Warning To All Ford Ecoboost Owners
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Originally Posted By: millerbl00
I feel by waiting for "new tech" to be proven the "something" risk can be mitigated. Depending on the manufacturer and new tech that could be a long time...
Nothing wrong with tech 5 or 10 years old. Its been proven or bugs show up...
That's a fair answer. Now, what circumstances would make you decide that GDI engines are mature enough for you to buy one?
I feel by waiting for "new tech" to be proven the "something" risk can be mitigated. Depending on the manufacturer and new tech that could be a long time...
Nothing wrong with tech 5 or 10 years old. Its been proven or bugs show up...
That's a fair answer. Now, what circumstances would make you decide that GDI engines are mature enough for you to buy one?
Thanks, Tough question. I would have to see what warranty claims are being filed and what people are having problems with. I would need to see long results on vehicles with 150k miles at least. I would need to see foreign and domestic cars makers using it across all product lines.
Hard to put a time frame on it. Some manufacturer's have taken 10+ years to work some bugs out.
Hard to put a time frame on it. Some manufacturer's have taken 10+ years to work some bugs out.
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
It is extremely illogical to somehow rationalize that the car manufacturers have our best interest at heart and get new tech right the first time as many do here...
It's extremely illogical to go on an internet forum and claim that every new technology is flawed and will fail, but you still do it.
It is extremely illogical to somehow rationalize that the car manufacturers have our best interest at heart and get new tech right the first time as many do here...
It's extremely illogical to go on an internet forum and claim that every new technology is flawed and will fail, but you still do it.
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
It is extremely illogical to somehow rationalize that the car manufacturers have our best interest at heart and get new tech right the first time as many do here...
It's extremely illogical to go on an internet forum and claim that every new technology is flawed and will fail, but you still do it.
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
I have see every one of them come into play and everyone one of them was an on the fly development to some extent with the consumer used as a guinea pig.
Some are still not straightened out like CVT and they have been working on that since the 50's and later the Subaru Justy in the 80's.
It took GM many many years to make a dexcool compatible gasket. The original Cats were a disaster, we changed the pellets in them on multiple vehicles daily.
With cars costing as they do today i to spend my money on proven reliable technology not DI or a rubber timing belt running in oil (a fiasco waiting to happen IMHO) or a CVT.
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
It is extremely illogical to somehow rationalize that the car manufacturers have our best interest at heart and get new tech right the first time as many do here...
It's extremely illogical to go on an internet forum and claim that every new technology is flawed and will fail, but you still do it.
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
I have see every one of them come into play and everyone one of them was an on the fly development to some extent with the consumer used as a guinea pig.
Some are still not straightened out like CVT and they have been working on that since the 50's and later the Subaru Justy in the 80's.
It took GM many many years to make a dexcool compatible gasket. The original Cats were a disaster, we changed the pellets in them on multiple vehicles daily.
With cars costing as they do today i to spend my money on proven reliable technology not DI or a rubber timing belt running in oil (a fiasco waiting to happen IMHO) or a CVT.
Well said.
Seems like I am NOT the lonewolf......
Seems like I am NOT the lonewolf......
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If people don't want to buy products that aren't perfected, why buy anything? What car produced doesn't have any problems? Head Gaskets continue to be a problem for several manufacturers. Are you going to avoid buying a car that has a head gasket? Torque converter transmissions still fail regularly. Are you going to avoid every car with one? A/C compressors die. Are you going to avoid a car with A/C? I don't get the fear of new technology. It seems like everything has problems. The only difference is the fear of the unknown.
Thats ridiculous! Most things are perfected enough, poor material quality, poor assembly, or a bad part is inevitable. Cars break down, always have always will but we usually know why they broke and how to fix it.
I know i can rebuild a transmission that will hold up in extreme conditions by adding upgraded parts and a high strength TC, how would you do it with a CVT?
Its possible that few year it wont be any big deal, just another transmission.
The problem with unproven tech is they don't know why or how they can fix it when things go wrong, it may take a long time in many cases before they resolve the issues.
In many cases it takes a total redesign of the part or the whole system and it may not be a retro fit repair.
In your case you are always claiming running around at 4500 rpm for some time to keep the valves clean, that IMHO is nothing more than a band aid for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
I know i can rebuild a transmission that will hold up in extreme conditions by adding upgraded parts and a high strength TC, how would you do it with a CVT?
Its possible that few year it wont be any big deal, just another transmission.
The problem with unproven tech is they don't know why or how they can fix it when things go wrong, it may take a long time in many cases before they resolve the issues.
In many cases it takes a total redesign of the part or the whole system and it may not be a retro fit repair.
In your case you are always claiming running around at 4500 rpm for some time to keep the valves clean, that IMHO is nothing more than a band aid for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Originally Posted By: Trav
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
Man... If you'd lived 100 years ago, I can only imagine how you'd be railing against these new-fangled contraptions that break down all the time, when a horse-drawn wagon is a perfectly reliable, proven means of transportation.
Every technology has growing pains. You just weren't around for most of them.
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
Man... If you'd lived 100 years ago, I can only imagine how you'd be railing against these new-fangled contraptions that break down all the time, when a horse-drawn wagon is a perfectly reliable, proven means of transportation.
Every technology has growing pains. You just weren't around for most of them.
You just don't get it. There's acceptable risk and reckless risk. Inducing a product BEFORE its ready is done all the time. I would just like to see more testing.
As usual you take it to the extreme. Buy what you want and I will avoid what I want.
As usual you take it to the extreme. Buy what you want and I will avoid what I want.
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: Trav
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
Man... If you'd lived 100 years ago, I can only imagine how you'd be railing against these new-fangled contraptions that break down all the time, when a horse-drawn wagon is a perfectly reliable, proven means of transportation.
Every technology has growing pains. You just weren't around for most of them.
Wrong! I have no problem adopting new technology when it brings me something i don't already have and i have a use for it.
A car could get me from point a to b quicker than a horse and cart and i don't have to worry about what i do with the horse when i get there.
CVT, DI, or any other of new developments are not going to improve my car in any way whatsoever or make life easier for me in any way.
I bought a cell phone when they were in shoulder bag and before that had one fitted in my car when they were 3K and $2.25 a min. I used it, it worked, i made money with it, it made a difference.
Originally Posted By: Trav
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
Man... If you'd lived 100 years ago, I can only imagine how you'd be railing against these new-fangled contraptions that break down all the time, when a horse-drawn wagon is a perfectly reliable, proven means of transportation.
Every technology has growing pains. You just weren't around for most of them.
Wrong! I have no problem adopting new technology when it brings me something i don't already have and i have a use for it.
A car could get me from point a to b quicker than a horse and cart and i don't have to worry about what i do with the horse when i get there.
CVT, DI, or any other of new developments are not going to improve my car in any way whatsoever or make life easier for me in any way.
I bought a cell phone when they were in shoulder bag and before that had one fitted in my car when they were 3K and $2.25 a min. I used it, it worked, i made money with it, it made a difference.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Thats ridiculous! Most things are perfected enough, poor material quality, poor assembly, or a bad part is inevitable. Cars break down, always have always will but we usually know why they broke and how to fix it.
I know i can rebuild a transmission that will hold up in extreme conditions by adding upgraded parts and a high strength TC, how would you do it with a CVT?
Its possible that few year it wont be any big deal, just another transmission.
The problem with unproven tech is they don't know why or how they can fix it when things go wrong, it may take a long time in many cases before they resolve the issues.
In many cases it takes a total redesign of the part or the whole system and it may not be a retro fit repair.
In your case you are always claiming running around at 4500 rpm for some time to keep the valves clean, that IMHO is nothing more than a band aid for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
This is a rather ridiculous post from a typically sane poster. You can fix everything but don't know how to clean valves? Really? That isn't even a breakdown, just cleaning.
And my bandaid is not a bandaid. It is called being lazy. I'd rather just burn off the deposits than clean the valves. You don't have to. Your engine won't blow up if you let the deposits build up. It isn't like cars are failing out there because of it. This is the most ridiculous rant over something so stupid I have seen on this board in a while. Maybe sanity will return soon.
Thats ridiculous! Most things are perfected enough, poor material quality, poor assembly, or a bad part is inevitable. Cars break down, always have always will but we usually know why they broke and how to fix it.
I know i can rebuild a transmission that will hold up in extreme conditions by adding upgraded parts and a high strength TC, how would you do it with a CVT?
Its possible that few year it wont be any big deal, just another transmission.
The problem with unproven tech is they don't know why or how they can fix it when things go wrong, it may take a long time in many cases before they resolve the issues.
In many cases it takes a total redesign of the part or the whole system and it may not be a retro fit repair.
In your case you are always claiming running around at 4500 rpm for some time to keep the valves clean, that IMHO is nothing more than a band aid for a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.
This is a rather ridiculous post from a typically sane poster. You can fix everything but don't know how to clean valves? Really? That isn't even a breakdown, just cleaning.
And my bandaid is not a bandaid. It is called being lazy. I'd rather just burn off the deposits than clean the valves. You don't have to. Your engine won't blow up if you let the deposits build up. It isn't like cars are failing out there because of it. This is the most ridiculous rant over something so stupid I have seen on this board in a while. Maybe sanity will return soon.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Your engine won't blow up if you let the deposits build up. It isn't like cars are failing out there because of it. This is the most ridiculous rant over something so stupid I have seen on this board in a while. Maybe sanity will return soon.
I'm told that VWs and Audis are bad in this regard. As someone who spends some time on those forums I can say that at no point have I ever seen a single report of a catastrophic engine failure that was in any way related to the buildup of carbon on the valves.
Has it happened? Yeah maybe, somewhere. But it would be the exception to the rule and I'm guessing there would have been other contributing factors.
It almost always goes something like this...
"Hey guys, my engine is misfiring a bit while cold and the ECU threw a code."
Almost always, the response looks like this...
"Get your valves cleaned."
I don't have any statistics to back this up, but my observation is that if this happens to you before you hit 80,000 miles it's because the car has been used for a lot of short trips where the engine couldn't get completely warmed up.
Your engine won't blow up if you let the deposits build up. It isn't like cars are failing out there because of it. This is the most ridiculous rant over something so stupid I have seen on this board in a while. Maybe sanity will return soon.
I'm told that VWs and Audis are bad in this regard. As someone who spends some time on those forums I can say that at no point have I ever seen a single report of a catastrophic engine failure that was in any way related to the buildup of carbon on the valves.
Has it happened? Yeah maybe, somewhere. But it would be the exception to the rule and I'm guessing there would have been other contributing factors.
It almost always goes something like this...
"Hey guys, my engine is misfiring a bit while cold and the ECU threw a code."
Almost always, the response looks like this...
"Get your valves cleaned."
I don't have any statistics to back this up, but my observation is that if this happens to you before you hit 80,000 miles it's because the car has been used for a lot of short trips where the engine couldn't get completely warmed up.
Sanity will return when you and others get burned so bad by big auto your viewpoint changes.
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
Sanity will return when you and others get burned so bad by big auto your viewpoint changes.
If any of us get burned it won't be over this specific issue.
The only way to avoid getting burned is to not own a car. Avoiding direct injection isn't going to increase your odds here.
Sanity will return when you and others get burned so bad by big auto your viewpoint changes.
If any of us get burned it won't be over this specific issue.
The only way to avoid getting burned is to not own a car. Avoiding direct injection isn't going to increase your odds here.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: Trav
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
Man... If you'd lived 100 years ago, I can only imagine how you'd be railing against these new-fangled contraptions that break down all the time, when a horse-drawn wagon is a perfectly reliable, proven means of transportation.
Every technology has growing pains. You just weren't around for most of them.
Wrong! I have no problem adopting new technology when it brings me something i don't already have and i have a use for it.
A car could get me from point a to b quicker than a horse and cart and i don't have to worry about what i do with the horse when i get there.
CVT, DI, or any other of new developments are not going to improve my car in any way whatsoever or make life easier for me in any way.
I bought a cell phone when they were in shoulder bag and before that had one fitted in my car when they were 3K and $2.25 a min. I used it, it worked, i made money with it, it made a difference.
Those techs are all about improving mpg. Would you change your mind if gas was much more expensive, say $5/gal?
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
Originally Posted By: Trav
But how many times has that turned out to be the case? FI, CVT, computer controls, electronic ignition, diesel egr, cats, dexcool, electronically controlled transmissions, and a lot others.
Man... If you'd lived 100 years ago, I can only imagine how you'd be railing against these new-fangled contraptions that break down all the time, when a horse-drawn wagon is a perfectly reliable, proven means of transportation.
Every technology has growing pains. You just weren't around for most of them.
Wrong! I have no problem adopting new technology when it brings me something i don't already have and i have a use for it.
A car could get me from point a to b quicker than a horse and cart and i don't have to worry about what i do with the horse when i get there.
CVT, DI, or any other of new developments are not going to improve my car in any way whatsoever or make life easier for me in any way.
I bought a cell phone when they were in shoulder bag and before that had one fitted in my car when they were 3K and $2.25 a min. I used it, it worked, i made money with it, it made a difference.
Those techs are all about improving mpg. Would you change your mind if gas was much more expensive, say $5/gal?
If it was 10+ more MPG maybe. Not 2 to 3 mpg more...
While I find new tech interesting, the bottom line is that it is for me it has to work reliably and complete the task regrdless of whether its a automobile, tool, appliance etc.
In looking for the proper tool for the job, sometimes the end product isn't the most glamorous looking etc, but my method has worked for me for as long as I have owned cars. People knock my choice in cars occasionally, but they are the most reliable of any class/purpose I purchase, the Corolla was the only new one of the bunch, but it had a older proven engine/transmission design.
I'll leave the testing of new tech to those that feel they always have to be on the cutting edge, they can do the fretting, the warranty repairs, the discovering of weak points. I'll hang back and swoop in and buy the slightly older proven models and take the extra $ to the bank and live with less stress. Little bit of extra gas consumption holds no candle to a car in the shop, or a heavier month payment.
I know a couple of farmers that had ecoboosts. They failed on them under the normal rigors of their job, they both went back to the normal type engines in the same season.
In looking for the proper tool for the job, sometimes the end product isn't the most glamorous looking etc, but my method has worked for me for as long as I have owned cars. People knock my choice in cars occasionally, but they are the most reliable of any class/purpose I purchase, the Corolla was the only new one of the bunch, but it had a older proven engine/transmission design.
I'll leave the testing of new tech to those that feel they always have to be on the cutting edge, they can do the fretting, the warranty repairs, the discovering of weak points. I'll hang back and swoop in and buy the slightly older proven models and take the extra $ to the bank and live with less stress. Little bit of extra gas consumption holds no candle to a car in the shop, or a heavier month payment.
I know a couple of farmers that had ecoboosts. They failed on them under the normal rigors of their job, they both went back to the normal type engines in the same season.
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Would you change your mind if gas was much more expensive, say $5/gal
I am use to paying $8 a gallon and still drive a big engine car there, does that answer your question.
Would you change your mind if gas was much more expensive, say $5/gal
I am use to paying $8 a gallon and still drive a big engine car there, does that answer your question.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Would you change your mind if gas was much more expensive, say $5/gal
I am use to paying $8 a gallon and still drive a big engine car there, does that answer your question.
Yes
LOL.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Would you change your mind if gas was much more expensive, say $5/gal
I am use to paying $8 a gallon and still drive a big engine car there, does that answer your question.
Yes
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