repeat this information or someone did :
so, ceratec marketing as ceramic additives in fact nothing to do with ceramic particles, but, yes, it solid lubricants.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LiquiMoly_Cera_Tec_Specificartions.pdf
Micro ceramic solid lubricant suspension based on hexagonal boron nitride (BN) in mineral oil. The laminar graphite - similar structure reduces friction and wear and prevents direct metal-to-metal contact. The < 0.5m particle size guarantees optimal filter flow properties and protects against depositing of solid lubricant particles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_nitride
The hexagonal form corresponding to graphite is the most stable and softest among BN polymorphs, and is therefore used as a lubricant and an additive to cosmetic products.
From the same article where "ceramic" word appears on marketing waves:
The cubic (sphalerite structure) variety analogous to diamond is called c-BN. Its hardness is inferior only to diamond, but its thermal and chemical stability is superior. The rare wurtzite BN modification is similar to lonsdaleite and may even be harder than the cubic form.
so LM moly or LM ceratec, technically the same kind of solid lubricants, molybdenum, or boron
The coefficient of friction for mos around 0.2-0.16 and NB 0.22-0.25, technically the same, a difference: NB is much more stable in high temperature.
due to both maerial working on the same principle, I'm doubt ceratec has 50K post effect.
some studies back 99; Wear, Volume 232, Issue 2, October 1999, Pages 199–206 Boron nitride as a lubricant additive; Yoshitsugu Kimuraa, , Toshiaki Wakabayashia, Kazumi Okadab, Tetsuya Wadac, Hiroshi Nishikawad
Hexagonal boron nitride (BN) has a graphite-like lamellar structure, but has been considered less effective than other solid lubricants except for high-temperature applications. The present paper describes a series of sliding experiments which show somewhat curious behavior of BN when added to lubricating oil, and discusses their results by comparing with the results of observation and analysis of sliding surfaces. In the case of sliding of bearing steel vs. itself, BN slightly increased the coefficient of friction, but dramatically decreased wear. Boron was found to remain on the surfaces, but the remnant was almost oxidized; it was some sort of oxide but not stoichiometric. If bearing steel was slid against cast iron, BN decreased the coefficient of friction, but the decrease in wear was less marked, and the remnant in this case was mostly BN. These results show that BN is effective in reducing wear if used as a lubricant additive.
bottom line; save engine - nb ; save gasoline -mos2
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DrAdmin, Great summary. I like that "dramatically decreased wear" result from the Japanese study. Makes me want to use Ceratec...
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