DI oil bypass filter

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Having read quite a bit about DI engines and how tough they are on engine oil and subsequent timing chain wear, I was wondering if a bypass filter would be able to clean the oil of the particles responsible for that wear?
 
remember this: mechanical filtration device (oil filters of all sorts) does not filter out fuel-dilution related oil contamination.

Frequent, justifiable OCI will help reduce the harm associated with fuel dilution (in motor oil).

Q.
 
As I understand the timing chain wear issue, fuel dilution is only a small part of the equation. The bigger issue is contamination of the oil with very fine particulates (almost diesel-like) from the DI combustion process. Most of these particulates are expelled with exhaust, but some make it past the rings into the oil.

So, theoretically, a bypass system could help. But not all DI systems seem to create this problem (GM seems to be one), and if they do it seems very controllable by shortening the OCI, as GM has done. Rather than going through the time, expense and general hassle of a bypass system, I think I'd just go with a high-quality oil and sensible OCI.
 
My Subaru has a timing chain and the longest I've gone and will ever go is 6K on the oil. I don't do extended OCI's or bypass filters. Just routine oil changes and a synthetic or synthetic blend filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
remember this: mechanical filtration device (oil filters of all sorts) does not filter out fuel-dilution related oil contamination.

Frequent, justifiable OCI will help reduce the harm associated with fuel dilution (in motor oil).

Q.



And exactly what harm would that be. We've seen many uoa here with fuel dilution yet all the wear metals end up being average.
I'm not saying that the potential for harm isn't there,just that in practice it seems that the issue really isn't one.
 
Originally Posted By: 6starprez
My Subaru has a timing chain and the longest I've gone and will ever go is 6K on the oil. I don't do extended OCI's or bypass filters. Just routine oil changes and a synthetic or synthetic blend filter.



Why are you even here then. If you aren't trying to learn about oil and so on you are wasting your time.
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
As I understand the timing chain wear issue, fuel dilution is only a small part of the equation. The bigger issue is contamination of the oil with very fine particulates (almost diesel-like) from the DI combustion process. Most of these particulates are expelled with exhaust, but some make it past the rings into the oil.


I'm sorry, never heard of that (yes, I am aware of diesel particulates, but not from gasoline type fuel injection so far).

Care to provide facts and research-grade reference to that? (must be gasoline DI engine related, diesel FI need not apply).

Thanks,

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
http://papers.sae.org/2011-01-1219/ Paper on GDI particulates and future requirements for particulate filters. (Sorry, I am semi illiterate when it comes to computers.)

This paper talks about particulates at the emissions level (what comes out of your tail pipe), not about particulates in engine oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Yes, but I think some gets into the oil and can cause issues, the same way diesels generate soot in the exhaust, also ending up in the oil.


Just like sub-micron level diesel carbon soot: if the gasoline DI engine particulates are sub-micron level (more like exhaust-related health hazards), I wouldn't lose sleep over it RE: mixed in oil causing wear.

Afterall: anything less than several microns will be sufficiently suspended by oil and still provides sufficient lubrication and not exhibits wear.

I'd still be more worried about anything over 10~15microns level, which most qualified motor oil filters can still do a mighty fine job in this regard.

Now, I'll see if I can get a copy of that SAE paper to study on the human respiratory related problem RE: sub-micron particulates from the exhaust (not oil).

Oh and BTW: on the timing-chain related subject matter: no matter how you dice it: timing chain will stretch and wear over time (unavoidable). Some may exhibits more stretch due to the way the engine was designed and executed, some exhibits less. Motor oil have a play in this game but granted: you use high-quality motor oil, change your air filter regularly and with conservative OCI, your engine timing chain will still likely to outlast the car body.

and if you want more, consider diesel-soot laden motor oil in ole MB diesel passenger/trunk where their engine, mostly driven by timing chain, can regularly if not easily reach 1/2 a million or even a million mile w/o the need of timing chain replacement (stretched? yes).

So, given all else equal: I wouldn't worry too much about those particulates in gasoline DI engine oil as a primary form of wear agent.

Q.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Yes, but I think some gets into the oil and can cause issues, the same way diesels generate soot in the exhaust, also ending up in the oil.


Just like sub-micron level diesel carbon soot: if the gasoline DI engine particulates are sub-micron level (more like exhaust-related health hazards), I wouldn't lose sleep over it RE: mixed in oil causing wear.

Afterall: anything less than several microns will be sufficiently suspended by oil and still provides sufficient lubrication and not exhibits wear.

I'd still be more worried about anything over 10~15microns level, which most qualified motor oil filters can still do a mighty fine job in this regard.

Now, I'll see if I can get a copy of that SAE paper to study on the human respiratory related problem RE: sub-micron particulates from the exhaust (not oil).

Oh and BTW: on the timing-chain related subject matter: no matter how you dice it: timing chain will stretch and wear over time (unavoidable). Some may exhibits more stretch due to the way the engine was designed and executed, some exhibits less. Motor oil have a play in this game but granted: you use high-quality motor oil, change your air filter regularly and with conservative OCI, your engine timing chain will still likely to outlast the car body.

and if you want more, consider diesel-soot laden motor oil in ole MB diesel passenger/trunk where their engine, mostly driven by timing chain, can regularly if not easily reach 1/2 a million or even a million mile w/o the need of timing chain replacement (stretched? yes).

So, given all else equal: I wouldn't worry too much about those particulates in gasoline DI engine oil as a primary form of wear agent.

Q.




Great post. Someone should make it a sticky
 
S
Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: Danh
As I understand the timing chain wear issue, fuel dilution is only a small part of the equation. The bigger issue is contamination of the oil with very fine particulates (almost diesel-like) from the DI combustion process. Most of these particulates are expelled with exhaust, but some make it past the rings into the oil.


I'm sorry, never heard of that (yes, I am aware of diesel particulates, but not from gasoline type fuel injection so far).

Care to provide facts and research-grade reference to that? (must be gasoline DI engine related, diesel FI need not apply).

Thanks,

Q.


Can't post links, but go to GF-6.com, click on the "Turbocharged Direct Injection..." article and look at page 3 of 5. This section says "...particulates entering the oil via blowby gases increase wear rates." It goes on to mention cam chain wear in particular.

This comes from Lubrizol, so it's a reliable source. And yes, this is for gasoline engines.
 
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Timing chain wear on GDI engines is caused by the high pressure mechanical pump being driven by cam gears or directly by the chain. Since the pump pressure is so high (several thousand psi), a much larger load is put on the chain. I don't think better oils or filters will help with the mechanical stretching of the chain.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Yes, but I think some gets into the oil and can cause issues, the same way diesels generate soot in the exhaust, also ending up in the oil.


Just like sub-micron level diesel carbon soot: if the gasoline DI engine particulates are sub-micron level (more like exhaust-related health hazards), I wouldn't lose sleep over it RE: mixed in oil causing wear.

Afterall: anything less than several microns will be sufficiently suspended by oil and still provides sufficient lubrication and not exhibits wear.

I'd still be more worried about anything over 10~15microns level, which most qualified motor oil filters can still do a mighty fine job in this regard.

Now, I'll see if I can get a copy of that SAE paper to study on the human respiratory related problem RE: sub-micron particulates from the exhaust (not oil).

Oh and BTW: on the timing-chain related subject matter: no matter how you dice it: timing chain will stretch and wear over time (unavoidable). Some may exhibits more stretch due to the way the engine was designed and executed, some exhibits less. Motor oil have a play in this game but granted: you use high-quality motor oil, change your air filter regularly and with conservative OCI, your engine timing chain will still likely to outlast the car body.

and if you want more, consider diesel-soot laden motor oil in ole MB diesel passenger/trunk where their engine, mostly driven by timing chain, can regularly if not easily reach 1/2 a million or even a million mile w/o the need of timing chain replacement (stretched? yes).

So, given all else equal: I wouldn't worry too much about those particulates in gasoline DI engine oil as a primary form of wear agent.

Q.


thumbsup2.gif


Chain stretching by mechanical tension promotes more wear than these teeny tinny particles.
 
Originally Posted By: C4Dave
Timing chain wear on GDI engines is caused by the high pressure mechanical pump being driven by cam gears or directly by the chain. Since the pump pressure is so high (several thousand psi), a much larger load is put on the chain. I don't think better oils or filters will help with the mechanical stretching of the chain.


So GM responded to premature timing chain wear in DI engines by reprogramming the IOLM to require more frequent oil changes because.....?
 
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: C4Dave
Timing chain wear on GDI engines is caused by the high pressure mechanical pump being driven by cam gears or directly by the chain. Since the pump pressure is so high (several thousand psi), a much larger load is put on the chain. I don't think better oils or filters will help with the mechanical stretching of the chain.


So GM responded to premature timing chain wear in DI engines by reprogramming the IOLM to require more frequent oil changes because.....?


maybe because their oil requirements for Dexos 1 is not suitable for longevity? It's optimized for emissions anad fuel economy
 
Last edited:
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