I'm in central Arkansas, and if the weather forecasts are to be believed, we're in for another round of ice storms this winter. Been researching portable generators, but before I made a big post, thought I'd get some feedback from the gang. Ideas, anyone?
portable generators-where do we discuss them?
- Thread starter olddognewtrks
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OPE forum
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/14/1/Lawn_Mower_and_Small__Engine
but here is fine since its already here,
what kind of load do you anticipate,
detailed list of what you will be operating with the
generator.
what is the budget?
how will it be installed
transfer switch? giant extension cord? whatever.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/14/1/Lawn_Mower_and_Small__Engine
but here is fine since its already here,
what kind of load do you anticipate,
detailed list of what you will be operating with the
generator.
what is the budget?
how will it be installed
transfer switch? giant extension cord? whatever.
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I Have a Honda EU2000i - best generator I have ever owned - very quiet & uses very little gas. Very well made too. I found it on sale @ a ranch supply store for $800 - they hold there value real good. Ps-it also has a 12V-DC 6 amp charger built in.
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Planning first . Determine total load including starting load. A clamp-on AC ammeter may be useful.
How many circuits?
Fuel - do you already have natural gas or propane?
Location - consider noise, CO drifting back into house and possible theft.
My preference for fuel is propane.
Do not back-feed. Illegal and dangerous.
How many circuits?
Fuel - do you already have natural gas or propane?
Location - consider noise, CO drifting back into house and possible theft.
My preference for fuel is propane.
Do not back-feed. Illegal and dangerous.
Do you have a well pump on a long wire run? I recall asking about what I needed, and while I needed probably less than 3k I was recommended to use a 5.5kW one due to high surge demands from my 220 well pump and my 110 furnace.
One caution tho is the fact that these generators have a pretty good fuel burn rate. What are your plans for storing gas? [Assuming gas powered, propane would be easier to store.]
One caution tho is the fact that these generators have a pretty good fuel burn rate. What are your plans for storing gas? [Assuming gas powered, propane would be easier to store.]
+1 on the backfeed. Have the transfer switch installed by a professional.
If you do it yourself, make sure you have it inspected. If you do not have a proper transfer switch, you will backfeed not only your house, but back through the transformer which would step-up the voltage to the rest of the feeder lines.
If you have a gas generator, consider that you will use approximately 10 gallons per day on a larger generator. That $35.00 per day can add up real quick if you have an extended outage, not to mention the hassles of always needing to go get more gas at a station that has power.
Just my .02...
757Guy
If you do it yourself, make sure you have it inspected. If you do not have a proper transfer switch, you will backfeed not only your house, but back through the transformer which would step-up the voltage to the rest of the feeder lines.
If you have a gas generator, consider that you will use approximately 10 gallons per day on a larger generator. That $35.00 per day can add up real quick if you have an extended outage, not to mention the hassles of always needing to go get more gas at a station that has power.
Just my .02...
757Guy
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An old thread here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2628034/1
In addition to what the others have said, you'll find two types: Conventional generators and inverter generators. Conventional generator has the engine driving an alternator, typically at a fixed speed of 3600 RPM for 60 Hz power. Inverter generators are a bit more complex, but they are efficient for light loads. They use the engine driving an alternator at variable speeds, which is rectified into DC, then uses a DC to AC inverter to make 60 Hz AC. The advantage is there are some smarts on board to reduce the engine speed for light loads, so they can be more efficient.
Conventional generator:
Pros:
-Cheap
-Simple
-Lots of power
Cons:
-Noisy (typically)
-Inefficient for light loads because the engine has to run at a constant speed
-AC frequency is directly related to engine speed; a large increase in load bogs down the engine, reducing line frequency.
Inverter generator:
Pros:
-Lightweight
-Efficient for light loads
-Quiet
-AC output is not impacted as much by load changes
-Clean output power and voltage regulation suitable for electronics
Cons:
-Expensive
-Typically lower power ratings than a conventional
-Less efficient for heavy loads
-Small size, light weight, and desirability makes them popular among thieves.
Conventional generator:
Pros:
-Cheap
-Simple
-Lots of power
Cons:
-Noisy (typically)
-Inefficient for light loads because the engine has to run at a constant speed
-AC frequency is directly related to engine speed; a large increase in load bogs down the engine, reducing line frequency.
Inverter generator:
Pros:
-Lightweight
-Efficient for light loads
-Quiet
-AC output is not impacted as much by load changes
-Clean output power and voltage regulation suitable for electronics
Cons:
-Expensive
-Typically lower power ratings than a conventional
-Less efficient for heavy loads
-Small size, light weight, and desirability makes them popular among thieves.
i have several cheapies from hf. the littke 800w ones are good for a fridge and a couple of lights (night time,its super quiet). the 3200\4000 predator is good for fans,foreman grill etc.
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have a 5KW gen(6250 start) with the Subaru enine. I backfeed through my welder outlet with very good results. Like all things electric, all the steps have to be taken.
But while it can be done its illegal and basically requires setting up the generator to be done by the man of the house.
Manual transfer switches are not that expensive.
I have a 5KW gen(6250 start) with the Subaru enine. I backfeed through my welder outlet with very good results. Like all things electric, all the steps have to be taken.
But while it can be done its illegal and basically requires setting up the generator to be done by the man of the house.
Manual transfer switches are not that expensive.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have a 5KW gen(6250 start) with the Subaru enine. I backfeed through my welder outlet with very good results. Like all things electric, all the steps have to be taken.
But while it can be done its illegal and basically requires setting up the generator to be done by the man of the house.
Manual transfer switches are not that expensive.
My wife wouldn't know a gen from a chain saw, so yes I do set up my gen and fully understand the importance of breaking the main 1st before any back feed is done. With that said it does work very well.
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have a 5KW gen(6250 start) with the Subaru enine. I backfeed through my welder outlet with very good results. Like all things electric, all the steps have to be taken.
But while it can be done its illegal and basically requires setting up the generator to be done by the man of the house.
Manual transfer switches are not that expensive.
My wife wouldn't know a gen from a chain saw, so yes I do set up my gen and fully understand the importance of breaking the main 1st before any back feed is done. With that said it does work very well.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have a 5KW gen(6250 start) with the Subaru enine. I backfeed through my welder outlet with very good results. Like all things electric, all the steps have to be taken.
But while it can be done its illegal and basically requires setting up the generator to be done by the man of the house.
Manual transfer switches are not that expensive.
To be safe and remain insured there are approved methods of adding a lockout to an existing panel that is essentially backfeed. Basically a sliding plate kit that only moves when the main panel shutoff is in off position allows you to flip your backfeed outlet on.
Originally Posted By: tig1
I have a 5KW gen(6250 start) with the Subaru enine. I backfeed through my welder outlet with very good results. Like all things electric, all the steps have to be taken.
But while it can be done its illegal and basically requires setting up the generator to be done by the man of the house.
Manual transfer switches are not that expensive.
To be safe and remain insured there are approved methods of adding a lockout to an existing panel that is essentially backfeed. Basically a sliding plate kit that only moves when the main panel shutoff is in off position allows you to flip your backfeed outlet on.
Don't overspend on it.
Folks get over excited on buying inverters, standby's, diesel, propane etc when a simple $500-$700 5500 KW or less unit will power your home.
For the few times you lose power yes it will cost you more to run but your whole home will run. My wife was convinced to buy a $3500 standby unit that powered part of our home. Instead I sprung $700 for a 7000kw unit that powers everything including wife's 2000watt hair dryer! Since I bought it Murphy's law says no more power outages. Only used twice for 3hrs total each.
Folks get over excited on buying inverters, standby's, diesel, propane etc when a simple $500-$700 5500 KW or less unit will power your home.
For the few times you lose power yes it will cost you more to run but your whole home will run. My wife was convinced to buy a $3500 standby unit that powered part of our home. Instead I sprung $700 for a 7000kw unit that powers everything including wife's 2000watt hair dryer! Since I bought it Murphy's law says no more power outages. Only used twice for 3hrs total each.
Also consider what type of power failure where you live.
For something like an ice storm you can prepare for it and most likely you will still be able to buy gas in the city.
For a hurricane, you can prepare for it, but large areas may loose power.
If its cold out you might need to run the generator 23.5x7 to supply electricity to a boiler or furnace.
If its a power grid problem, that will be out of the blue and you cannot prepare a day or two ahead of time.
Propane has a vaporization rate (by tank size and temp) and a 100 lb tank might work in the summer but maybe not work properly when its cold.
For something like an ice storm you can prepare for it and most likely you will still be able to buy gas in the city.
For a hurricane, you can prepare for it, but large areas may loose power.
If its cold out you might need to run the generator 23.5x7 to supply electricity to a boiler or furnace.
If its a power grid problem, that will be out of the blue and you cannot prepare a day or two ahead of time.
Propane has a vaporization rate (by tank size and temp) and a 100 lb tank might work in the summer but maybe not work properly when its cold.
Propane is something you should really consider, especially if you can grab old 20 lb tanks from the dump to refill (if they're under 12 years old) or trade in. It never goes bad.
I like my chonda 3600 RPM deal. When an electric motor kicks in, the flywheel effect keeps engine speed and voltage output mostly stable during that brief surge in demand.
I'm lucky to have a shallow dug well (jet pump) that runs on 110.
I have a 4-circuit transfer switch, mostly so if a lineman knocks on my door before he hooks me back up I can proudly show him things are kosher.
I like my chonda 3600 RPM deal. When an electric motor kicks in, the flywheel effect keeps engine speed and voltage output mostly stable during that brief surge in demand.
I'm lucky to have a shallow dug well (jet pump) that runs on 110.
I have a 4-circuit transfer switch, mostly so if a lineman knocks on my door before he hooks me back up I can proudly show him things are kosher.
5500 watt (11HP or 340cc engine) is about the right size for most homes. "IF" you can manage your loads (wife and kids behave)
1) it will run a 4500W water heater
2) it will start and run a 2hp well pump
3) it will run a burner on a cooktop easily
4) it will run household lights
5) it will start run 2ea 10,000 BTU air conditioners
But, it won't do all of the above at the same time. Still, it's very likely to be the right choice.
ALSO!!! I don't like enclosed generators. I like top tier, contractor grade, non inverter, robust, easy to repair, open frame units. Honda, Northern-Tool, Yamaha, etc.
I don't like the cheapies from China, such as Briggs, Chonda, homeless depot and lowes models.
Suggestions:
4500W
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200467313_200467313
6600W
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200467366_200467366
1) it will run a 4500W water heater
2) it will start and run a 2hp well pump
3) it will run a burner on a cooktop easily
4) it will run household lights
5) it will start run 2ea 10,000 BTU air conditioners
But, it won't do all of the above at the same time. Still, it's very likely to be the right choice.
ALSO!!! I don't like enclosed generators. I like top tier, contractor grade, non inverter, robust, easy to repair, open frame units. Honda, Northern-Tool, Yamaha, etc.
I don't like the cheapies from China, such as Briggs, Chonda, homeless depot and lowes models.
Suggestions:
4500W
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200467313_200467313
6600W
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200467366_200467366
It depends on what you do, I have a Honda 2000 and a Mitsubishi 5800, both serve a purpose. The Mitsubishi is to loud and heavy but it will run a job site and is built like a battleship.
I will say the Honda's are very nice and when the Mitsu croaks its getting replaced with a Honda EU3000, they also make a 7000. Honda's cost a lot but you get what you pay for.
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is
For home standby Generac are OK, I like the 20k on propane since natural gas may or may not be reliable in your area. Or if you go larger go diesel and Cummins. At that point your going to spend $$$$.
I will say the Honda's are very nice and when the Mitsu croaks its getting replaced with a Honda EU3000, they also make a 7000. Honda's cost a lot but you get what you pay for.
http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu7000is
For home standby Generac are OK, I like the 20k on propane since natural gas may or may not be reliable in your area. Or if you go larger go diesel and Cummins. At that point your going to spend $$$$.
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