Crankcase Gunk Removal Idea

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Originally Posted By: Trav
Everyone suggesting drop the pan. This is a 1990 with almost 200K on it. This could turn into a royal PITA real quick. I came up with this to eliminate this fiasco or even engine removal in some cases.


Trav is 100% right. Listen fellas, there is no way in [censored] I'm pulling the pan and turning a simple "experiment" into a nightmare.

Because of my itinerary this weekend, I believe I'll be doing this on Sunday. Keep tuned. Friday after work, I stopped and purchased a gallon of mineral spirits, a gallon of Xylene, and a few gallons of kerosene. If I can find the carb cleaner dip/soak, depending on price, I'll buy that as well.

I'm so curious to see what the solvent looks like, what's in it, after I drain it.....it's a morbid fascination.
 
Back in December of 2009, I dropped the oil pan on the soon to be famous "Luv" machine to replace the rod bearings. There was a thick layer of harden crud on the bottom of the pan that was about a half inch thick. After trying to remove it with a putty knife, I finally took my pressure washer and blasted it out, (even then, it didn't come out easy - took about an hour of steady washing to remove it all).

I then removed the valve covers and discovered the same flaky black carbon under the valve covers. It was all over the rocker arms and, to a certain degree, was blocking the oil return holes in the head. After ruminating for a period of time, I deduced that these hard flaky carbon chips were the reason my rod bearings had gone bad. They had blocked the oil returns which had in turn, starved the motor of oil circulation which resulted in two spun bearings.

My solution was to blast the valve covers and the rocker arms with my pressure washer until they were clean.

When I finished, I blew everything dry with my leaf blower.

I'm curious if your motor has the same stuff in the pan and under the valve covers and if any of the chemicals you're going to use will dissolve this stuff or simply loosen it where it will float around in a chunky, engine destroying way.
 
The results were great.

First thing on Saturday was remove air filter housing to expose the throttle body. Started truck and used wedge to set rpm's to about 2500. Truck was already hot from highway drive. Used squirt bottle and fed her approximately 1 gallon of water over a few minutes. Exhaust was white, thick, and smelled like burnt gunpowder.

Then I drained oil, left filter on. Filled crankcase with 1 gallon of kerosene and 1 gallon of mineral spirits through oil filler hole in valve cover. Unhooked fuel injectors and wire going from coil to distributor cap.

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I then turned the car over 5-6 times for approximate 15 seconds. Let truck sit for 6 hours, every hour I turned truck over 1-2 times for 15 seconds. Then I drained the mix out of pan into a bucket.

IMG_20141026_151136069_HDR.jpg


The kerosene/paint thinner mix drain out thin. There appears to be only small flecks in it...no chunks. The solvant in the bucket didn't have any floating white stuff in it. It was so black, you can see the blue sky in it and I think the white might be a cloud or reflection off the sides of the bucket.

There is definitely a lot less crud in this engine now.
 
I remember someone a few years ago on another forum did this to a Mercedes M117 and the timing chain jumped.

Interesting experiment.

I'm not a big fan of fixing old stuff like this, if it runs good leave it alone until it doesn't. As long as the motor has good oil pressure and runs well a little sludge doesn't matter.
 
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Originally Posted By: Phishin
The vehicle: 1990 K1500 with 5.7L TBI 190K miles.

I'd like to drain the oil in my old truck this weekend. It's been 2 years since I've drained it....about 20k miles. It burns about a quart every 600 miles. I change the oil filter (Napa Gold) every 5k miles. When I top off the oil (with at least a quart), it gets either new oil (usually Maxlife NextGen) or old oil that I drained from my Honda and/or Subaru (high end synthetic with about 5k miles on it....so plenty of life left in this used oil).

Truck has a sludge issue when I purchased it 3 years ago.

My idea, to help get rid of any more gunk, crusty, sludge, etc. is to drain the oil after a nice hard highway run, leaving the filter intact. Fill crankcase with 5-6 quarts of either A.) Kerosene or B.) 50/50 mix of Kerosene and Mineral spirits. Unhook wire from coil to distributor and crank truck over for several 15-20 second intervals in an attempt to circulate the solvent. Let solvent sit in pan for 30 minutes or so, and then drain. Install new filter and fresh oil.

You guys see any problems with this type of "flush"? It's an old, tired, beat up, abused engine. If it dies tomorrow, I won't be surprised. But do you see this "flush" doing any damage?

And no, I'm not real worried about the solvent breaking loose tons of crud and clogging up my oil pickup. I've run a few gallons of MMO through her for the past 30k miles.



Just change it with a good diesel oil if you are concerned. I put 5W-40 Rotella T6 in our 1989 Ford F700 with a dirty 429 engine showing 144K miles with NO history but really dirty oil. Over the last 5 years we put 2000 miles on the truck making local runs but mainly was parked. Just changed it with a new Fram filter and more T6 Rotella. After 300 miles of hauling heavy loads of corn it is staying clear so far plus it has the Archoil AR9100 that has cleaners in it as well.
 
i'm confused,
how did you know the engine has/had a sludge issue?
did you ever pull valve covers, or did you get dark oil from an oil change and assume sludge?

i don't get why people fall in love with these de-sludge chemicals especially on a v-8 where all you need to do is pull valve covers and manually clean with kerosene, diesel, gas, and a garden hose. use an air hose and blow down through all the oil drain ports to the crank case, then drain it out.
sludge doesn't accumulate in the pressure passageways between the oil pump and bearings, using a solvent in high quantity is only going to cause a wiped bearing from lack of lubrication.

what i really don't get is you said you're not worried about sludge breaking loose and clogging your oil pickup, or being surprised if it dies from doing a solvent flush, but you said no way your pulling the pan and creating a nightmare? i guess your definition of nightmare differs from mine.
what kind of oil pressure do you get?
 
ATF is an excellent cleaner for situations like this. Drain enough oil to be able to add back about 1/5 of the oil capacity with ATF and start the engine and allow it to come up to temp via high idle. Shut the motor down and drain. It's like dumping a quart of highly refined detergent in your engine, and best of all it won't wipe out your bearings.
 
Originally Posted By: jrmason
ATF is an excellent cleaner for situations like this. Drain enough oil to be able to add back about 1/5 of the oil capacity with ATF and start the engine and allow it to come up to temp via high idle. Shut the motor down and drain. It's like dumping a quart of highly refined detergent in your engine, and best of all it won't wipe out your bearings.


Because I don't want this thread to get locked, I'm just gonna pretend you didn't just say that. ATF is not a good engine cleaner. That myth has been busted already.

Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
i'm confused,
how did you know the engine has/had a sludge issue?
did you ever pull valve covers, or did you get dark oil from an oil change and assume sludge?

i don't get why people fall in love with these de-sludge chemicals especially on a v-8 where all you need to do is pull valve covers and manually clean with kerosene, diesel, gas, and a garden hose. use an air hose and blow down through all the oil drain ports to the crank case, then drain it out.
sludge doesn't accumulate in the pressure passageways between the oil pump and bearings, using a solvent in high quantity is only going to cause a wiped bearing from lack of lubrication.

what i really don't get is you said you're not worried about sludge breaking loose and clogging your oil pickup, or being surprised if it dies from doing a solvent flush, but you said no way your pulling the pan and creating a nightmare? i guess your definition of nightmare differs from mine.
what kind of oil pressure do you get?


Nothing to be confused about bro.
1. Yes, the engine was sludged pretty badly when I got it. I removed VC's and cleaned the snot out of it the best I could using a rag, brush, kerosene, carb cleaner, etc. I had to de-plug the PCV system. I also have run a few gallons of MMO through the engine for the past few years....typically running 20% MMO, but occasionally up to 40% using 20w50 as a base oil.

2.) I still find carbon flakes in my oil all the time. I still find carbon flakes on the valve train. I know there is old crusty carbon all over the inside the engine if I find it on the dipstick when I pull it and I find it on the rock arms when I remove the oil filler cap.

3.) Even after a fresh change, the oil is always COAL black in 500 miles.

Finally, I don't think there was a ton of thick gooey sludge in this engine. But a lot of old crusty carbon, for sure. Probably some sludge too, but not enough to kill this engine. I don't think a flush with kerosene and paint thinner was going to cause sludge to break loose and kill this engine. But if this engine died tomorrow, I wouldn't be surprised. Whether it dies of old age or my flush, who knows.

All I'm really saying is....I'm ready to throw a new crate motor in this truck when this one dies. So, this was a perfect candidate to do this type flush to. I have nothing to loose. If I harmed the engine, oh well. If it did nothing, no problem. If it cleaned the engine out, possibly unclogging an oil port or something....or derestricting the oil pick up screen...that's a bonus.

Hard to tell oil pressure. OEM gauge on dash is flakey. But it typically reads around 30 PSI according to that thing, but I don't really trust much.
 
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Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
Back in December of 2009, I dropped the oil pan on the soon to be famous "Luv" machine to replace the rod bearings. There was a thick layer of harden crud on the bottom of the pan that was about a half inch thick. After trying to remove it with a putty knife, I finally took my pressure washer and blasted it out, (even then, it didn't come out easy - took about an hour of steady washing to remove it all).

I then removed the valve covers and discovered the same flaky black carbon under the valve covers. It was all over the rocker arms and, to a certain degree, was blocking the oil return holes in the head. After ruminating for a period of time, I deduced that these hard flaky carbon chips were the reason my rod bearings had gone bad. They had blocked the oil returns which had in turn, starved the motor of oil circulation which resulted in two spun bearings.

My solution was to blast the valve covers and the rocker arms with my pressure washer until they were clean.

When I finished, I blew everything dry with my leaf blower.

I'm curious if your motor has the same stuff in the pan and under the valve covers and if any of the chemicals you're going to use will dissolve this stuff or simply loosen it where it will float around in a chunky, engine destroying way.


That's awesome! Not many people would pressure wash an engine!
 
thanks for the clarification,
my opinion is i think you're wasting your money on anything other than using kerosene/gasoline and pulling the pan and pressure washing the bottom end and inside of pan. and then if the rings are shot and you get a lot of blow by into the oil you'll be back to square one in a few hours of run time.
 
Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
thanks for the clarification,
my opinion is i think you're wasting your money on anything other than using kerosene/gasoline and pulling the pan and pressure washing the bottom end and inside of pan. and then if the rings are shot and you get a lot of blow by into the oil you'll be back to square one in a few hours of run time.


Yeah, I understand your point of view. I actually agree with you. But "wasting my money" is a bit harsh. The truck was due for an oil change. I "wasted" $4 for a gallon of kerosene and $7 for a gallon of paint thinner. No big deal.

I'm sure the solvents "dissolved" some of the flakes/crud. The drained liquid was too dark and nasty for it not to have. When I replaced my oil pressure sending unit once, I saw a ton of crud in the lines connecting to the sending unit. So, if crud is built it up there, it has to be built up in other narrow openings.

I've spent a few years getting rid of crud slowly. So, I was confident that this big "shock" of solvent wasn't going to start the apocalypse inside my 350 by dislodging everything at once.

I'm sure there is probably some stuff stuck to the bottom of the pan. That's fine, it can stay there. But I was trying to clear up the pick up screens if they might be partially clogged and any narrow oil passage ways.
 
An easy way to see if there are flakes/chunks in the solvent is to let it sit for a period of time. Over time, the heavy material will settle to the bottom of the bucket. Let it sit for a week and then either dip the liquid out into another bucket or pour it into another bucket VERY slowly. Then you'll be able to see any large stuff or perhaps some heavy sludge that came out of your engine. Additionally, you'll end up saving the majority of your liquid mixture for another "cleaning."
 
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