Do you burn oil? UOA show antifreeze/fuel?

[Guitarmageddon]

So I did my first interval of M1 0w40 after religiously using lubro moly 5w40. I sent my first analysis to blackstone and the results are HERE

I did see if they could offer much insight as to why the burning occured on the m1 0w40 vs the LM 5w40. The best I can do is run another OCI

My question, though, is about the antifreeze/gasoline in oil numbers.

Would that be a backdoor way of seeing a PORTION of compression/leakdown without doing the full test? An indicator of engine wear? It does indicate certain seals/gaskets failing, right? Thoughts? If your car burns oil, do you have anecdotal evidence of it showing higher counts in those areas vs a car that doesnt burn oil?

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon
My question, though, is about the antifreeze/gasoline in oil numbers.

Not sure what you're seeing, looking at your UOA I see no fuel or antifreeze in there.

Also not sure why you're concerned with it burning oil. 1/2 a quart in 3,500 miles sounds great to me.

Perhaps any of the oil loss is because maybe you short trip this car? I only assume you short trip because 57k miles on a 2007 isn't much.

 

[901Memphis]

Nothing wrong with that UOA. I wouldn't worry abuout it OR change what oil i was using, its clearly working well. If anything i would considering leaving the oil in for much longer.

 

[Guitarmageddon]

No, I know my UOA is good. I bought the car at 32,000 in August of 2012. Stored it while I was in Afghanistan thru Feb of 2013 and have driven it roughly 1,000 miles per month.

It was just a sidebar question, I got to thinking about it while looking at the UOA. I raised an issue with burning because it only burned on my first ever interval in a 0w40.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Also not sure why you're concerned with it burning oil. 1/2 a quart in 3,500 miles sounds great to me.

This is nothing to be proud of. Not awful, but so-so. But I would not expect excellent results from silumin engine blocks.

Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon

Would that be a backdoor way of seeing a PORTION of compression/leakdown without doing the full test?

I bet that compression in your engine is about 30% higher than it should be. Reason is simple: this is an "oil compression". Also if the coolant level is stable, I would not worry too much. You UOA does not show coolant leaks too. And, please, don't rely on this UOA from engine wearing point of view: it does not show anything you could trust.

Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon
An indicator of engine wear?

No.
Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon
It does indicate certain seals/gaskets failing, right?

No, if you don't see coolant in the oil.

Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon
If your car burns oil, do you have anecdotal evidence of it showing higher counts in those areas vs a car that doesnt burn oil?

No. Because the main reason of oil burning is not a piston ring wearing, but clogging oil drainages. As far as I know silumin engine blocks of "germans" (Audi and BMW) tends to consume oil.
For your car I would recommend to stay with Liqui Moly oils, my favorite is their 0W40. Use Liqui Moly engine flush each time when you change oil. Otherwise you'll have a quart of oil per 1000 miles. And many, really many people here will convince you that this is fine. Sure, this is fine for them: you will be paying for new catalytic, not they.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon
No, I know my UOA is good. I bought the car at 32,000 in August of 2012. Stored it while I was in Afghanistan thru Feb of 2013 and have driven it roughly 1,000 miles per month.

It was just a sidebar question, I got to thinking about it while looking at the UOA. I raised an issue with burning because it only burned on my first ever interval in a 0w40.


The consumption should taper off. It is common to have some consumption when switching between brands.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The consumption should taper off. It is common to have some consumption when switching between brands.

Could you explain this phenomenon?

 

[Guitarmageddon]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The consumption should taper off. It is common to have some consumption when switching between brands.

Could you explain this phenomenon?


Ive read that one brand/grade may have more/less of additives that collect in certain places, and changing brand/grade "flushes" them out and causes oil to be consumed. (until the new oil has time to rebuild those areas)

Kind of like stop leak is supposed to work? Is this the right logic?

 

[Whimsey]

Don't know the real reason why but in my case the first oil change with Mobil 1 usually resulted in some minor oil usage where the previous oil used none. However with the second use of Mobil 1 the oil usage stopped in all the engines I did this with. These were 3 Ford engines. It didn't matter what the previous oil was. All the engines were well maintained from new and real clean when looking through the oil fill into the head.

Whimsey

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon

Ive read that one brand/grade may have more/less of additives that collect in certain places, and changing brand/grade "flushes" them out and causes oil to be consumed. (until the new oil has time to rebuild those areas)
Kind of like stop leak is supposed to work? Is this the right logic?

No, logic should be opposite.
The reason of oil consumption is clogged oil drainages and/or wrong piston rings tention or design. First is much more frequesnt, but second is taken place too. So if oil would "flush" something, the consumption would go down, but not up. Big drainage hole -> less consumption or no visible consumption at all.
I could accept the explanation that Mobil1 0W40 is more volatile than other oils. So being poured on the first time it is just being consumed easily. But then it cleans oil passages, so consumption reduces. But, one more time, I am not sure if this is a correct explanation.
Heavy high mileage oils works completely opposite. They are much less volatile, so consumption reduces. But also I am not sure if they can clean piston areas as good as Mobil1 does.

 

[Guitarmageddon]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon

Ive read that one brand/grade may have more/less of additives that collect in certain places, and changing brand/grade "flushes" them out and causes oil to be consumed. (until the new oil has time to rebuild those areas)
Kind of like stop leak is supposed to work? Is this the right logic?

No, logic should be opposite.
The reason of oil consumption is clogged oil drainages and/or wrong piston rings tention or design. First is much more frequesnt, but second is taken place too. So if oil would "flush" something, the consumption would go down, but not up. Big drainage hole -> less consumption or no visible consumption at all.
I could accept the explanation that Mobil1 0W40 is more volatile than other oils. So being poured on the first time it is just being consumed easily. But then it cleans oil passages, so consumption reduces. But, one more time, I am not sure if this is a correct explanation.
Heavy high mileage oils works completely opposite. They are much less volatile, so consumption reduces. But also I am not sure if they can clean piston areas as good as Mobil1 does.


Hmm, very interesting. thanks for the response

 

[CELICA_XX]

Originally Posted By: timeau
I bet that compression in your engine is about 30% higher than it should be. Reason is simple: this is an "oil compression".

What are you talking about ???




Originally Posted By: timeau
Use Liqui Moly engine flush each time when you change oil.

You suggest an engine flush at each OCI ??






Your suggestions get more ridiculous every day.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
The consumption should taper off. It is common to have some consumption when switching between brands.

Could you explain this phenomenon?


Likely has to do with the fresh oil stripping off some of the AW layer from the old oil and putting on its own, which results in some of the product flashing/burning off.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Guitarmageddon

Ive read that one brand/grade may have more/less of additives that collect in certain places, and changing brand/grade "flushes" them out and causes oil to be consumed. (until the new oil has time to rebuild those areas)
Kind of like stop leak is supposed to work? Is this the right logic?

No, logic should be opposite.
The reason of oil consumption is clogged oil drainages and/or wrong piston rings tention or design. First is much more frequesnt, but second is taken place too. So if oil would "flush" something, the consumption would go down, but not up. Big drainage hole -> less consumption or no visible consumption at all.
I could accept the explanation that Mobil1 0W40 is more volatile than other oils. So being poured on the first time it is just being consumed easily. But then it cleans oil passages, so consumption reduces. But, one more time, I am not sure if this is a correct explanation.
Heavy high mileage oils works completely opposite. They are much less volatile, so consumption reduces. But also I am not sure if they can clean piston areas as good as Mobil1 does.


The NOACK volatility of M1 0w-40 is 8.8%, which is a lot LOWER than many other oils actually.

If you look at the high mileage oils on the PQIA site:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html

You'll notice not one of them has volatility anywhere near as low as M1 0w-40 does.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Originally Posted By: timeau
I bet that compression in your engine is about 30% higher than it should be. Reason is simple: this is an "oil compression".

What are you talking about ???


Especially for you:
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130114052914AAkNxDY

Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Originally Posted By: timeau
Use Liqui Moly engine flush each time when you change oil.

You suggest an engine flush at each OCI ??

Definitely. Normally drain the old oil, then pour a same amount of special flushing oil, idle for 15 minutes, then drain it too, change filter and pour new oil. This is how it should be done properly, but not a "poor man oil change procedure".

Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Your suggestions get more ridiculous every day.

And your edication level is stable as a rock.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The NOACK volatility of M1 0w-40 is 8.8%, which is a lot LOWER than many other oils actually.

If you look at the high mileage oils on the PQIA site:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html

You'll notice not one of them has volatility anywhere near as low as M1 0w-40 does.

Hm-m-m, did I say anything opposite? If I am not mistaken, I wrote same thing, but in different words...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The NOACK volatility of M1 0w-40 is 8.8%, which is a lot LOWER than many other oils actually.

If you look at the high mileage oils on the PQIA site:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/consolidated highmileage2014.html

You'll notice not one of them has volatility anywhere near as low as M1 0w-40 does.

Hm-m-m, did I say anything opposite? If I am not mistaken, I wrote same thing, but in different words...


No, you said:

Originally Posted By: timeau
I could accept the explanation that Mobil1 0W40 is more volatile than other oils. So being poured on the first time it is just being consumed easily.


Which is the complete opposite of what I just said

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: timeau

Definitely. Normally drain the old oil, then pour a same amount of special flushing oil, idle for 15 minutes, then drain it too, change filter and pour new oil. This is how it should be done properly, but not a "poor man oil change procedure".


This really doesn't make sense. What do you think you are accomplishing through this process? It certainly isn't extended engine life. A properly designed engine run on a quality lubricant at a sensible interval will outlive its usefulness/chassis it is fitted to. I fail to see the benefit of constantly "flushing" an engine when it will do nothing above and beyond that.

Where I see the potential value in flushes is with engines that have actual confirmed issues but are still able to be recovered. My one friend had a 302 that had been neglected. It had low oil pressure (due to some rather significantly worn rod bearings) but it had low compression/oil consumption well before that due to coked/varnished ring lands. Upon tear-down the oil control rings were flush with the pistons and varnished in their lands. It was a similar situation for both of the upper rings. This of course caused loss of power and oil consumption. Had that engine not developed rod bearing wear (due to junky oil use and a lot of nitrous) it would potentially have been recoverable with a flush, or at least partially. Some B12 applied directly to the pistons freed the rings and the pistons themselves were still in good shape (factory Ford TRW forged slugs), so they were not beyond the reach of a solvent freeing them IMHO.

That said, aside from some heavy varnish, the engine had no sludge (it also had close to 400,000Km on it). The oil drain holes elsewhere in the engine looked fine.

A few of the other short and long blocks we've torn down, which were much cleaner (one lunched a head gasket) belonging to various friends of mine, had clean internals, clean pistons with freely moving rings....etc. There is nothing a flush would have helped there, the engines were functionally perfect still.

If something is already clean, attempting to make it cleaner is pointless. The only time that cleaning is beneficial is when there is something that needs to be cleaned up.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
No, you said:

Originally Posted By: timeau
I could accept the explanation that Mobil1 0W40 is more volatile than other oils. So being poured on the first time it is just being consumed easily.


Which is the complete opposite of what I just said

Sorry for miscommunication, I did not mean the evaporation loss. I can't find exact term here, but will try to explain. For example, how would you call the ability of WD40 to reach threads of rusted bolt? Kerosine has same ability.

 

[OVERKILL]

Creeping?