I did a couple timing belts on the Yamaha V6 Taurus SHO's. I would do it again if I have to, but I'm glad our current stable has chains.
Why The Demise of Timing Belts?
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I liked the timing chain on my Mustang with a 289 engine. It was a straight run from crank to cam, no guides or tensioners and they never failed. Everything since is worse and the timing belt in an engine where the engine is toast if the timing belt let go is the worst (what word is beyond worst?).
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I've done a chain on a saturn s series and belt on a neon.
Way less fasteners on the neon timing cover as it doesn't have to hold oil in.
What gets me is yes people are thinking about timing belts because they know someone who had a 90s car that snapped a belt. But new car shoppers aren't pricing 18 inch tires until they need them.
It will always be something.
Way less fasteners on the neon timing cover as it doesn't have to hold oil in.
What gets me is yes people are thinking about timing belts because they know someone who had a 90s car that snapped a belt. But new car shoppers aren't pricing 18 inch tires until they need them.
It will always be something.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
That is the case with most 2-stroke power equipment!
*ducks and runs*
Zing!
No, but seriously... if car makers had spent a tenth of the money researching and developing tip seals as what they've spent developing valvetrain components, rotaries would be a lot closer to ruling the world.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
That is the case with most 2-stroke power equipment!
*ducks and runs*
Zing!
No, but seriously... if car makers had spent a tenth of the money researching and developing tip seals as what they've spent developing valvetrain components, rotaries would be a lot closer to ruling the world.
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
That is the case with most 2-stroke power equipment!
*ducks and runs*
Zing!
No, but seriously... if car makers had spent a tenth of the money researching and developing tip seals as what they've spent developing valvetrain components, rotaries would be a lot closer to ruling the world.
Mazda pretty much had apex seals worked out for their engines by the mid-80's. At least they were reliable for the amount of power they were making. Wankels failed to take over the world because of their poor fuel economy and emissions behavior.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
That is the case with most 2-stroke power equipment!
*ducks and runs*
Zing!
No, but seriously... if car makers had spent a tenth of the money researching and developing tip seals as what they've spent developing valvetrain components, rotaries would be a lot closer to ruling the world.
Mazda pretty much had apex seals worked out for their engines by the mid-80's. At least they were reliable for the amount of power they were making. Wankels failed to take over the world because of their poor fuel economy and emissions behavior.
A small block Chevy with push rods appears to do just fine without a belt or a chain to drive a bunch of overhead cams that don't exist. The engine produces good power for its physical size. Sometimes simple is a good solution.
Simple is good! especially when you consider the abuse cars takes.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A small block Chevy with push rods appears to do just fine without a belt or a chain to drive a bunch of overhead cams that don't exist. The engine produces good power for its physical size. Sometimes simple is a good solution.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A small block Chevy with push rods appears to do just fine without a belt or a chain to drive a bunch of overhead cams that don't exist. The engine produces good power for its physical size. Sometimes simple is a good solution.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
A small block Chevy with push rods appears to do just fine without a belt or a chain to drive a bunch of overhead cams that don't exist. The engine produces good power for its physical size. Sometimes simple is a good solution.
Could just as easily say that OHC engines appear to do just fine without a bunch of rods and levers between the cams and the valves. Pick your poison: complex drive system vs. complex valvetrain.
Also, pushrod engines often do have chains. They're just really short chains.
The advantage of OHV is not simplicity. It's compactness (for V engines).
A small block Chevy with push rods appears to do just fine without a belt or a chain to drive a bunch of overhead cams that don't exist. The engine produces good power for its physical size. Sometimes simple is a good solution.
Could just as easily say that OHC engines appear to do just fine without a bunch of rods and levers between the cams and the valves. Pick your poison: complex drive system vs. complex valvetrain.
Also, pushrod engines often do have chains. They're just really short chains.
The advantage of OHV is not simplicity. It's compactness (for V engines).
Love the timing belt set up on my 2.0 Zetec. $80 for timing belt, tensioner, pulleys and serpentine belt. $11 for an 18 pack of Natty light tall cans and 3 hours of my time every 100k miles ensures that my engine will outlast the body or transmission. Whichever goes first.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Also, pushrod engines often do have chains. They're just really short chains.
Yes...and not always failure-proof, either. V-6 and V-8 engines used to skip teeth on the camshaft drive gear due to a worn/loose chain. I don't know about the Chevrolet small block in particular, but this was somewhat common the Pontiac and Olds blocks.
And NO chain wasn't necessarily better, either. Ford's 300 straight-6 used nylon timing gears that would sometimes strip.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The advantage of OHV is not simplicity. It's compactness (for V engines).
Another truth. When you think about all of the moving parts of a pushrod design, and especially if you can see it all visually in a cutaway video or computer simulation, overhead camshafts are really quite simple in comparison.
Also, pushrod engines often do have chains. They're just really short chains.
Yes...and not always failure-proof, either. V-6 and V-8 engines used to skip teeth on the camshaft drive gear due to a worn/loose chain. I don't know about the Chevrolet small block in particular, but this was somewhat common the Pontiac and Olds blocks.
And NO chain wasn't necessarily better, either. Ford's 300 straight-6 used nylon timing gears that would sometimes strip.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The advantage of OHV is not simplicity. It's compactness (for V engines).
Another truth. When you think about all of the moving parts of a pushrod design, and especially if you can see it all visually in a cutaway video or computer simulation, overhead camshafts are really quite simple in comparison.
Originally Posted By: cb_13
Love the timing belt set up on my 2.0 Zetec. $80 for timing belt, tensioner, pulleys and serpentine belt. $11 for an 18 pack of Natty light tall cans and 3 hours of my time every 100k miles ensures that my engine will outlast the body or transmission. Whichever goes first.
I used to believe that timing belts were unacceptable...until I actually changed one. The one in our Acura cost me about $300 in parts and a pleasant Saturday morning to change. I can certainly live with that every 100k miles. I'd certainly rather have that than a rattly timing chain setup, or one that wipes out prior to 100k miles...because those exist as well!
Love the timing belt set up on my 2.0 Zetec. $80 for timing belt, tensioner, pulleys and serpentine belt. $11 for an 18 pack of Natty light tall cans and 3 hours of my time every 100k miles ensures that my engine will outlast the body or transmission. Whichever goes first.
I used to believe that timing belts were unacceptable...until I actually changed one. The one in our Acura cost me about $300 in parts and a pleasant Saturday morning to change. I can certainly live with that every 100k miles. I'd certainly rather have that than a rattly timing chain setup, or one that wipes out prior to 100k miles...because those exist as well!
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
My car has no timing equipment whatsoever, because it has no valvetrain.
Yeah, no pesky timing belt maintenance for you! Only rebuilds every 100k.
I know, I know. Sorry.
Personally, I like the idea of camless designs such as some of the stuff Koenigsegg has been working on.
My car has no timing equipment whatsoever, because it has no valvetrain.
Yeah, no pesky timing belt maintenance for you! Only rebuilds every 100k.
Personally, I like the idea of camless designs such as some of the stuff Koenigsegg has been working on.
I have a 04 Camry V6 with 63,000 + miles. Would like to replace the timing belt, but I am concerned that I will not be able to get the crank pulley off. Does anyone know how many more miles I might get out of my vehicle with the OEM timing belt? The car runs as good as the day I got it and I can't see replacing it with a 14 or 15 as I don't think the new Camrys are any improvement over what I have. Maybe more air bags and VSC.Any one with Camry V6 timing belt experience? Regards
Originally Posted By: cpayne5
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
My car has no timing equipment whatsoever, because it has no valvetrain.
Yeah, no pesky timing belt maintenance for you! Only rebuilds every 100k.
I know, I know. Sorry.
No need to apologize. Gotta keep it real!
For '09+, Mazda did a LOT to address the early reliability issues. Fingers crossed for me! On the whole, though, you're right -- everything has a price...
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
My car has no timing equipment whatsoever, because it has no valvetrain.
Yeah, no pesky timing belt maintenance for you! Only rebuilds every 100k.
No need to apologize. Gotta keep it real!
For '09+, Mazda did a LOT to address the early reliability issues. Fingers crossed for me! On the whole, though, you're right -- everything has a price...
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Originally Posted By: HosteenJorje
I have a 04 Camry V6 with 63,000 + miles. Would like to replace the timing belt, but I am concerned that I will not be able to get the crank pulley off. Does anyone know how many more miles I might get out of my vehicle with the OEM timing belt? The car runs as good as the day I got it and I can't see replacing it with a 14 or 15 as I don't think the new Camrys are any improvement over what I have. Maybe more air bags and VSC.Any one with Camry V6 timing belt experience? Regards
Why wouldn't it come off? Last year I had a 97' Camry that I changed the original timing belt at 16 years old and 186,000 miles. It was also a Colorado car so it had some rust. Pulley came off easy.
I have a 04 Camry V6 with 63,000 + miles. Would like to replace the timing belt, but I am concerned that I will not be able to get the crank pulley off. Does anyone know how many more miles I might get out of my vehicle with the OEM timing belt? The car runs as good as the day I got it and I can't see replacing it with a 14 or 15 as I don't think the new Camrys are any improvement over what I have. Maybe more air bags and VSC.Any one with Camry V6 timing belt experience? Regards
Why wouldn't it come off? Last year I had a 97' Camry that I changed the original timing belt at 16 years old and 186,000 miles. It was also a Colorado car so it had some rust. Pulley came off easy.
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: sasha
Originally Posted By: DB_Cooper
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I've heard that timing belt interval was 30,000 miles in Yugo. Not sure if true. Mine didn't last that long.
The timing belt was a very good service item on the Yugo..no problems.
However the only reason Yugo had a rear window defroster.....to keep your hands warm, in the winter, when pushing the car.
Timing chains can be problematic too.When they need repair the costs are much higher. In the case of Audi..about $4000.
German engineering. Bleh
Pretty sure this kind of madness is fairly unique to Volkswagen/Audi.
Yup.
Originally Posted By: sasha
Originally Posted By: DB_Cooper
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I've heard that timing belt interval was 30,000 miles in Yugo. Not sure if true. Mine didn't last that long.
The timing belt was a very good service item on the Yugo..no problems.
However the only reason Yugo had a rear window defroster.....to keep your hands warm, in the winter, when pushing the car.
Timing chains can be problematic too.When they need repair the costs are much higher. In the case of Audi..about $4000.
German engineering. Bleh
Pretty sure this kind of madness is fairly unique to Volkswagen/Audi.
Yup.
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