Changing brake fluid, clutch also?

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Originally Posted By: Rand
what vehicle shares the reservoir?


My VW Jetta does. When I replace the brake fluid, I also bleed out the clutch from the slave cylinder.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Why wouldn't the ABS brakes be easy to do?

Some brake systems require you to actuate the ABS pump in order to release the fluid. And to actuate the ABS pump, you need specialized software. Many current VW/Audi cars are like that.

Some of these ABS systems were actually fairly easy to bleed. They cycled every time the car is started, and I think that was the method recommended in the service manual. I knew that sound. Every once in a while it would also cycle while I was driving. The ones that Honda used had a distinctive sound. And as I noted, the job had to be completed by resetting the thing with an electronic tool that only the dealer had.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Why wouldn't the ABS brakes be easy to do?

Some brake systems require you to actuate the ABS pump in order to release the fluid. And to actuate the ABS pump, you need specialized software. Many current VW/Audi cars are like that.

Some of these ABS systems were actually fairly easy to bleed. They cycled every time the car is started, and I think that was the method recommended in the service manual. I knew that sound. Every once in a while it would also cycle while I was driving. The ones that Honda used had a distinctive sound. And as I noted, the job had to be completed by resetting the thing with an electronic tool that only the dealer had.


Yes, supposedly one can cycle my car's ABS just by turning the key on and off, and a Tech 2, or the like, is not needed.

I just never have anyone around to help me bleed/flush the brakes, so therefore it IS a pain, or something I have to take to a shop which will let me use MY fluid, instead of their Gunk DOT 3 carp!
 
I replaced the entire hydraulic clutch from the rear main seal to the pedal arm. I had to bleed the MC before I mounted it to the fire wall. Once I did that,it gravity bled. For brakes I use a piece of tubing and a tabasco bottle with enough brake fluid in it to create an air lock. Put it on a bleeder,reach in and push the pedal whilst you watch the bubbles. I rigged both side when I replaced the rear hard lines recently. If you don't empty the reservoir, you don'have to sweat the ABS
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Some brake systems require you to actuate the ABS pump in order to release the fluid. And to actuate the ABS pump, you need specialized software. Many current VW/Audi cars are like that.


I'm SO glad I have a Toyota!
happy2.gif


I know about the Hondas, and ypw's Integra, and I guess I should've known about VW too.

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I just never have anyone around to help me bleed/flush the brakes, so therefore it IS a pain, or something I have to take to a shop which will let me use MY fluid, instead of their Gunk DOT 3 carp!


What fluid do you use?

FWIW, Even the Gunk DOT 3 is fine as long as you change it regularly like every 2-years. That is much more important than the fluid actually being used; even Walmart DOT 3 is fine for that.

The only fluid I know of that can go substantially longer is Castrol "formerly LMA"
 
I like Valvoline's synthetic DOT 3/4. It meets the higher Dot 4 specs but is safe to use in a DOT3 system.

I replace every 3 years, sometimes a little longer. I should probably do it more often. I like to use a turkey baster to remove old reservoir fluid first and fill with fresh before starting a flush. That way there's less time before fresh fluid starts coming out the bleeders.
 
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Some brake systems require you to actuate the ABS pump in order to release the fluid. And to actuate the ABS pump, you need specialized software. Many current VW/Audi cars are like that.


I'm SO glad I have a Toyota!
happy2.gif


I know about the Hondas, and ypw's Integra, and I guess I should've known about VW too.

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I just never have anyone around to help me bleed/flush the brakes, so therefore it IS a pain, or something I have to take to a shop which will let me use MY fluid, instead of their Gunk DOT 3 carp!


What fluid do you use?

FWIW, Even the Gunk DOT 3 is fine as long as you change it regularly like every 2-years. That is much more important than the fluid actually being used; even Walmart DOT 3 is fine for that.

The only fluid I know of that can go substantially longer is Castrol "formerly LMA"

I use DOT 5.1 when I can. I once bought some Moterex brand more or less accidentally, but have Motul DOT 5.1 and Wagner SevereDuty DOT 5.1 in my garage. The latter I had to special order at O'Reillys, but it wasn't too expensive.
 
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Some brake systems require you to actuate the ABS pump in order to release the fluid. And to actuate the ABS pump, you need specialized software. Many current VW/Audi cars are like that.


I'm SO glad I have a Toyota!
happy2.gif


I know about the Hondas, and ypw's Integra, and I guess I should've known about VW too.

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I just never have anyone around to help me bleed/flush the brakes, so therefore it IS a pain, or something I have to take to a shop which will let me use MY fluid, instead of their Gunk DOT 3 carp!


What fluid do you use?

FWIW, Even the Gunk DOT 3 is fine as long as you change it regularly like every 2-years. That is much more important than the fluid actually being used; even Walmart DOT 3 is fine for that.

The only fluid I know of that can go substantially longer is Castrol "formerly LMA"


I was using the Motul RBF 600, but I am going to try the Torque RT700 next.
It IS one of those which could possibly go for longer than the Castrol Advanced (LMA), due to it's reserve alkalinity (think high TBN for brake fluids) in conjunction with a wet boiling point only beat by Castrol React SRF (which it KILLS in said reserve alkalinity).
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I was using the Motul RBF 600, but I am going to try the Torque RT700 next.
It IS one of those which could possibly go for longer than the Castrol Advanced (LMA), due to it's reserve alkalinity (think high TBN for brake fluids) in conjunction with a wet boiling point only beat by Castrol React SRF (which it KILLS in said reserve alkalinity).


Cool.

Yeah you see those high wet boiling points (3.7% moisture), but they never say how long it takes to get there! Most high performance fluids go down real quick, but that's OK for track use where they change it every year anyway (if not after every event) and they only care about the dry BP.

Good to know about the RT700 reserve alkalinity TBN for brake fluid. RT700 sounds like the only high-performance fluid that'll last longer than Gunk and Walmart in a daily driver
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You know why they call it *React* SRF? Because it reacts with magnesium!
crazy2.gif


I change my brake fluid when I replace the pads/rotors. Usually with Wagner DOT 5.1
 
Yesterday I replaced the brake fluid, and made a somewhat major mistake. Because of the design of the reservoir I couldn't suction out the old fluid and I wrongly assumed that the clutch line was at the bottom of the reservoir.

So I decided to purge the majority of the old fluid trough the clutch line and, when the level was close to the minimum, air started to come out of the clutch bleeder, leaving my master clutch cylinder full of air. Now I understand that the reason for this is because if your clutch fails then it can't remove the fluid from the brakes.

So I refilled the reservoir and pressure bleed again until I got out about 150 ml, and then I actuated the clutch and it only engaged at the end of the travel, now I was really scared but I kept pushing the clutch and I started to feel that it engaged more normally, I actuated the clutch pedal like 50 times and was normal again, I bleed again and no bubbles came out of the slave. Then I measured the travel distance of the slave cylinder and was 22 mm (spec is 18 to 22mm)

After that I bleed the brakes in the usual manner and went for a drive and it brakes and shifts normally.

The fluid that came out of the clutch was of the same shade as all the other fluid so think it is necessary to change the clutch fluid at the same interval as the brake fluid and I recommend that the clutch be bled after all the wheels.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
what vehicle shares the reservoir?

My Saturn ION does, which probably means the Chevy HHR and Cobalt do also.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
what vehicle shares the reservoir?


My old S60R did and my 2014 has a shared reservoir. I actually am working on divorcing the reservoirs. I have a 04 Pontiac GTO one that I just need to figure out how to mount since there have been reports of Mustang owners finding clutch dust in their brake calipers.
 
do you seriously change your clutch and brake fluid that often? These are closed systems so I don't see a reason to hardly ever flush those systems out. In fact, I don't think I have done any brake flushing since the early 80's.
 
Originally Posted By: philipp10
do you seriously change your clutch and brake fluid that often? These are closed systems so I don't see a reason to hardly ever flush those systems out. In fact, I don't think I have done any brake flushing since the early 80's.

Many people never change their brake fluid, and will never notice the difference.

Your fluid will accumulate water, but if you don't drive like a maniac or overheat the brakes, it will be imperceivable to the driver.

I don't change mine as often as I should.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/bfluid.htm
 
Brake fluid is hygroscopic. The longer the fluid is in your car the more water is attracts, effectively reducing your braking abilities in a panic stop or long descents where frequent braking is required. The moisture also corrodes the pistons in brake calipers/wheel cylinders and will contribute to a failed/stuck caliper.
 
Hyundais share the same reservoir. On my Gen Coupe the clutch is gravity bleed but the bleeder screw is before the slave cylinder. It can be very hard to get all the air out of it.
 
There is not enough time in a panic stop to boil the brake fluid. I agree, decending a mountain may be an issue but there are none where I live.
 
When I can, I rebuild calipers instead getting remans. Every caliper bore shows rust and pitting on it. The seal is is an O-ring at the top of the bore, so corrosion below it is of no consequence. The take away point is that the crud in a system collects against the bleeder. Water needs air to rust. Air is the real problem, it compresses.
 
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