dedicated snows vs all seasons

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been batting this around past few days...maybe you guys can help me decide one way or another. vehicle is a 2004 santa fe 4wd. current all seasons are goodyear fortera, with about 5/32 left. i've read they are decent in the snow. location is NEPA, so winters can be harsh. i only drive 10 miles one way to work, but it's up and down a mountain. tirerack has a combo set i was considering. bfgoodrich KS1 winter slalom, 77 each, and basic rims at 94 each. totals out at 800 and i have a set of rims for easy changing. or stick with the all seasons and replace when needed (i'm not replacing them at 5/32). last winter i drove a RWD ford ranger (with bad shocks at the time) up and down this mountain on all seasons, and while i never got into an accident, it was pretty nerve racking. part of me thinks considering i can drive a [censored] rwd, the 4wd and all seasons should be enough and i can save myself the 800$ investment and just buy new all seasons at some point next year... part of wants to err on the side of being prepared to drive through anything...i also went with just liability ins coverage to save some duckets, so the dedicated snows could be considered self insurance...

looking for viewpoints i guess. seems every other day i "decide" lol
 
I also live in NEPA so I know where you are coming from. Around here even more than most places A/S vs. winter tires depends on a bunch of factors.

Do you live in the lower elevations, either the Valley cities near Scranton/W-B or the lower Poconos near Stroudsburg? If so you are much better off than folks in the hills. OTOH, the top of the Pocono Plateau can be like the surface of the moon.

How good are the roads you drive on? How well are they plowed and treated? Just how steep is the hill you mention? Do you need to drive at night or before dawn for work, and do you 'have' to get to work no matter the weather?

I got dedicated winter tires this year and it adds to my comfort level. I am somewhere in the middle based on the variables listed above. The past two winters I got by with Hankook H727s. The first year was no problem at all, as they were brand new at the time and winter was not too bad. Last year was another story---but I still never felt it was dangerous; just needed to go very slow and be very careful.

Even though the H727s were very good for an A/S in the snow, as promised, I like the idea of having dedicated winter tires all-round. Just in case....so I would say if you can comfortably afford winter tires, you should go for it.

What size wheels and tires are we talking about here? Guys here might have some good suggestions.
 
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
are chains even legal to drive on public roads? i won't be putting any chains on my car.

No. Chains are only legal on private property or during an emergency (I think emergency is defined as being stuck, or temporary severe weather conditions. The operative words there being temporary and severe.)

Having had a dedicated set of snow tires for more than one car, I can tell you there is no substitute for snow tires. At least on my vehicles it changed traction and handling substantially. Also, I believe in the PA/WV area states studded tires are permitted in the winter.
 
Originally Posted By: faramir9
I also live in NEPA so I know where you are coming from. Around here even more than most places A/S vs. winter tires depends on a bunch of factors.

Do you live in the lower elevations, either the Valley cities near Scranton/W-B or the lower Poconos near Stroudsburg? If so you are much better off than folks in the hills. OTOH, the top of the Pocono Plateau can be like the surface of the moon.

How good are the roads you drive on? How well are they plowed and treated? Just how steep is the hill you mention? Do you need to drive at night or before dawn for work, and do you 'have' to get to work no matter the weather?

I got dedicated winter tires this year and it adds to my comfort level. I am somewhere in the middle based on the variables listed above. The past two winters I got by with Hankook H727s. The first year was no problem at all, as they were brand new at the time and winter was not too bad. Last year was another story---but I still never felt it was dangerous; just needed to go very slow and be very careful.

Even though the H727s were very good for an A/S in the snow, as promised, I like the idea of having dedicated winter tires all-round. Just in case....so I would say if you can comfortably afford winter tires, you should go for it.

What size wheels and tires are we talking about here? Guys here might have some good suggestions.








i live in the hills. milford pa. some of the hills and turns on the mountain are pretty steep and blind. my job isn't exactly demanding. i work in the service industry, so in bad weather we are slow and it may be the case they don't even need me anyway, so called off.far from a "have to get to work" situation. my oem tire size is 225/70/16. last winter was a doozy, chances are it won't be that bad again. or it might, never know. it wouldn't be too uncomfortable to pony up for dedicated snows, but i'm a cheap sob!
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
are chains even legal to drive on public roads? i won't be putting any chains on my car.

Apparently recommended by the PA DOT in areas where it snows heavily, but it's a bit hard to figure out when they're OK to use. I've seen some info that claims that there's a period where chains can be used, but from what I see that only applies to studs or "ice grips" - whatever those are.

Quote:
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter45.pdf

§ 4525. Tire equipment and traction surfaces.

(d) Tire chains.--Tire chains may be temporarily used on vehicles during periods of snow and ice emergency if they are in conformance with regulations promulgated by the department.


It sounds like it's OK to use them and they recommend carrying them in order to extricate a vehicle that would otherwise remain stuck.
 
Originally Posted By: tinmanSC
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
are chains even legal to drive on public roads? i won't be putting any chains on my car.

No. Chains are only legal on private property or during an emergency (I think emergency is defined as being stuck, or temporary severe weather conditions. The operative words there being temporary and severe.)

Having had a dedicated set of snow tires for more than one car, I can tell you there is no substitute for snow tires. At least on my vehicles it changed traction and handling substantially. Also, I believe in the PA/WV area states studded tires are permitted in the winter.



studs are legal here after a certain date, up until a certain date (not sure what the dates are). i think studs and chains are a bit overkill for my situation.
 
An option to consider is getting these mid-tier Hankook winter tires on sale from DTD: http://is.gd/7KjC98

install locally, run them all winter and save the all-seasons to run down next spring/summer.
 
Originally Posted By: faramir9
An option to consider is getting these mid-tier Hankook winter tires on sale from DTD: http://is.gd/7KjC98

install locally, run them all winter and save the all-seasons to run down next spring/summer.


if i change out to winters on my oem rims, i might as well get the bfgoodrich KSI at 77$ from tirerack. they are reviewed pretty well. my biggest concern with that is all the extra charges from remounting etc twice a year. after a couple of seasons the costs exceeds that of just buying an extra set of rims.
 
Though not a guarantee, this coming winter is supposed to be a dussy! I would prepare myself for the worst. The worst may only be a few days of treachery but personally, I'd want to be ready!

My daughter lives & works in Central PA(State College) and drive the Mazda 3 in my signature(in which Dad/me, maintains) for here job. Her route takes her around the mountains.

When living in NY State, she too had used Hankook Optimo H727's and they were OK for the first few years in flattish, Rochester, Buffalo, Niagara Falls but, not PA.

She's now using for the winter ONLY:
General AltiMAX Arctic and they seemed to work well on this light FWD sedan, in last years winter(2013-14).
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
Originally Posted By: faramir9
I also live in NEPA so I know where you are coming from. Around here even more than most places A/S vs. winter tires depends on a bunch of factors.

Do you live in the lower elevations, either the Valley cities near Scranton/W-B or the lower Poconos near Stroudsburg? If so you are much better off than folks in the hills. OTOH, the top of the Pocono Plateau can be like the surface of the moon.

How good are the roads you drive on? How well are they plowed and treated? Just how steep is the hill you mention? Do you need to drive at night or before dawn for work, and do you 'have' to get to work no matter the weather?

I got dedicated winter tires this year and it adds to my comfort level. I am somewhere in the middle based on the variables listed above. The past two winters I got by with Hankook H727s. The first year was no problem at all, as they were brand new at the time and winter was not too bad. Last year was another story---but I still never felt it was dangerous; just needed to go very slow and be very careful.

Even though the H727s were very good for an A/S in the snow, as promised, I like the idea of having dedicated winter tires all-round. Just in case....so I would say if you can comfortably afford winter tires, you should go for it.

What size wheels and tires are we talking about here? Guys here might have some good suggestions.








i live in the hills. milford pa. some of the hills and turns on the mountain are pretty steep and blind. my job isn't exactly demanding. i work in the service industry, so in bad weather we are slow and it may be the case they don't even need me anyway, so called off.far from a "have to get to work" situation. my oem tire size is 225/70/16. last winter was a doozy, chances are it won't be that bad again. or it might, never know. it wouldn't be too uncomfortable to pony up for dedicated snows, but i'm a cheap sob!
wink.gif



We had a house in Milford for about 14 years, which we sold several years ago, and I'm still kicking myself. Anyway all we owned at the time was RWD vehicles and a FWD car briefly. I can tell you dedicated snow tires on those windy hilly roads were worth their weight in gold. If you can afford them now, buy them now.
 
To the OP(chado_skins), keep in mind that other online tire stores also have packages that you can buy or create yourself. And, there may be some money savings as well by shopping around at Discount Tire Direct or Treaddepot.
 
Chain and stud laws vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. The state DOT plow trucks here run them, and I've seen them on UPS trucks!

All that said, the best thing about snow tires is they add predictibility to driving. The "rules" like turning into a skid actually work with snows, as they bite going sideways. With many all seasons, once you break traction, going from static to sliding friction, things get much worse and aren't recoverable.

We all know that dope at our work on lousy tires who shows up late and complains how really bad it is out there. Don't be that dope!
laugh.gif
 
I've had experience with Forteras and snow tires (Blizzak DM-V1). The Forteras, when new, were OK in the snow, but as they got down there, they were not impressive at all.

The DM-V1s were miles ahead of the used Forteras, and decently ahead of the new Forteras. For me, it was easily worth the slight bit of extra money (remember the only "extra" cost you really have is the per-mile extra wear and mounting fees) for the improved snow traction.
 
Originally Posted By: chado_skins
Originally Posted By: faramir9
An option to consider is getting these mid-tier Hankook winter tires on sale from DTD: http://is.gd/7KjC98

install locally, run them all winter and save the all-seasons to run down next spring/summer.


if i change out to winters on my oem rims, i might as well get the bfgoodrich KSI at 77$ from tirerack. they are reviewed pretty well. my biggest concern with that is all the extra charges from remounting etc twice a year. after a couple of seasons the costs exceeds that of just buying an extra set of rims.

Talk to your local installer to see about the remounting cost. Discount Tire around here will remount and balance your tires free, as long as you bought both sets from them, or at least paid for the balance. Some places will even store the extra set for you; probably for a fee.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
I run M&S tires on my Jeep year round. The rubber compound is an all season rubber, but the tread is aggressive like a true snow tire.

Just some caution here. Because a tread looks aggressive doesn't mean it will perform as well as a true rated snow tire. Feel the tread of a newer snow tire when it is cold vs. your tread. New snows will feel soft and pliable with many small sipes, not so much on your tire. Check out the Michelin Xice 3 or Bridgestone WS-80. You will see what I mean.
 
Dedicated snows! No question. The safety of yourself, the safety of your vehicle and others is in your hands. Make the safe choice!


Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Though not a guarantee, this coming winter is supposed to be a dussy! I would prepare myself for the worst. The worst may only be a few days of treachery but personally, I'd want to be ready!

My daughter lives & works in Central PA(State College) and drive the Mazda 3 in my signature(in which Dad/me, maintains) for here job. Her route takes her around the mountains.

When living in NY State, she too had used Hankook Optimo H727's and they were OK for the first few years in flattish, Rochester, Buffalo, Niagara Falls but, not PA.

She's now using for the winter ONLY:
General AltiMAX Arctic and they seemed to work well on this light FWD sedan, in last years winter(2013-14).



Last winter was pretty strong. In a way, I kind of want this one to be as well! Not that far north of me, they got 5-6' (feet, not inches) of snow in one or two different snow events. If the lake effect band was much different, it would have been on me!

Originally Posted By: Danno
Originally Posted By: Donald
I run M&S tires on my Jeep year round. The rubber compound is an all season rubber, but the tread is aggressive like a true snow tire.

Just some caution here. Because a tread looks aggressive doesn't mean it will perform as well as a true rated snow tire. Feel the tread of a newer snow tire when it is cold vs. your tread. New snows will feel soft and pliable with many small sipes, not so much on your tire. Check out the Michelin Xice 3 or Bridgestone WS-80. You will see what I mean.


Depends on the tire. I will be using Nokian Vatiiva on my Cherokee this winter - EXCELLENT in snow and ice for an all season.

Last winter I ran a set of goodyear workhorse studded. Pretty bad on slippery surfaces until I added sipes with a knife.
 
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