Warning To All Ford Ecoboost Owners

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T
According to the vid Ford Engineering was having meltdown issues with chemicals, IIRC. Turbo's, cat's.


Meltdown? Like the valves were melting with the engine shut off? How is your chemical mix making it to the turbos and exhaust?

If you use chemicals you don't leave the fluid in the head before reassembling it. You pull the intake manifold, pour the chemicals in, let it sit for a while, then remove the fluid and clean out the broken up carbon. The engine shouldn't be run with any extra chemicals in it.

If you have a BMW you're lucky, they make a really sweet tool that gets hooked up to a media blaster and shop vac that fits the intake port in the head and seals it all off while you're cleaning it, so you all you have to do is blast, then suck out the walnut media and carbon with no mess.

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Ed_T

BMW is charging through the nose for cleaning, and denies warranty coverage, according to a forum thread I read. $2,500 was the quote.


Most US BMW dealers charge between $400-$800 for walnut shell blasting.


So every 25K miles you get to shell out 600$??? No thanks.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Ed_T

BMW is charging through the nose for cleaning, and denies warranty coverage, according to a forum thread I read. $2,500 was the quote.


Most US BMW dealers charge between $400-$800 for walnut shell blasting.


So every 25K miles you get to shell out 600$??? No thanks.


Even every 50K miles no thanks.

 

[Ed_T]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Ed_T

BMW is charging through the nose for cleaning, and denies warranty coverage, according to a forum thread I read. $2,500 was the quote.


Most US BMW dealers charge between $400-$800 for walnut shell blasting.


So every 25K miles you get to shell out 600$??? No thanks.


c/mon, don't be cheap!

 

[millerbl00]

The other car makers will follow suit soon....
DI service low low price of $995...
Makes you wonder if they knew about this all along...

 

[supton]

I still don't get why some buildup causes problems. Buildup like that in a cylinder, I could see that causing preignition. But on the backside of the valve? Seems like minimal airflow loss. Only if poor valve sealing came into play. Or sticky valves.

 

[Ed_T]

Good point, and all that extra work should help profitability immensely. Well I guess if they can't getcha on a timing belt since chains have taken over, they're gonna getcha on something else.

Unforgivable engineering. I'll keep both my pre-DI vehicles as long as I can, for sure.

 

[Ed_T]

What's interesting is that BMW is recommending (requiring?) walnut shell treatment. Perhaps they cooked a few parts up at engineering research across the pond.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T
What's interesting is that BMW is recommending (requiring?) walnut shell treatment. Perhaps they cooked a few parts up at engineering research across the pond.


BMW developed the walnut shell blasting technique in the 1980s when poor quality fuel caused intake valve and combustion chamber deposits. BMW Intake Valve Deposit Test Backround

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T

Unforgivable engineering. I'll keep both my pre-DI vehicles as long as I can, for sure.


Same here. If/when I do buy new again and if DI is the only option left, I'll probably go DI diesel.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T

Unforgivable engineering. I'll keep both my pre-DI vehicles as long as I can, for sure.


I certainly regret buying my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3; at 145,500 miles the engine(with a Hypertech tune) is only making @300 hp and returning 26-28 mpg.
Number of intake valve cleanings: Zero

 

[punisher]

It is not like this is a new problem.

FoMoCo had their "Rotunda Carbon Blaster" out there for at least 25 years. We used to see carbon deposits on the back of intake valves easily .250" thick on a semi regular basis on regular port injected engines.

My question: If the carbon on the rear of the intake valve is being blamed for a rough cold idle....then what is the mechanism for it? On port injected engines, the carbon on the rear of the valve acts like a big sponge and soaks up a portion of the fuel before it can ne integrated into the intake airstream. On a DI engine, assuming the fuel is directly injected into the combustion chamber, how is the intake carbon causing a concern as the fuel never touches the back of the valve?

Just thinkin about it. Maybe I am misunderstanding the concern.

 

[roadrunner1]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Ed_T

Unforgivable engineering. I'll keep both my pre-DI vehicles as long as I can, for sure.


I certainly regret buying my 2007 Mazdaspeed 3; at 145,500 miles the engine(with a Hypertech tune) is only making @300 hp and returning 26-28 mpg.
Number of intake valve cleanings: Zero


Agreed, this "issue" seems to be exploding on the internet, but not in the real world. There are hundreds of thousands of these engines in use and I have no first hand knowledge of any problems mentioned in this thread. I am very good friends with my local Ford dealer and they haven't seen any valve deposit problems with the Ecoboost. My wifes Escape currently has 17,xxx mi. and has been trouble free, along with everyone else I know that has an Ecoboost.

Just because someone posts a video doesn't mean he knows more than anyone else, he just knows how to post a video.

 

[millerbl00]

Some people just will not believe until it happens to them then its too late.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: VNTS
So every 25K miles you get to shell out 600$??? No thanks.


Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Even every 50K miles no thanks.


My direct injected engine has 85k miles on it and the valves haven't been cleaned. It still gets higher than the rated fuel economy and still spins the tires in second gear at full throttle, occasionally third as well... if it's really cold outside.

MCompact's direct injected engine has 145k miles on it and in another thread I believe he's stated that his engine hasn't required cleaning either. (*EDIT* - nevermind, he said it in this thread too)

The reason you may think it needs to be done so frequently is because somebody opened theirs up at that point because they felt like it, took pictures, and posted it on the internet. Just because it looks gross doesn't mean you've lost any power or efficiency, and it doesn't mean you needed to take it apart to clean it.

There's no reason to be "proactive" here. Just drive the car until it misfires or the check engine light comes on, then drive it somewhere to get the valves cleaned (or buy a six pack and do it in your own garage). It's not the end of the world.

 

[Nick R]

I'm at almost 37k on my focus and no signs of any issues with intake valve buildup either. I average 32-33mpg in my 70 mile daily commute (38-41ish on long trips) still has plenty of power, starts promptly.... No issues as yet. Granted mine is the N/A 2.0, but if DI was as bad as some are claiming, I'd think I'd have seen some type of symptoms by now

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Ed_T
In "normal operation" if one is lucky the only problem might be a gradual reduction in power output, probably going unnoticed by the average driver. Hopefully at least in the case of Ecoboost, normal operation does not include cleaning by way of liquid treatment. I would imagine that more than one has suffered at the hands of the neighborhood quicklube. Warranty work ka-ching.


So, please post these issues with these Ecoboosts as they age. They have been out since mid 2009 and have proven reliable in normal service.

And while you're at it, post some evidence of gradual power loss. I've only seen one and that's from the snake oil BG company. And their "tests" are extremely flawed.

Heck, I've even begged one "catch can salesman" who has "built race cars" for dyno graphs before/after his can and the cleanings he's "done on Ecoboosts" and got NOTHING. Seems that for someone in the business to document these "issues", it would be easy. Yet he has provided ZILCH!

My 81k example has had it's oil changed by the OLM at the dealer and no more no less. Still will push you back in the seat at all times and MPG is rock steady.

 

[millerbl00]

I am sure some people are experiencing problems. The people that are experiencing problems will have a hard time with the warranty. Will DI hold up like non DI? Time will tell but it looks like the problems are starting to occur on the higher mileage vehicles already.

 

[MCompact]

For purposes of this thread only...

Number of individuals reporting DI problems who actually own a vehicle with DI: 0

Number of DI vehicle owners reporting problems: 0

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: supton
I still don't get why some buildup causes problems. Buildup like that in a cylinder, I could see that causing preignition. But on the backside of the valve? Seems like minimal airflow loss. Only if poor valve sealing came into play. Or sticky valves.

Quote:
The deposits create turbulence and can restrict airflow into the cylinders causing performance and driveability problems (hesitation, stumbling, misfiring, even hard starting). The thicker the carbon deposit buildup on the valves, the worse the driveability problems.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/intake_valve_deposits_gdi_engines.htm

http://robisonservice.blogspot.com/2013/02/carbon-clogging-and-misfires-in-mini.html