Overheard at Toyota

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We visited the girlfriends aunt down in Indianapolis last week for fall break. Her Vue was due for some new front brakes and the front axle shaft and bearing was failing. We could hear it on the interstate!

The mechanics had her convinced the brakes and rotors needed to be replaced together because of poor GM/ Honda engineering. I don't know enough about GM's (and Vues) to know whether that was true or not. She seems to have a good friendship between her and the guys at the dealer so I kept my mouth shut.

$1250 later it is fixed.. Apparently the shaft had to be sent away to get remanufactured because they no longer make them anymore? She was able to get it the following day nonetheless.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
We visited the girlfriends aunt down in Indianapolis last week for fall break. Her Vue was due for some new front brakes and the front axle shaft and bearing was failing. We could hear it on the interstate!

The mechanics had her convinced the brakes and rotors needed to be replaced together because of poor GM/ Honda engineering. I don't know enough about GM's (and Vues) to know whether that was true or not. She seems to have a good friendship between her and the guys at the dealer so I kept my mouth shut.


It is almost always preferable to replace rotors and pads together.
 
Its all about money and profit. If coins were magnetic some of these [censored] would have magnets grabbing them out of your pocket on the way out. No exaggeration.
I have been in this racket (it truly is a racket) for 42 years and organized crime has nothing on this business.

The amount scamming, thieving, lying, cheating, outright fraud, money laundering, you name it is unparalleled.
 
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Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
We visited the girlfriends aunt down in Indianapolis last week for fall break. Her Vue was due for some new front brakes and the front axle shaft and bearing was failing. We could hear it on the interstate!

The mechanics had her convinced the brakes and rotors needed to be replaced together because of poor GM/ Honda engineering. I don't know enough about GM's (and Vues) to know whether that was true or not. She seems to have a good friendship between her and the guys at the dealer so I kept my mouth shut.


It is almost always preferable to replace rotors and pads together.


I understand this, but this is because of an engineering flaw?
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: eljefino
To be fair, this is a franchised dealer owned by someone other than Toyota or Toyota of North America.



This is true. Sadly it's true for so many franchised dealerships across the USA.
Where CAN you buy a car factory direct? Tesla has the only legal challenge going to the "franchise laws" that I know of.



You can buy your new VW factory direct, just build and order the car online, and go to Wolfsburg to collect it.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbob
Service person tells customer "we may as well do the rear brakes on your Tacoma when we do
the fronts." I felt bad for the customer that believed it should be done. I gave the service
guy the "Stinkeye" and just shook my head. He got it!


Were you able to inspect the rear brakes and verify that the dealer was replacing serviceable parts? Maybe the rest of the conversation you didn't hear had to do with the friction material being within 1-2mm of discard and they were trying to save the customer another trip in for service later on.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: eljefino
To be fair, this is a franchised dealer owned by someone other than Toyota or Toyota of North America.



This is true. Sadly it's true for so many franchised dealerships across the USA.
Where CAN you buy a car factory direct? Tesla has the only legal challenge going to the "franchise laws" that I know of.



You can buy your new VW factory direct, just build and order the car online, and go to Wolfsburg to collect it.
Our laws are different.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Sunday, a friend brought his Accord by because it was making a noise. Turns out the pads were completely gone and starting to eat into the rotor. It has the integrated parking brake, so the piston is threaded. The piston won't go back in so he has to have it go to a shop. That's going to be mucho dinero.


Has to? If you can't slip the caliper over the rotor ridge, just grind the ridge down on the rotor. If it just needs the caliper piston be rotated, just get this for $38: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RDGMNM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8

I couldn't get my Dakota front caliper off last week because one of the caliper pins stripped out the hex key socket. I removed the other pin, ground a pad ear off with an angle grinder, rotated around the stuck pin, removed the pads and removed the caliper.

There's always a way. If you're replacing rotors or calipers anyway, you don't even need to be careful.

Since we're talking about Accords, Million Mile Joe religiously replaced his rears every 300,000 miles. I've always thought mine should last that long, but usually something intervenes to junk them early, like the shoe friction material cracking or a wheel cylinder leaking. By "early" I mean 15 years/150K miles or so.
smile.gif


Originally Posted By: supton
I think you generalize too much. My vintage Jetta is well known for wearing rear brake pads at a rate of 2x the front pads. They are also known for needing new calipers at brake time (something about the rear calipers, they just plain get sticky).


You're right. While most vehicles are gentle on rear shoes/pads, Honda Pilots wear them out at 80-90K miles, while the fronts last 90K-100K miles. Terrible engineering, huh?


I broke one of those trying to rotate it. 10 years of northeast road salt has made them not able to turn at all.
 
@HerrStig

Your laws may be different as far as US operations are concerned, but there is no law against you shopping online, no law against you flying to Germany and no laws stopping you from bringing your new car home.

In much the same way as pot being illegal in America, but it's perfectly ok for Americans to get high in the Netherlands

The law only applies to the country which made it
 
Originally Posted By: bobbob
Service person tells customer "we may as well do the rear brakes on your Tacoma when we do
the fronts." I felt bad for the customer that believed it should be done. I gave the service
guy the "Stinkeye" and just shook my head. He got it!


why dont you speak your mind out loud next time and see what that gets you? easy enough to conjecture on an anonymous internet forum, but be a man next time and tell us the results.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all about money and profit. If coins were magnetic some of these would have magnets grabbing them out of your pocket on the way out. No exaggeration.
I have been in this racket (it truly is a racket) for 42 years and organized crime has nothing on this business.

The amount scamming, thieving, lying, cheating, outright fraud, money laundering, you name it is unparalleled.
Wow, that is pretty scathing indictment:-( Unfortunately, your credentials are impeccable and you obviously know the inside of the industry.
 
A number of years ago a big dealer in the Lowell/ Lawrence area was busted for running a huge warranty scam out of 2 motel rooms near the dealership.
One also nearby you was in a real pickle with GM and the Police for selling cars on paper for cash then arranging a fake robbery.

There was one chain of dealerships also in the area that had Ford, Subaru and a couple of other chasing them around. I could tell you things that would leave you open jawed.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
A number of years ago a big dealer in the Lowell/ Lawrence area was busted for running a huge warranty scam out of 2 motel rooms near the dealership.
One also nearby you was in a real pickle with GM and the Police for selling cars on paper for cash then arranging a fake robbery.

There was one chain of dealerships also in the area that had Ford, Subaru and a couple of other chasing them around. I could tell you things that would leave you open jawed.


What the sales dept is doing is not always indicative of the whole operation, though it can be.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Its all about money and profit. If coins were magnetic some of these would have magnets grabbing them out of your pocket on the way out. No exaggeration.
I have been in this racket (it truly is a racket) for 42 years and organized crime has nothing on this business.

The amount scamming, thieving, lying, cheating, outright fraud, money laundering, you name it is unparalleled.


Bingo Trav....

I'm glad my other posts regarding $tealerships is confirmed by you.

I too have been in the $tealership retail end of the automotive business (worked in the shop doing PDI , details, and paint and body work) and I can say that out of the seven stores I worked in
ONLY ONE was mostly honest, and competent, in the the service and sales end of the store, and it was the first dealership I worked at way back in 1984. The other six outfits were absolutely horrible in every way they were all dishonest, and incompetent in both the sales and service areas.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
@HerrStig

Your laws may be different as far as US operations are concerned, but there is no law against you shopping online, no law against you flying to Germany and no laws stopping you from bringing your new car home.

In much the same way as pot being illegal in America, but it's perfectly ok for Americans to get high in the Netherlands

The law only applies to the country which made it


Ummm... No. In the US you cannot import cars willy-nilly. Oh sure you can buy but come time to register it for the road... no go. I don't think you can even bring into the country if it doesn't meet current specifications/requirements. I haven't read up on it in a bit, I know there is a 25 year rule which applies (if older than 25 then it can be imported).

Otherwise someone would be making a killing importing your 50-60mpg econoboxes!
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
We visited the girlfriends aunt down in Indianapolis last week for fall break. Her Vue was due for some new front brakes and the front axle shaft and bearing was failing. We could hear it on the interstate!

The mechanics had her convinced the brakes and rotors needed to be replaced together because of poor GM/ Honda engineering. I don't know enough about GM's (and Vues) to know whether that was true or not. She seems to have a good friendship between her and the guys at the dealer so I kept my mouth shut.

$1250 later it is fixed.. Apparently the shaft had to be sent away to get remanufactured because they no longer make them anymore? She was able to get it the following day nonetheless.


B-S you can buy them brand new on RockAuto.com....

3.5l V6 right? 5-speed auto?

Your G/F's Aunt got taken and they let you watch lol
 
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Ignorance is expensive in many/most cases. It's not unique to automobile service. You can find the same in almost any field. There are those who will take advantage of a customer's ignorance to their benefit and the customer's expense. Others will not.

There are some scenarios where this is more common. But it's not unique to any one industry.

Since you have no control over what a shop or business may or may not do, your best defense is to educate yourself and/or get multiple opinions.
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Ignorance is expensive in many/most cases. It's not unique to automobile service. You can find the same in almost any field. There are those who will take advantage of a customer's ignorance to their benefit and the customer's expense. Others will not.

There are some scenarios where this is more common. But it's not unique to any one industry.

Since you have no control over what a shop or business may or may not do, your best defense is to educate yourself and/or get multiple opinions.


No! You're wrong! It's a con$piracy and all $tealerships are in on it! No other industry ever cheats anyone, only $tealerships! /sarcasm

In any industry you have good people, you have bad people, and you have apathetic people who fall somewhere in between. Most people, at $tealerships included, do not have malicious intent, but some do. Being an educated consumer and not an idiot helps to catch those people in the act and keep from getting taken.

Most people refuse to educate themselves about their vehicles, because that's for hicks, poor people, and dumb people who work on cars for a living. These types are ripe pickings for a greedy service writer who will spot them a mile away and suggest everything under the sun for their car. Often times these types are more responsive to gimmicks and things their car doesn't need than they are to good advice. I can't stand idiot customers, but as much as I don't like them, I don't want to steal from them either. This is why I won't work on or sell services for other people's cars anymore...you try to be honest and they just get confused, or think you are trying to steal from them because they are confused. Tell them to flush this or that out, put some nitrogen in the tires, etc...and they are all for it. [censored]? It's like people who download every kind of malware they can find for their computer because they click on every "WINDOWS UPDATE - YOUR COMPUTER INFECTED!!!" ad they see.

I think most people start out in this industry with the best intentions, but many get burned out when it's not like working on cars for fun, and after a while they just go for the quick buck or easy buck. They lose the passion. Some stay passionate about what they do, but go a little (or a lot) crazy. It's not the international "Goldberg" con$piracy or whatever some here think it is. It is a stressful industry though and there will be good and bad apples in it.

One important thing to note, Trav's examples were of sales dept antics. Selling cars is a whole different topic.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl


In any industry you have good people, you have bad people, and you have apathetic people who fall somewhere in between. Most people, at $tealerships included, do not have malicious intent, but some do. Being an educated consumer and not an idiot helps to catch those people in the act and keep from getting taken.


Not in this business, and I too speak from experience, for some reason the service end of the business also seems to attract the sleaziest employees overall. There are good ones, heck I worked at a number of stores, but by far MOST of the service department was staffed by questionable characters in most stores.
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Most people refuse to educate themselves about their vehicles, because that's for hicks, poor people, and dumb people who work on cars for a living. These types are ripe pickings for a greedy service writer who will spot them a mile away and suggest everything under the sun for their car. Often times these types are more responsive to gimmicks and things their car doesn't need than they are to good advice. I can't stand idiot customers, but as much as I don't like them, I don't want to steal from them either. This is why I won't work on or sell services for other people's cars anymore...you try to be honest and they just get confused, or think you are trying to steal from them because they are confused..


What I found during my time working at $tealer service departments, was that the SW had a general contempt for ALL customers, not just the uninformed, or as you like to say "idiots". I would say that it actually annoyed those SWs when a customer did have a good understanding of their vehicle because then they could not screw them over, I saw this repeatedly first hand.

Also RARELY did most of the SWs want to be bothered explaining the reasons for various service needs to most customers. Again they usually were annoyed when a customer wanted to have things explained to them as it took up their precious time.


Of course there is no "conspiracy" with the criminality and incompetence you find at $tealer service departments it more likely is a result of the often times terrible management and
the $tealership business model itself.


I will add that even many indy shops are pretty awful too.
Not to mention the dreaded chain shops.
 
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