Mobil 1 15/w50 in Ford 4.6 V8 12,706 Mile OCI

[Doktor_Bert]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Quote:
Lead reading was 56ppm and copper was 12ppm after 12,706 highway miles on the 12,706 mile OCI.


Is 56ppm Pb and 12ppm Cu a concern?


My sources indicate the factory Ford bearings in a 4.6 of this vintage are a Bi-metal, silicon aluminum material...FWIW

 

[Doktor_Bert]

I also recently used an octane booster made by Lucas (it was free) that is reported to be catalytic converter safe but contains MMT.

I have read reports that these products, though advertised as lead-free, can put lead elements in the oil.

Anyone care to explain this???

 

[CT8]

Nice Mustang!!! Super nice!

 

[440Magnum]

I'd want to track down the source of the lead and be SURE that its an additive. That's pretty high. If its had leaded octane boosters of any sort, that might explain it as it takes a while to flush all the lead out of an engine.

I don't believe that Techron will raise lead readings... period. Lucas- who knows? Did it ever get a tank full of leaded race fuel or aviation fuel? The lead HAS to come from somewhere- either through the fuel or out of the bearings. Are the cam bearings in a 4.6 made with a lead layer, even if the mains aren't? I'd actaully be a little concerned that a 50-weight oil in an engine essentially built for a 20-weight might be starving flow to the top end under certain conditions, especially on startup with it being a 15w50 instead of something like a 0w40 (which IMO would be a more suitable up-viscosity choice for that engine).

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I'd want to track down the source of the lead and be SURE that its an additive. That's pretty high. If its had leaded octane boosters of any sort, that might explain it as it takes a while to flush all the lead out of an engine.

I don't believe that Techron will raise lead readings... period. Lucas- who knows? Did it ever get a tank full of leaded race fuel or aviation fuel? The lead HAS to come from somewhere- either through the fuel or out of the bearings. Are the cam bearings in a 4.6 made with a lead layer, even if the mains aren't? I'd actaully be a little concerned that a 50-weight oil in an engine essentially built for a 20-weight might be starving flow to the top end under certain conditions, especially on startup with it being a 15w50 instead of something like a 0w40 (which IMO would be a more suitable up-viscosity choice for that engine).


NO

 

[aquariuscsm]

I know it's a different engine,but Ford specs 5W50 for their high performance lineup. You could give either Motorcraft or Castrol 5W50 a try.

 

[Doktor_Bert]

I have used a lot of different weight oils. Now, keep in mind it never gets super cold here in So Cal, but testing with a mechanical gauge, I recorded no difference in how quickly oil pressure came up on a cold motor with 5/w30 or 15/w50. Also, there is no valvetrain noise with any weight.

IMHO, I don't believe any engine is 'built' for a given viscosity. Bearing clearances have always been roughly .001" per inch or journal diameter. GM engineer Gerry Thompson told me once that the factory considers only two things when selecting a viscosity.

1. Coldest place the vehicle is likely to go
2. CAFE ratings

Although BMW spec's out a 10/w60 for their 'M" engines, I think a 5/w50 is a really good all season oil, IMHO anyways...

I tend to use Liqui-Moly 10/w60 a lot because I get it for $22.00/per 5 litre jug...

 

[Doktor_Bert]

Ford 4.6 camshafts run in the aluminum heads...

 

[crazyoildude]

i always liked the mustangs

 

[901Memphis]

Interesting... I had high lead in my last UOA and I used tons of Techron. I wasn't able to find any information on the Web indicating Techron cause lead in the oil. Did Blackstone really say otherwise?

My first thought when I see high lead on an overly thick oil is that they are related. Could something like Mobil 1 0W40 produce better metal wear? Maybe. But without a definite answer on Techron I won't know.

Here is my UOA for comparison.

 

[CT8]

I don't see 15W-50 an over thick oil. It drains out like water when it is hot.

 

[SilverC6]

Good looking car and, from the results, you're running the right oil.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I think the 50 weight oil is perfect for your high performance Mustang. If I ever buy a V8 Mustang it's going to get fed 50 weight starting the very first oil change. I use 20W50 year round in my 300ZX (I need to change my sig). It's an OEM spec'd weight and I had a perfect UOA with it (the 3200 mile oci,the 3000 mile oci is Mobil 1 10W40). The 3200 mile 20W50 oci was a VERY hard "drove it like I stole it" 3200 miles. You can see my car sheared the living heck out of that 20W50 RP. I change my oil religiously every 3/3k whether it's synth or mineral.

 

[Clevy]

Having owned one of these I can say quite honestly that a 15w50 is absurd in this engine.
I ran everything from 20 grades to 40 grades in mine,and 500+ pounds of nitrous and I can say from experience the engine was sluggish at part throttle with heavier oil.
My car got to a top speed of 147mph based on the GPS tracking me with 3.90 gears. With the stock 3.27 gear it wouldn't break 135mph.
I had mach springs which dropped it an inch or so and it cornered like it was on rails.
I suggest ditching the 15w-50 and try a 0w-40. Or even a 30 grade. The mod motors don't need anything that thick.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: CT8
I don't see 15W-50 an over thick oil. It drains out like water when it is hot.


Mobil 1 15w50 is a fine oil, but super viscous. We are talking about a KV100 of 18 cSt! The HTHS is 4.5.

It's not even so much the KV100 that could contribute to wear but the KV40 is 125 compared to Mobil 1 0W40 which has a KV40 of 75 and HTHS of 3.8, which is already more than adequate for these power levels. The M1 15w50 is going to be viscous at all temperatures.

Obviously it's got better specs than a mineral 20w50 and as such should replace all loose clearance applications calling for a 50 grade but this Mustang could benefit from a lower HTHS product like M1 0w40.

For comparison something like mineral based Castrol GTX 20w50 has a KV40 of 159 while maintaining a KV100 at 18 cSt still. Much lower viscosity index.

 

[Doktor_Bert]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Having owned one of these I can say quite honestly that a 15w50 is absurd in this engine.
I ran everything from 20 grades to 40 grades in mine,and 500+ pounds of nitrous and I can say from experience the engine was sluggish at part throttle with heavier oil...


FWIW, we ran every kind of oil you can name in every imaginable viscosity and never saw a significant difference in RWHP/TQ over hundreds of dyno runs with an in-house dyno.

I can also atest, from actual dyno and track testing, that we have recorded 10 RWHP gains from tuning that you couldn't 'feel' at the track.

BMW 10/w60 was created for a reason and I believe that 'reason' is high teperature film strength.

Thoughts???

 

[Doktor_Bert]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I had mach springs which dropped it an inch or so and it cornered like it was on rails. I suggest ditching the 15w-50 and try a 0w-40. Or even a 30 grade. The mod motors don't need anything that thick.


I am also running the 'Bullitt' springs which lower the car about 1" and it does handle very well.

We ran the 4.6's in our police cars over 300,000 on Mobil 1 15/w50 year round in the Central Valley near Fresno (15,000 OCI's) and some of those cars are still running as taxis...

 

[Doktor_Bert]

@ Clevy - I am now running Liqui-Moly 10/w60 Full Synthetic as a test as my supplier gives us a monthly 'comp' amount for free, because we use so much of it in the Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche/BMW's that we service.

In my 4.6, oil pressure (on a mechanical gauge) is immediate (same was 5/w20) and no tappet noise cold.

Winter temps here rarely get below 50°F. I have recorded outside temps of as high as 133°F here...FWIW

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Doktor_Bert
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Having owned one of these I can say quite honestly that a 15w50 is absurd in this engine.
I ran everything from 20 grades to 40 grades in mine,and 500+ pounds of nitrous and I can say from experience the engine was sluggish at part throttle with heavier oil...


FWIW, we ran every kind of oil you can name in every imaginable viscosity and never saw a significant difference in RWHP/TQ over hundreds of dyno runs with an in-house dyno.

I can also atest, from actual dyno and track testing, that we have recorded 10 RWHP gains from tuning that you couldn't 'feel' at the track.

BMW 10/w60 was created for a reason and I believe that 'reason' is high teperature film strength.

Thoughts???
Your oil choices are absurdly thick and will lead to poor throttle response and loss of snappiness though Power above 5K rpm my only take a minor hit - if any once the oil is hot. You shouldn't need ANYTHING over a ACEA 30 grade. Just going form sa 20 to a 30 in the '01 bullitt killed the engine response and made it feel like it was towing a 2000lb trailer. CAVEAT: The engine was not fully worn in though.

 

[Doktor_Bert]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Your oil choices are absurdly thick and will lead to poor throttle response and loss of snappiness though Power above 5K rpm my only take a minor hit - if any once the oil is hot. You shouldn't need ANYTHING over a ACEA 30 grade. Just going form sa 20 to a 30 in the '01 bullitt killed the engine response and made it feel like it was towing a 2000lb trailer. CAVEAT: The engine was not fully worn in though.


We've never seen it (parasitic loss from oil once hot) on the dyno. As previously stated, even a 10HP gain on the dyno couldn't be detected in the seat.

I don't doubt you, but I have never seen anything like what you are referring too. We have gone from 5/w20 to 15/w50 in an entire fleet of 4.6's (since brand new) to include police and public works vehicles, not to mention dyno tuning a number of 4.6's with and without blowers...never experienced what you describe...????

I'm curious!!!

In fact, 20w/50 was the only oil we used for years in sprint car engines, tow vehicles, wind machines and farm tractors.

When we tuned Frederick Aasbo's event winning Toyota Supra drift car, 20/w50 dino was the oil that he had been using, even during competitive events in Norway...FWIW