High copper in UOA - 2013 Nissan VQ35DE

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Hi,

Copper 164 PPM, everything else all within or below universal averages.

Blackstone noted the high copper, universal ave. is 6 PPM and said it is probably nothing to worry about, should flush out... but I thought I'd ask here for your insights.

Background: 2013 Nissan Maxima SV with the VQ35DE. I purchased when it was 1 year old & 23,000km. My selling Nissan dealer did LOF service, used Mobil 1000 5W30, I let this stay in engine 1800km and then changed oil and filter myself. I used Wix filter and Pennzoil Ultimate Synthetic 5W30. Reason for short OCI: I wanted the engine to be purged of possible sludge or anthing residual from past owner neglect.

I ran the Pennz Ult 5W30 for 6 months, dumped out when it had 5,760km. Collected UOA sample from this change. No, I don't do a bunch of driving :eek:)

Engine runs fine, I have no real way of confirming how many oil changes the car had before I purchased, but it did have aftermarket oil filter when the dealer did the LOF at the date of purchase. Worst case, 1 oil change after factory fill.

I belong to Maxima.org, and that place has made me slightly worried about bearing knock issues with the VQ35DE engine...complete engines, shortblocks, or just conn rod bearing changes done under warranty with a Nissan TSB for diagnosis and re&re. Scarier than I want to witness under my hood :eek:(

Blackstone indicates that Cu can take a while to flush out of engine from new, but bearings shedding this much at 30,500km seems weird?

Am I too worried?

Yes, I will do annual UOA to monitor the Cu levels, especially while still under powertrain warranty.

Thanks again for your considered opinions.
 
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sounds worrying, over 100copper on an engine with 30000 miles?

No additives were used?

Is there a link to the UOA?
 
I would lose sleep over that for sure. Cooper in that engine should only be from bearings. Do you live anywhere close to me? If you did I have a nice shop and could help you out. my little mr18de engine gets only the best oil. Not the same as yours obviously but yours needs good oil even more than mine.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
sounds worrying, over 100copper on an engine with 30000 miles?

No additives were used?

Is there a link to the UOA?


It's 30,000 KM not miles. That translates to less than 20,000 miles. Although high, it sounds more like break-in wear to me.
 
Originally Posted By: abycat
You should also post the uoa in case there is something you missed that we could help you with. like coolant or excess fuel.


Posting the UOA can be difficult at BITOG from the sticky I read here..

Antifreeze was 0.0%
Water was 0.0%
Fuel was less than 0.5%
 
I forgot it was in km. Lots of people on here post in miles so I usually think in miles. And before your location only said Canada. Or I'm seeing things. I'm actually thinking it might still be break in materials. If next uoa isn't better or is worse then I would worry.
 
Firstly, Sounds like a retest is in order.

Cold winters and moisture in the oil can bring this up but not super high.

Anything micofine to not be captive in the oil filter is likely a result of chemical chelation not abrasive wear.

Maybe try an oil with boron antioxidant compounds over 200ppm VO.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
1. Upload the file to Imgur or Tinypic.

2. Post the provided link for forums.


Imgur or Picasa or Flickr NOT tinypic
 
Oil cooler?

You need to do a UOA for every oil change until you figure this out. Go 5000 to 7000 miles on synthetic oil.

I have Cu in the oil on my Jeep and am still in investigating mode.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Oil is thin.
9.3cst is the lower limit of a 30 grade.
And 25-50% 0w40 or 5w40 and see what happens.




Would it be valid to leave the freshly changed oil alone (Pennzoil Plat 5W30) until next sampling @ changing, have it tested and then see the Cu levels before introducing 5W40?
 
Wow, only 3500 miles on the oil already sheared out of grade? I thought Pennzoil Ultra could do much better than that? There must be something wrong with the oil that cause the bearing wear.
 
Originally Posted By: 00Max00
Wow, only 3500 miles on the oil already sheared out of grade? I thought Pennzoil Ultra could do much better than that? There must be something wrong with the oil that cause the bearing wear.


The copper source is TBD. The research I've done so far suggests that if the bearings were worn down to the copper...there would be also high ppm of lead or nickle as these metals are overlays for the copper. The UOA doesn't show these other metals in worrying amounts.

The oil cooler might be a source, but I think this is unlikely as the standard Nissan VQ35DE oil cooler is just a puck style transfer element with coolant circulation at the oil filter, not a separate mini radiator that might contain copper tubes.

So I go on driving, test again and see if the next results are better for Cu. I am going to ask Blackstone if their experience shows that Pennzoil Ultimate Synthetic 5W30 typically shows so much shear in so little milage. Perhaps...they mixed up my sample with someone's that was actually a 5W20 ??

In the meantime, the engine runs very well, no noises, good fuel economy, no burning of oil and I have the bumper-to-bumper warranty for another 28,000 km and the powertrain warranty for another 68,000 km or 3.5 years to go.
 
PU shouldn't have Sodium in the add pack, should it? No potassium indicated, so maybe not a coolant issue but I'd still have that possibility in the back of my mind.

Is the coolant level dropping?
 
Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
PU shouldn't have Sodium in the add pack, should it? No potassium indicated, so maybe not a coolant issue but I'd still have that possibility in the back of my mind.

Is the coolant level dropping?


No loss of coolant, the UOA showed no coolant contamination either.

Weird eh?
 
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