School shooting, near Seattle

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Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Video games, poor parenting, not teaching negotiating skills in school or at home, (with yourself or others) drugs, violence glorified on the tube. There are so many reasons our world has gone to heck in a bucket. Guns are just the method used, not the root cause of much of the violence of the day. Some folks are just broken, and we are failing as a society to recognize them and deal accordingly.


I think you are right. I grew up thru the 50s and 60s. I guess there were school killings somewhere, way before the internet....


Then you should know the murder rate was much higher in the 1960's-70's, before Atari...
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

The US was founded at the barrel of a gun;

So ?!
Its not the wild west anymore. Its not American cowboy movie stuff anymore. The world has changed, the society has changed.




Originally Posted By: oilboy123

That way all the criminals will be armed, and the innocent public will be at their mercy.



There are 180+ other counties in the world where guns are not in the hands of civilians or atleast like it is here in USA, and law order and peace is maintained just fine.
Out of these 180+ countries there are a handful where everyone has guns and lawlessness is rampant, so no, the argument that more guns means better and less guns means worse does not even get off the ground, let alone fly.
 
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It is really sad but to ask what is never answered, was the kid on psychotropic meds?
 
Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
Once again its a kid getting possession of the parent's killing machine. This entire household should loose gun rights permanently.

Whatever the reason may be - mental illness, video games, drugs, etc.. the common denominator is guns. By logical common sense it would be most effective to fix that one common problem instead of scrambling to fix all the several alleged causes. Yes those causes need to be fixed too but that will take a long time and it wont have an immediate effect, and an immediate remediation is desperately needed. Ask any parent who's kids are in school. I dont think it will give them even a cent worth more peace of mind knowing that now several staff at school have guns ready! What a dumb brainless suggestion.

Guns need to be banned for the general public with permits given, even for ammunition, only on very specific case by case basis. For example if you live out in the boonies and need to protect yourself from wildlife or such other threats. For hunting one gun is enough and no need for ammunition stockpile.
If you need 10 guns and a 30 round magazine to shoot a deer then you should rather stay home and find another hobby anyway.


So then they just take a knife to school and shank a few people in the kidneys?
21.gif


Mental health problems need to be dealt with. You remove one tool, they will find another. A van loaded full of fertilizer is effective too, are we going to ban cow poo?

Or hey, they could walk into Home Hardware, buy a hatchet and make a pretty nice mess with one of those too.

ANYTHING can be a "killing machine". They could take mom and dad's car and run over five or six students.

Treating the symptom rather than the disease seems to be a condition in and of itself here!
 
Who said anything about not treating the disease and only the symptom ? If you read my post again I said that will take a long time so what until then ? You'd still want a symptom relief until the disease is cured, correct ?
And it will act as a common symptom relief for so many diseases.
 
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Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
Who said anything about not treating the disease and only the symptom ? If you read my post again I said that will take a long time so what until then ? You'd still want a symptom relief until the disease is cured, correct ?
And it will act as a common symptom relief for so many diseases.


No, because if you remove the one tool, they'll just use another, and I gave many examples of other tools they will readily have access too. You can't ban everything. So the sooner we get on the bandwagon with dealing with mental health the better.
 
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
That way all the criminals will be armed, and the innocent public will be at their mercy.


Works for us in New Zealand - even the cops don't carry guns. Sure there are shootings, but it's a long,long way from open season on the innocent public. You have a unique problem of your own making, there is a lot of ranting and fist shaking, and by dragging out the old clichés it all comes across very short sighted.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
People are being murdered mainly by terrorists or by people with mental health issues. Plus there is the occasional serial murderer.


These statements are totally at odds with readily available data.

Do you know the actual number of people being murdered every year in the US, and the number being murdered by terrorists?

Do you know the actual % of murders that are thought to be due to mental health issues?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
Once again its a kid getting possession of the parent's killing machine. This entire household should loose gun rights permanently.

Whatever the reason may be - mental illness, video games, drugs, etc.. the common denominator is guns. By logical common sense it would be most effective to fix that one common problem instead of scrambling to fix all the several alleged causes. Yes those causes need to be fixed too but that will take a long time and it wont have an immediate effect, and an immediate remediation is desperately needed. Ask any parent who's kids are in school. I dont think it will give them even a cent worth more peace of mind knowing that now several staff at school have guns ready! What a dumb brainless suggestion.

Guns need to be banned for the general public with permits given, even for ammunition, only on very specific case by case basis. For example if you live out in the boonies and need to protect yourself from wildlife or such other threats. For hunting one gun is enough and no need for ammunition stockpile.
If you need 10 guns and a 30 round magazine to shoot a deer then you should rather stay home and find another hobby anyway.


So then they just take a knife to school and shank a few people in the kidneys?
21.gif


Mental health problems need to be dealt with. You remove one tool, they will find another. A van loaded full of fertilizer is effective too, are we going to ban cow poo?

Or hey, they could walk into Home Hardware, buy a hatchet and make a pretty nice mess with one of those too.

ANYTHING can be a "killing machine". They could take mom and dad's car and run over five or six students.

Treating the symptom rather than the disease seems to be a condition in and of itself here!




Exactly. Guns don't kill people,the person on the trigger does.

I've been a lot of places,seen and done a lot of things. I could fashion up a weapon good enough to kill a man from a plastic razor broken to a point and with a couple quick jabs to the throat watch them bleed out in minutes.
Or pull my bootlaces out and strangle a person.
How about a rock in a sock. Cracking a mans skull is really easy with the momentum gained swinging it.
Tie a lock to a bandana and just have the bandana showing out my back pocket,for a quick and easy grab.
My point is you can take guns out of the equation and people will still die at the hands of those who want to kill. It's not gun dependent,it's person dependent.

And what a joke,1,rifle.
Am I supposed to hunt prairie chickens with my 30-06,or how about moose with a .22.
Absurd
 
if you guys know of any knife, axe, razor, shoe lace, etc..etc.. that can kill 15 people in 5 seconds I'd like to know...
 
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Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
if you guys know of any knife, axe, razor, shoe lace, etc..etc.. that can kill 15 people in 5 seconds I'd like to know...


A vehicle can do more than that easily. A Super Duty aimed at a crowd? Yup.
 
Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
if you guys know of any knife, axe, razor, shoe lace, etc..etc.. that can kill 15 people in 5 seconds I'd like to know...


I don't know of a legal gun that can do that, either... Even the M-2 would be hard pressed to accomplish that.

Are you getting your firearms information from the fantasy of Hollywood? Or the overly sensationalized rhetoric of the anti gun crowd?
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: Mystic
People are being murdered mainly by terrorists or by people with mental health issues. Plus there is the occasional serial murderer.


These statements are totally at odds with readily available data.

Do you know the actual number of people being murdered every year in the US, and the number being murdered by terrorists?

Do you know the actual % of murders that are thought to be due to mental health issues?


By definition, that number would be close to 100%. Most murderers have mental health issues....or do you think that sane people are out killing others?
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: CT8
There needs to be armed teachers. The way the world is being sheeple won't work.


Have you ever actually taught in a school and significantly interacted with teachers? Um, no, very few teachers have any business near guns. They're not police.

Most schools have armed guards/police singularly trained for that and police are usually around or in schools a significant amount of time...


And what happens when the armed teacher goes off the rails?
 
The people who are anti-gun are completely missing the point. Guns or no guns, we still have a broken mental health system in this country. Take the guns away and the mentally ill killer will find something else. Heck, an automobile can be a deadly weapon. Or somebody could get a lot of explosives and drive a truck loaded with explosives near a high rise building. It has already happened. There was a guy in California who killed more people with a knife and his automobile than he did with the gun he had.

And guns or no guns, a lot of problems could be solved if parents who knew their son or daughter had issues tried to get help for the son or daughter, and if when they did try to get help there was a functioning mental health system.

Everybody is so politically correct they don't want to interfere with somebody's rights to be strange. People have a right to be strange. But if somebody appears to be possibly dangerous maybe officials need to be notified. Lots of people at Virginia Tech knew there was something wrong with the guy who eventually killed something like 34 people.

Before we worry about guns we need a functioning mental health system. We are going to need that regardless what happens with guns. I am all for the functioning mental health system. And I am pro-gun and I will try to get politicians who try to take my guns away voted out of office. The right to bear arms is in the constitution.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
The people who are anti-gun are completely missing the point. Guns or no guns, we still have a broken mental health system in this country. Take the guns away and the mentally ill killer will find something else. Heck, an automobile can be a deadly weapon. Or somebody could get a lot of explosives and drive a truck loaded with explosives near a high rise building. It has already happened. There was a guy in California who killed more people with a knife and his automobile than he did with the gun he had.

And guns or no guns, a lot of problems could be solved if parents who knew their son or daughter had issues tried to get help for the son or daughter, and if when they did try to get help there was a functioning mental health system.

Everybody is so politically correct they don't want to interfere with somebody's rights to be strange. People have a right to be strange. But if somebody appears to be possibly dangerous maybe officials need to be notified. Lots of people at Virginia Tech knew there was something wrong with the guy who eventually killed something like 34 people.

Before we worry about guns we need a functioning mental health system. We are going to need that regardless what happens with guns. I am all for the functioning mental health system. And I am pro-gun and I will try to get politicians who try to take my guns away voted out of office. The right to bear arms is in the constitution.


I agree on the mentally ill. BUT also we don't hear other murders in the media. Murder is a gruesome act. Jealously is a strong human emotion that can lead to murder.

One example is Aaron Hernandez because he is in the lime light as an athlete the impact are greater. There many like Aaron Hernandez out there...but it doesn't get the media attention.
 
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Statistics show 2/3rds of homicides are by firearm. It is clearly the weapon of choice because it is the most effective, easiest to use and most readily available.

Mental illness is estimated to be a factor in ~10% of homicides.

As for terrorism, here's a couple of charts to put it into perspective:

Gun-Murders-vs.gif


terrorism-deaths.gif
 
Yes, guns are convenient for Americans. However, if guns weren't available:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...tion-China.html

Quote:
Chinese authorities say two WOMEN were part of knife-wielding terror gang which left at least 33 dead and 143 wounded after attacking a train station in China


And:
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news...0949953/?no-ist

Quote:
It’s unclear exactly how many knife attacks have taken place in China over the years, but the almost regular media reports of the attacks suggest that efforts to regulate the purchase of knives or punish offenders haven’t been successful.

Most recently, targets for these knife attacks have included schools and shopping centers. Last June, knife-wielding assailants killed nine policemen and 17 civilians at a police station in Lukqun Township in Xinjiang.

In July of 2013, a mentally ill man stabbed four people, leaving a two-year-old boy dead, outside of a Carrefour shop in Beijing with a knife he purchased from the store. The following month, another man stabbed several passengers on a bus in Henan province, killing three, including a 10-month old baby and a 10-year-old child.

China is not unique in its problem with knives, however. In Japan, in 2001 a janitor wielding a kitchen knife killed eight children at an Osaka school where he worked, while a man in Tokyo went on a random stabbing spree with a dagger in 2008, killing four people. In South Korea, a disgruntled man killed eight people in a stabbing spree at his apartment complex in 2008. In Germany, a drunk 16-year-old stabbed 41 people at the opening ceremony of a Berlin train station. And last year, anti-knife campaigns ramped up in the U.K after a 13-year-old girl was stabbed to death.


If guns weren't available, they would just use something else, as proven in the rest of the world.
 
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