Transporting Keystone oil By Rail

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: tig1

I am seeing more of these tanker car trains all the time. Even more than when I first posted this thread. Today I noticed the engine was a Canada Pacific engine pulling a zillion tankers south bound. I also see them going north bound as well.


More rail traffic is good for Warren Buffet as he purchased at least part of BNSF in 2009. And it's also a lucky thing for him that a good friend, an early investor in Berkshire Hathaway, heads an enviro group that was fighting the pipeline.

Just so happens that Buffet also increased his lobbying expenditures from $1.2 million to $9.8 million since buying BNSF.

Sure is good fortune for these people that the government just so happened to decide to disapprove the pipeline....

 

[tightwad]

The oil belongs to Canadians. The pipeline would belong to Canadians. The oil will be sold to ExxonMobil and Shell, both mutinational corporations who happen to have huge refineries in Houston(also a huge seaport). Why does anyone think this oil will actually end up in the United States? It may be refined here (a few jobs), but the oil will go where they can sell it for the most money.

 

[MNgopher]

For some insight into where the rail cars that may be carrying oil are from, take a look at the article in the May 2012 issue of Trains Magazine entitled: Oil Trains in the Wheat Fields

You may note this is NOT about canadian crude, but it is likely the source of some of the tanker traffic you are seeing. A little known fact is that some of the Keystone Pipeline capacity was for Bakken Oil from North Dakota/Montana. All you ever heard was about Canadian oil. Not quite the truth... (Shocking, isn't it...)

 

[userfriendly]

Since this post first appeared some changes (and disasters) have occurred.

First, not only tar sands crude is shipped by rail (CBR), but Bakken crude as well.

Bakken crude was the product in the Quebec Lac-Megantic runaway and main line derailment.

Crude oil is not what most people think it is, a thick molasses tar-like substance.

The Bakken crude is a sweet light product that is as volatile as gasoline, contains
various amounts of light-ends and when heated produces vapor pressures consistent
with the product description.

The tank cars involved in the Lac-Megantic fire were DOT 111 specification, which are
being phased out as quickly as possible.

Personally I'm a supporter of cbr, and it can be done safely.

Ultimately, pipelines are the long term solution for crude shipment.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: tightwad
The oil belongs to Canadians. The pipeline would belong to Canadians. The oil will be sold to ExxonMobil and Shell, both mutinational corporations who happen to have huge refineries in Houston(also a huge seaport). Why does anyone think this oil will actually end up in the United States? It may be refined here (a few jobs), but the oil will go where they can sell it for the most money.
And how much does it matter WHERE the product goes so long as it increases the market supply? The Japanese get a big chunk of the North Slope output. Perhaps they'll go for some Keystone oil instead, creating a surplus which will lower West Coast prices. Oil is a fungible good, more sellers looking for buyers causes price competition. It's Econ 101 which is often ignored when politicans and their ambitions get in the way. I do agree, the BNSF/Buffet connection is a factor and taking a good close look at in terms of who is hiding behind the curtain and grinning is in the consumer's best interest. Probably not going to happen until after '16, though, Buffet knows with whom to be best buddies.

 

[Lapham3]

A lot of Bakken comes thru Minnesota heading east and it makes folks a bit nervous as it runs thru the Twin Cities. There are still enough 'at grade' crossings-so all it takes is stupid drivers to cause a big problem. Pipelines are slow to be approved and built. The railroads today appear to be able to 'bump' the harvested grains in favor of the crude transport. Some of last years grain still hasn't been shipped yet.

 

[CT8]

Good ole Warren Buffet and his boy Obama, who woulds thunk it .Politics running this country we keep on blindly reelecting them..

 

[dieselbass]

One of the tank trains rolled through Davis and caused an uproar. That said, when they spray for skeeters to combat west nile virus, there is an uproar as well. Seems to me that more oil on the market is good. Oil based economies in the middle east are having problems as price per barrel is in the 80's and dropping. Demand is also drpping with highly fuel efficient cars and trucks roll out. Big rigs have become fuel efficient due to their complexity and difficulty keeping them on the road. Not running-no fuel consumed.

 

[CT8]

Governor Brown is working on the miles traveled in your vehicle tax. Californians love to pay taxes.

 

[userfriendly]

The Bakken crude that ended up downtown Lac-Megantic started the journey
in the Dakotas, went through the Twin Cities, around the bottom of Chicago,
into Canada through the "Soo" on it's way to New England.

There is a u-tube video being passed around of a train carrying crude, frac-sand
and other mixed freight hitting a stalled crane on a crossing.

The location is Mer Rouge, LA. (sea of red, must mean the English are coming)

If you can find the video, the tank cars are the DOT 111 spec I mentioned above.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Good ole Warren Buffet and his boy Obama, who woulds thunk it .Politics running this country we keep on blindly reelecting them..




Please. You really think it matters who's in office. They are all on the same side,only the faces change.

 

[userfriendly]

You mean like listening to Brad Wall complain about the railroad's performance
on wheat,
while other Saskatchewan products like potash and crude oil are being
shipped at record levels?

 

[Rand]

I just got the perfect tee-shirt...
since we are already bending the rules.

PS. shirt is anti-political.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Rand
I just got the perfect tee-shirt...
since we are already bending the rules.

PS. shirt is anti-political.
Simple and to the point

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: CT8
Good ole Warren Buffet and his boy Obama, who woulds thunk it .Politics running this country we keep on blindly reelecting them..




Please. You really think it matters who's in office. They are all on the same side,only the faces change.
I really can't disagree with you.

 

[Silverado12]

There will be more trucking and rail jobs if the pipeline doesn't go through. I'm all for American jobs. But with the pipeline, it looks like we take the responsibility if there's a spill, and really don't see any good coming from it.

 

[Solarent]

Here's a good article on the subject I read the other day
link

 

[userfriendly]

Thanks for that link.
I did not know that gulf coast refineries had a limited
capacity for light sweet crude.

That would explain why the Bakken/Lac-Megantic train was
on its way to a New England State refinery and not to the
Gulf Coast.

The last figure from Railway Age Magazine there is a 6 year back-order
on the new spec tank cars.

Construction companies are advertising for all trades to "start immediately"
in the south-west Manitoba and south-east Saskatchewan oil patch.

Thankfully I don't have a trade.

 

[Shannow]

6 year lead times on tankers, "start now"...sounds like a bubble.

These mining type booms do interesting things...take the Oz iron ore case.

Mining company builds train set, requires train drivers, digger drivers, trucks, truck operators....trains and trucks need safety officers, and response teams along the train lines.

$200k for a heavy truck operator, fly in fly out, two weeks on site (dry), two weeks at home. $200k for a safety officer/medic along the train lines.

All good, all jobs, and all extremely well paid for the inconvenience associated with remote work...the minerals start flowing...affected towns can't keep mayors, as they can earn 3 times the money in the pits.

As soon as money starts rolling in, then the capital is spent and trucks are managed remote control, from a guy/gal in a capital city, working 9 to 5, and paid capital city drone rates. Trains get remote controls, and the safety officer job is no longer necessary as there's no driver.

More money, less jobs.

If you can get in early, get the money, save hard, and try to find the next boom.

Those companies with 6 year backorders will be getting cancellations inside 3-4 years as the companies with cash coming in will be able to afford the pipeline

 

[m6pwr]

Anyone who lives near a pipeline or rail that transports dilbit should be concerned.

The crude that comes from the Canadian tar sands is just that: tar mixed in sand. To be transported to a refinery (e.g. through a pipeline like the proposed Keystone XL pipeline), it has to be dissolved into a form of crude known as dilbit (diluted bitumen - ie. diluted tar). The makeup of the chemical soup used as a diluent is claimed to be proprietary (just like fracking chemicals). However, one of the most likely solvents used is benzene, a powerful carcinogen. The stuff is chemically and physically corrosive. In other words, TransCanada wants to transport dilbit in pipelines that were never designed for such a product.

There are already U.S. pipelines in existence that transport Canadian dilbit , but none long enough (that's the XL part - the extra long pipeline) to take the dilbit to refineries in the Gulf that could then export it more cost-effectively to third world countries that don't mind using the fuel that would result: garbage diesel.

The environmental record of these U.S. dilbit-carrying pipelines is pretty sorry. There have been something like 12 spills already from these pipelines. One of the most serious (the so-called Enbridge spill) occurred about four years ago in Michigan, in the Kalamazoo River. It was found that the dilbit sank to the bottom of the river. But that's not the biggest problem. Apparently the diluent evaporates and drifts around the surrounding countryside. The Michigan Dept of Health did a study and found that 60% of the people living in the spill area developed respiratory and nervous system problems consistent with acute benzene poisoning.

So OP (Tig 1), when you hear the sirens going off or see "breaking news" indicating the rails cars have gone off the track, my advice would be to run. JUST RUN.