Mobil 1 15/w50 in Ford 4.6 V8 12,706 Mile OCI

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Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Your oil choices are absurdly thick and will lead to poor throttle response and loss of snappiness though Power above 5K rpm my only take a minor hit - if any once the oil is hot. You shouldn't need ANYTHING over a ACEA 30 grade. Just going form sa 20 to a 30 in the '01 bullitt killed the engine response and made it feel like it was towing a 2000lb trailer. CAVEAT: The engine was not fully worn in though.


We've never seen it (parasitic loss from oil once hot) on the dyno. As previously stated, even a 10HP gain on the dyno couldn't be detected in the seat.

I don't doubt you, but I have never seen anything like what you are referring too. We have gone from 5/w20 to 15/w50 in an entire fleet of 4.6's (since brand new) to include police and public works vehicles, not to mention dyno tuning a number of 4.6's with and without blowers...never experienced what you describe...????

I'm curious!!!

In fact, 20w/50 was the only oil we used for years in sprint car engines, tow vehicles, wind machines and farm tractors.

When we tuned Frederick Aasbo's event winning Toyota Supra drift car, 20/w50 dino was the oil that he had been using, even during competitive events in Norway...FWIW




The thin crowd on this forum is quite fervent. I remember going from Straight 50 wt on my SBC race car to 20W-50 and thinking how thin it was. Then I switched to 15W-50 M1 and it poured out like water....and worked great in the Suburban too for towing. The BBC Suburban, which no longer tows anything heavy, now has 5W-30 M1 in it and I feel no difference - gas mileage is the same. Maybe the thin is better, I don't know for sure - but if it involves high horsepower or towing, I'd rather err on the side of a little too thick.
 
BigT61,

I have a background in racing and share many of your observations. I also switched my fiancee's 2010 Honda Civic Hybrid from 0/w20 (spec) to 5/w30 Mobil 1 synthetic with absolutely no change that could be detected and fuel economy did not change at all.

Of course it is also very hot here...even in the winter, daytime temps are around 85°F to 95°F...
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Having owned one of these I can say quite honestly that a 15w50 is absurd in this engine.
I ran everything from 20 grades to 40 grades in mine,and 500+ pounds of nitrous and I can say from experience the engine was sluggish at part throttle with heavier oil.
My car got to a top speed of 147mph based on the GPS tracking me with 3.90 gears. With the stock 3.27 gear it wouldn't break 135mph.


Just a question on clarification, what is 500+ pounds of N20? Is that the total amounts of pounds run through that motor during your ownership? Also, wouldn't the 390 gears run out of gear up top before the stock 327s and net less of top end speed?
 
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Also, wouldn't the 390 gears run out of gear up top before the stock 327s and net less of top end speed???


Top speed is related to aerodynamics and power. Many times, a lower axle ratio will put the engine in a more favorable powerband at higher speeds.
 
Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Also, wouldn't the 390 gears run out of gear up top before the stock 327s and net less of top end speed???


Top speed is related to aerodynamics and power. Many times, a lower axle ratio will put the engine in a more favorable powerband at higher speeds.


I can agree but can disagree on this. I am not really a car guy, but on bikes I can tell you a gear change (sprocket teeth down on the front or up on the back) will shave off top speed. The bike will run up to red line much earlier without sustaining the same top speed as the opposite gear change. I would think a Mustang with a stout V8 would be reacting much like a bike and not struggle to red line with any gear. Then again, I could be wrong...I am no expert specifically on a car.

But on the oil subject, I do not believe the thickness of oil would hurt the motor nor the power. There are many other things that would impact power more so than the thick vs thin oil change or debate.
 
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Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Also, wouldn't the 390 gears run out of gear up top before the stock 327s and net less of top end speed???


Top speed is related to aerodynamics and power. Many times, a lower axle ratio will put the engine in a more favorable powerband at higher speeds.


I can agree but can disagree on this. I am not really a car guy, but on bikes I can tell you a gear change (sprocket teeth down on the front or up on the back) will shave off top speed. The bike will run up to red line much earlier without sustaining the same top speed as the opposite gear change. I would think a Mustang with a stout V8 would be reacting much like a bike and not struggle to red line with any gear. Then again, I could be wrong...I am no expert specifically on a car.

But on the oil subject, I do not believe the thickness of oil would hurt the motor nor the power. There are many other things that would impact power more so than the thick vs thin oil change or debate.


Depends on the ratios in the tranny. You still have to keep the engine in its powerband to motivate it through the air at higher speeds. This is the reason the ratios are extremely close on the tranny in my M5, to keep it close to where it makes maximum power so it can achieve its top speed of ~190Mph.
 
Overkill - Exactly. I took my 1975 Firebird to El Mirage in June of 2012 for a timed run. At the time, it was powered by a 400HP 413 CID Pontiac, M-20 4 speed and 2.56:1 axle. My first run was 144 mph @ 4900 rpm. It was as if I hit a brick wall at that speed and the engine dyno'd 400HP at over 6,000 rpm.

I swapped in a set of 3.23's from a Caprice and made a second attempt. My top speed was 160.458 @ 6500 rpm, blowing the fiberglass hood completely off the car at the end of the run...


ElMirage2011.jpg
 
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The only oil I ran in that motor was 20/w50 Valvoline Racing Oil. Because this engine was Carbureted, I changed the oil every 2,500 miles.

Much like we learned on our sprint car engines, we never ran a thermostat, instead running a 'gutted' thermostat to control water flow at elevated rpm's. We made more power on the dyno at 170°F than we did at 210°F...FWIW

FrontSheetMetalBumper010.jpg

135mph.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I know it's a different engine,but Ford specs 5W50 for their high performance lineup. You could give either Motorcraft or Castrol 5W50 a try.




Not on any engine built and installed in a new edge body. Even the terminator calls for a 20 grade.

As proven by the millions of 2v engines still on the road today running 20 grades going thicker isn't going to make the engine last any longer than an engine using a thinner oil.
A 50 grade in a mod motor,especially a stock mod motor is absurd.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I know it's a different engine,but Ford specs 5W50 for their high performance lineup. You could give either Motorcraft or Castrol 5W50 a try.




Not on any engine built and installed in a new edge body. Even the terminator calls for a 20 grade.

As proven by the millions of 2v engines still on the road today running 20 grades going thicker isn't going to make the engine last any longer than an engine using a thinner oil.
A 50 grade in a mod motor,especially a stock mod motor is absurd.
WHY? Exactly.
 
Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
The only oil I ran in that motor was 20/w50 Valvoline Racing Oil. Because this engine was Carbureted, I changed the oil every 2,500 miles.

Much like we learned on our sprint car engines, we never ran a thermostat, instead running a 'gutted' thermostat to control water flow at elevated rpm's. We made more power on the dyno at 170°F than we did at 210°F...FWIW

FrontSheetMetalBumper010.jpg
I know that
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135mph.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
As proven by the millions of 2v engines still on the road today running 20 grades going thicker isn't going to make the engine last any longer than an engine using a thinner oil.
A 50 grade in a mod motor,especially a stock mod motor is absurd.


I guess the bumblebee cannot fly either, right???

We ran entire fleets of 2V's on 15/w50 Mobil 1 at 15,000 OCI's, including police and public works vehicles, in the heat of California's Central Valley and most units had over 250,000 when we retired them. Many were sold for taxi service after that.

We had much better longevity than other nearby cities/agencies who swore by 5/w20 changing it every 3,000 miles. Eventually, more and more cities approached us about how much we were saving on oil services and how many miles we were getting out of our patrol cars. Gradually, more and more agencies began adopting what worked so well for us.

It's cool if you want to run 0/w0 in your car...
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Nice pictures.
Your OP gauge appears to indicate the oil pump in by-pass mode.


Yep,

60 lbs pump in that motor, standard Pontiac Ram Air IV unit...
 
Just for the sake of argument, here is how we arrived at a lot of our methodology. Growing up in a race car shop, I had benefit of a dyno and a flow bench in-house, so much of the 'sword fighting' that goes on in forums (and in the pits at racetracks) was stopped in it's tracks.

I also had an extensive background in vintage motor racing (VARA), SCCA events, NASCAR short track series and NHRA Divison 7 competition.

When guys said the motor makes more power at 220°F we tried it. Dyno said 170°F made more power.

When guys said 5/w30 made more HP and TQ than 20/w50, we tried it. Dyno proved no difference between the two.

I won't even mention TONS of 'trick' exhaust components that claimed big HP and TQ gains on the box and made zero HP and TQ on the dyno.

When I suggested 15,000 mile OCI's at the PD, I backed the request up with oil analysis.

So, at the end of the day, we must all agree to disagree, but the only 'absurdity' is being closed-minded...Peace
 
Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Nice pictures.
Your OP gauge appears to indicate the oil pump in by-pass mode.


Yep,

60 lbs pump in that motor, standard Pontiac Ram Air IV unit...

Running a lighter oil that gave 50-55 psi OP would provide greater oil flow (with all the associated lubrication and cooling benefits) while still providing a more than adequate viscosity that the engine was designed to require.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Nice pictures.
Your OP gauge appears to indicate the oil pump in by-pass mode.


Yep,

60 lbs pump in that motor, standard Pontiac Ram Air IV unit...

Running a lighter oil that gave 50-55 psi OP would provide greater oil flow (with all the associated lubrication and cooling benefits) while still providing a more than adequate viscosity that the engine was designed to require.


That engine was tested with 5/w30 and hot oil pressure was exactly the same on a mechanical gauge as it was with 20/w50.

On Pontiacs, we run a LOT of rod side clearance (about .022" to .028") to move more oil across the bearing surfaces. We also employed a galley plug with a .030" drilled hole to provide oiling to the distributor drive gear. These only affected idle oil pressure.

You can see this engine in action on You Tube....FWIW

Here is a link to some of the photos of this build:

Pontiac 413 Build
 
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