Castrol Edge Syntec 0W-20, 0W-30 BC, 0W-40 GC

[bobbydavro]

The U.S. stuff is made in Europe in the same plant just different bottles.

Get an EU pds if you want more detail.

But in reality HTHS, pp and Kv100 are irrelevant compared to actual test results.

 

[slo town]

Folks:

OP here. I ordered 8 liters of Motul 300V 0W-40 for my 330Ci. When I get that oil I will send it to Blackstone along with the others that need retesting.

Expect a full update sometime the week of Nov 3rd.

Scott

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Originally Posted By: edyvw
This is why I am not using Castrol any more.
Former 0W30 GC was very well in line what Castrol advertised in Europe, cst of 12.21.
However, this BC is off, so there is consequence in switching plants.
When it comes to 0W40, this is what I was arguing in thread about these oils in Euro section of this site.
We do not know what 0W40 we are getting. Euro 0W40 is advertised in the EU to have cst of 13.5 and HTHS of 3.7.
12.8 is too big of a difference from what they advertise in Europe.
I know there is version with cst of 13.1, it might be the case that we are getting that version.
I am sticking for now with M1 0W40, since my UOA proved that it is what M1 advertise.


Harsh when the test house has already admitted it can't provide reliable result.

You really think a 30ton blend of oil is allowed to leave a plant out of specification ?

Of course it is harsh.
What Castrol are we getting here? They are advertising on the bottle: best European 0W40 oil. OK, but European Castrol 0W40 SN is 13.5cst with 3.7HTHS. For Americans, there is pds sheet that says also 13.5cst BUT, they are only stating minimum required HTHS of 3.5 for ACEA A3.
Now if it is 13.5cst, same oil that EU gets, why then cst is 12.8? I would understand little bit of difference, but this is way too much. Also, what is with these pds sheets? I am sick of Castrol's transparency. At least M1 provides HTHS, cst, flash point etc, though I would like to see pour point too. But Castrol? Only minimum required HTHS of 3.5.
So my point is that if Castrol numbers are again around 12.8-13.0, then probably we are getting some other version of Castrol, either 12.8 that some markets are getting, or 13.1, which is also available on some markets, but not te one that Castrol claims they are selling, you know: Best European 0W40 oil!




Wow. You've certainly changed your tune. I recall your posts hating on M1 and now you sing its praises.
That's admirable. It proves your open minded and not stuck in any type of backwards thinking.
Good on ya.

 

[edyvw]

I changed my tune bcs Castrol changed their. I was not stuck to the brand, I was stuck to one particular product that worked fine.
When they changed production site I was: why? Why changing something that had following at big market?
Then they introduced 0W40 as best European 0W40 oil, BUT I was aware that actually Castrol makes 0W40 oils for different markets, and obviously something is going on with 0W40 we are getting. They are not transparent which one we are getting.
Also, I became little bit suspicious of Castrol's intentions once it started to change bottles and names like every six months. It is not Syntec any more, it is Edge. t is not regular bottle, it is black bottle. In the end, they are trying to sell questionable product based on built name from previous times.
If I could get GC from 4-5 years ago, I would still buy it before M1. However, right now M1 seems OK taking into consideration that I have no clue what I am getting if I buy Castrol.
Also, if M1 starts doing [censored] like this, well there are other products: long live online shopping.

 

[bobbydavro]

I've posted so many times about GC, but you fail to have got the hint that I know quite a bit about it.

GC is still the same no matter where made, the formulation/ reciepe is the same just its cooked in Belgium now rather then Germany. Belgium has castrol's biggest blend plant in Europe.

For 0W-30 A3/B4 there are two formulations globally. One is GC the other is GC plus a Ti boost, nothing has changed with GC for over 10 years.
Australia and Europe have had 0W-40 A3/B4 for a long time , produced in EU or Malaysia. This is the same 0W-40 A3/B4 formulation that US now get. Again there is a non Ti and Ti version.

The 0W-30 and 0W-40 only differ in VM treat. The 0W-30 is a thick 30 with about 12.1 kv100 and 3.5hths. The 0W-40 is a thin 40 grad but as it has the MB229.5 spec it maintains viscosity grade after a KO90 shear test.

I'm sure all the marketing changed with names and branding have confused things. But the oil in the bottle is still the same trusted formulation.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The 0W-30 and 0W-40 only differ in VM treat. The 0W-30 is a thick 30 with about 12.1 kv100 and 3.5hths. The 0W-40 is a thin 40 grad but as it has the MB229.5 spec it maintains viscosity grade after a KO90 shear test.

Is there any good reason why Castrol continues to make both the 0w-30 and the 0w-40 grades of this oil? They just seem redundant these days. The GC 0w-40 carries more mfg approvals, so it would cover the whole spectrum.

 

[Apollo14]

How much better could the Ti version be considering they have the same approvals?

Just wondering if I should swap my non Ti bottles for an upcoming oil change.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
I've posted so many times about GC, but you fail to have got the hint that I know quite a bit about it.

GC is still the same no matter where made, the formulation/ reciepe is the same just its cooked in Belgium now rather then Germany. Belgium has castrol's biggest blend plant in Europe.

For 0W-30 A3/B4 there are two formulations globally. One is GC the other is GC plus a Ti boost, nothing has changed with GC for over 10 years.
Australia and Europe have had 0W-40 A3/B4 for a long time , produced in EU or Malaysia. This is the same 0W-40 A3/B4 formulation that US now get. Again there is a non Ti and Ti version.

The 0W-30 and 0W-40 only differ in VM treat. The 0W-30 is a thick 30 with about 12.1 kv100 and 3.5hths. The 0W-40 is a thin 40 grad but as it has the MB229.5 spec it maintains viscosity grade after a KO90 shear test.

I'm sure all the marketing changed with names and branding have confused things. But the oil in the bottle is still the same trusted formulation.



You are telling me what Castrol's pds is telling me. No difference!
Pds stayed the same for old GC and "new" BC, fine. Problem is that we have now VOA of 11.55cst. I can remember seeing some VOA of "old" GC but all were around 11.9, or 12.0 some 12.1.
11.55 is too much of a difference of what Castrol claims.
Also, 12.8 for current GC is big difference from what Castrol claim, which is 13.5cst.
So there are two possibilities, if Blackstone confirm these results next time:
1. Castrol is actually blending different 0W40 from what they claim, one with 12.8cst or 13.1 cst which are available in certain markets, BUT NOT 13.5cst which is standard in the EU.
2. Castrol simply does not deliver what they claim they will deliver!

 

[bobbydavro]

Option 3. Black stone numbers are wrong. +/- 5% is a massive spread for kv100.

Does it matter if its 13 or 13.5 cSt on the kv100

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
Option 3. Black stone numbers are wrong. +/- 5% is a massive spread for kv100.

Does it matter if its 13 or 13.5 cSt on the kv100

Like I said, we will see once Blackstone runs third sample.
I gave options 1 and 2 after stating that if third attempt proves that second test was correct.
It matters. Then they provide us correct pds, right?
Apparently Mobil does not have that issue.
But to be on fair side, I will actually run Castrol 0W40 for 5K and let's see where are the numbers.
I have one more kit in garage, once I hit OCI in 2.5K I will run Castrol 0W40 and compare it to my already existing UOA of M1 0W40.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

All i know is i run M1 0w40 in my GTI with no issues. I don't live in the artic so the cold start thing is not an issue. My gas milage is best on this oil vs PU and PU Euro L. My engine is quiet.

I like trying new things with the car but M1 is the oil i keep going back to. It's simply the best bang for the buck in this grade out there.

If i was out of warranty RL 5w30 would be in the crank no questions asked.

Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
All i know is i run M1 0w40 in my GTI with no issues. I don't live in the artic so the cold start thing is not an issue. My gas milage is best on this oil vs PU and PU Euro L. My engine is quiet.

I like trying new things with the car but M1 is the oil i keep going back to. It's simply the best bang for the buck in this grade out there.

If i was out of warranty RL 5w30 would be in the crank no questions asked.

Jeff

I was talking to mechanic who only does Euro cars, and he thinks that RL in 2.0T application is just average. Not worth of money!

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

My opinion of RL goes beyond what any mechanic says. I raced a 400 whp Evo 9 regularly while using Redline 5w30 and even then i did 3k mile oil changes which was like crazy to most guys that race. Most would change their oil after every race. I know i was the one buying the 5 qt jugs of M1 0w40 and bringing them to the track.

Redline proved to be outstanding in that application and though the TSI is a DI application and the EVO was port injection you must keep in mind that my Evo was running 28psi at WOT vs the TSI at what 12psi?

When i upgraded parts on the engine of my Evo cams and such the engine was left so clean inside you'd sware it looked brand new. M1 did the same thing on a previous Evo i had but i did not track that particular Evo.

I think Redline is a sum of some excellent ingredients that just are not reflected on a lab report.

I must admit though that i have not used RL since it was reformulated but i seriously doubt they would compromise their oils reputation in any way.

I will never run this GTI near the levels of my past Evo's hence the reason why i use good ol' M1. It's a great oil great price and easily had. Plus it meets VW spec and for this car that is HUGE. VW seems to really frown on modified cars and using non approved oils like RL.

Sorry for getting off point GO CASTROL he he

Jeff

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

I was talking to mechanic who only does Euro cars, and he thinks that RL in 2.0T application is just average. Not worth of money!


Mechanics know less about oil than most of the posters on this site.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: edyvw

I was talking to mechanic who only does Euro cars, and he thinks that RL in 2.0T application is just average. Not worth of money!


Mechanics know less about oil than most of the posters on this site.

Highly doubt about this one. Guy is engineer, runs very successful business.
I would never mention that if this guy was just regular mechanic. Those guys on other hand are reason why I am DIY guy.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: edyvw

I was talking to mechanic who only does Euro cars, and he thinks that RL in 2.0T application is just average. Not worth of money!


Mechanics know less about oil than most of the posters on this site.

Highly doubt about this one. Guy is engineer, runs very successful business.
I would never mention that if this guy was just regular mechanic. Those guys on other hand are reason why I am DIY guy.


Again, nothing about that indicates he should be more knowledgeable about oil than anyone on this site.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
If i was out of warranty RL 5w30 would be in the crank no questions asked.

Jeff


I would be curious to see how the Motul 300V Trophy 0W-40 performs in that app as well, but it IS quite exorbitantly priced for an experiment.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: edyvw

I was talking to mechanic who only does Euro cars, and he thinks that RL in 2.0T application is just average. Not worth of money!


Mechanics know less about oil than most of the posters on this site.

Highly doubt about this one. Guy is engineer, runs very successful business.
I would never mention that if this guy was just regular mechanic. Those guys on other hand are reason why I am DIY guy.


Again, nothing about that indicates he should be more knowledgeable about oil than anyone on this site.

Yes, nothing indicates he knows better about that oil than anyone here.
Except, he uses that oil for customers who want that oil, and what he said (I am messenger) there is nothing that indicates that RL is any better for VW's that he services than Motul and Pentosin that he uses for customers that do not specifically want RL. He said same for Amsoil too.
He was just answering my question since I saw stack of RL on his shelf. And the question was: is it worth of paying that much more for RL.
He also mentioned that he has customer with VW Passat 1.8T made in 2001 with 340K with original Turbo, and he maintains that car since warranty expired. Only oil that was used was Valvoline 5W40.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
My opinion of RL goes beyond what any mechanic says. I raced a 400 whp Evo 9 regularly while using Redline 5w30 and even then i did 3k mile oil changes which was like crazy to most guys that race. Most would change their oil after every race. I know i was the one buying the 5 qt jugs of M1 0w40 and bringing them to the track.

Redline proved to be outstanding in that application and though the TSI is a DI application and the EVO was port injection you must keep in mind that my Evo was running 28psi at WOT vs the TSI at what 12psi?

When i upgraded parts on the engine of my Evo cams and such the engine was left so clean inside you'd sware it looked brand new. M1 did the same thing on a previous Evo i had but i did not track that particular Evo.

I think Redline is a sum of some excellent ingredients that just are not reflected on a lab report.

I must admit though that i have not used RL since it was reformulated but i seriously doubt they would compromise their oils reputation in any way.

I will never run this GTI near the levels of my past Evo's hence the reason why i use good ol' M1. It's a great oil great price and easily had. Plus it meets VW spec and for this car that is HUGE. VW seems to really frown on modified cars and using non approved oils like RL.

Sorry for getting off point GO CASTROL he he

Jeff


We know of two gentlemen running PYB (10w40) in their EVO8's that also race in SCCA events (stock boost though). They change oil every 3k miles as well. Not one issue. My, now sold, EVO8 used everything from GTX to M1 and just kept going until sold with over 125k miles on it. My money is on the errors coming from BStone rather than BP.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Yes, nothing indicates he knows better about that oil than anyone here.
Except, he uses that oil for customers who want that oil, and what he said (I am messenger) there is nothing that indicates that RL is any better for VW's that he services than Motul and Pentosin that he uses for customers that do not specifically want RL. He said same for Amsoil too.
He was just answering my question since I saw stack of RL on his shelf. And the question was: is it worth of paying that much more for RL.
He also mentioned that he has customer with VW Passat 1.8T made in 2001 with 340K with original Turbo, and he maintains that car since warranty expired. Only oil that was used was Valvoline 5W40.


He has no expertise in tribology. He doesn't know what proper oil analysis is from the sounds of it.