Synthetic Blends, redemption through dexos?

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Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Ashland/Valvoline passing on the Dexos 1 label is a purely financial decision, they don't want to pay the royalty-and Dexos has (somewhat) opened a can of worms in the motor oil certification business. Every company now seems to have exotic oil certifications, such as FIAT's new specs for high performance engines, etc.-wondering if they all cost a royalty as Dexos does?


Fiat has always had them, just like BMW, Mercedes, VW...etc. Even GM had them "back in the day", there just wasn't the royalty scheme associated with it. Ford's WSS approvals have been around for ages as well.

What we are seeing now is more exposure being given to them due to Dexos and GM as well as FIAT's ownership of Chrysler.
 
If an oil meets a spec required by the manufacturer of your vehicle who cars what's in the bottle?

A few years ago a taxi company compared Motorcraft 5w-20 with Mobil 1 5w-20 and the tear down results showed no difference after a year in service at about 100-125K miles on each of 4 vehicles so the company now uses Motorcraft. When asked what the blend ratio is the head of maintenance answers that he has no idea and could care less. I know taxi service does not represent daily driver service but it's at least an indicator that blends might be a good oil and at least up to the job.
 
With Mobil 1 being so cheap at Costco and Walmart, why would anyone want to go with a dino oil or a blend?

Mobil 1 offers excellent benefits for longer OCIs for worry free driving. The cost difference between dino and synthetics like Mobil 1 isn't huge these days isn't like it was 20 years ago.

Go with Mobil 1, and don't look back.
 
The premise of the thread really wasnt to decide between marketing labels: syn v synblend v dino. It was to evaluate syn blends acceptance after dexos vs before.
 
Exactly. Having a dexos1 certified synthetic blend can entice people who would otherwise not buy a synthetic blend into purchasing one. There certainly will be cases where someone who's used to conventional winds up with a dexos1 type vehicle and really doesn't want to spend the money on a dexos1 licensed synthetic, but they want to use a properly licensed oil. A licensed blend might be the key for them. Look at what Valvoline has accomplished with MaxLife. It was already a favorite among the HM oils, then went to SN/GF-5, and then became dexos1 licensed. That opens up many more potential buyers.
 
Well, one thing this thread is missing is the do-it-for-me oil change places using bulk oil vs. the DIY consumer and retail shelf space etc.

A number of do-it-for-me places don't offer a bulk oil conventional oil change anymore. AAA Car Care Plus and Tireman in my area are two I'm aware of, I'm sure there are others. Base oil change is under $20 and includes API certified synthetic blend oil for $20 including filter & labor for up to 5 quarts.

How well can a $19 five quart bottle on a retail shelf effectively compete with that?

This is why I think things like Pennzoil Gold and Mobil Clean 7500 have left the retail shelves.

A big economic question will really be how many bulk oils sent to do-it-for-me oil change centers will be Dexos certified?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Exactly. Having a dexos1 certified synthetic blend can entice people who would otherwise not buy a synthetic blend into purchasing one. There certainly will be cases where someone who's used to conventional winds up with a dexos1 type vehicle and really doesn't want to spend the money on a dexos1 licensed synthetic, but they want to use a properly licensed oil. A licensed blend might be the key for them. Look at what Valvoline has accomplished with MaxLife. It was already a favorite among the HM oils, then went to SN/GF-5, and then became dexos1 licensed. That opens up many more potential buyers.


This is right on point!
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Well, one thing this thread is missing is the do-it-for-me oil change places using bulk oil vs. the DIY consumer and retail shelf space etc.

A number of do-it-for-me places don't offer a bulk oil conventional oil change anymore. AAA Car Care Plus and Tireman in my area are two I'm aware of, I'm sure there are others. Base oil change is under $20 and includes API certified synthetic blend oil for $20 including filter & labor for up to 5 quarts.

How well can a $19 five quart bottle on a retail shelf effectively compete with that?

This is why I think things like Pennzoil Gold and Mobil Clean 7500 have left the retail shelves.

A big economic question will really be how many bulk oils sent to do-it-for-me oil change centers will be Dexos certified?


A very good observaiton. Here (in my area at least), Firestone/Tires Plus/Tire Kingdom, all offer Kendall GT-1 blend as their basic oil change, running specials for $19.99 all the time. Actually, when one isn't, the other one is.
 
Syn blends appeared previously to have found a niche in HM oils, like Maxlife and more recently Defy.
Either some additional synthetic basestock content is required to make a dexos compliant oil, which I doubt, or blenders have chosen to rebrand a lower tier offering as a synthetic blend, since that what it was to begin with even though not labeled as such, to justify a higher price allowing blenders to recover dexos royalty payments.
IOW the name is not necessarily the game.
 
Hokiefyd,

+1000

One of the most articulate, well thought-out replies I have seen here in quite some time. Reading it brought back memories of the good old days of BITOG.

Take care,
Gary
 
IMHO, Dexos approval has little to do with the quality of the oil. It has to do with the manufacturer of the oil paying tribute to GM to say that they are "Dexos Approved". Many oils will meet or exceed GM's specifications. They just have not paid GM bribery charges to say on their label that they are "Dexos Approved".
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
... Many oils will meet or exceed GM's specifications. They just have not paid GM bribery charges to say on their label that they are "Dexos Approved".


Which ones?
 
Many people tend to choose "middle of the road" on a product, no matter what the product is, rather than the "low" or "high". Peace of mind. Synthetic Blends cater to the middle-of-the-road crowd. Honestly, most name brand conventional oils run about $15/5qt (give or take a dollar or two). Synthetic blends run around $18 per 5qt. Synthetic motor oils run $22-$25 for 5qt.
Not a huge difference price wise no matter how you look at it. Run a conventional and change it every 3k. Run a synthetic and change it every 8k. In the end, the price difference will be pretty negligible. Given the choice, I would probably run a conventional at 5k-7k or a synthetic for 10k. With the lines pretty blurred and the differences so narrow between conventional and synthetic oils these days, I don't see much sense in a synthetic-blend anymore. I think they will remain popular with the middle-of-the-road crowd and those with little education regarding motor oils in general.
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: otis24
... Many oils will meet or exceed GM's specifications. They just have not paid GM bribery charges to say on their label that they are "Dexos Approved".


Which ones?


Probably almost everyone with an API approval. I would hazard to say that you could pick almost any name brand oil on the shelf. The only thing standing between them and a Dexos Approval is a check made out to GM for the right to tattoo their bottles "Dexos Approved".
 
I dont think I'm qualified enough to say people who use blends are less educated about oil than others. Choices are made for a multitude of reasons. Different strokes I guess...
 
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I don't think people who choose blends are less educated. I think the majority of people are uneducated about motor oil. People in general tend to choose "middle-of-the-road" on any product (no matter what that product may be), when given a choice between "good, better, best".
 
Originally Posted By: otis24
I don't think people who choose blends are less educated. I think the majority of people are uneducated about motor oil. People in general tend to choose "middle-of-the-road" on any product (no matter what that product may be), when given a choice between "good, better, best".



Ah, I see your point. Agreed.
 
Originally Posted By: Tucson Five-O
Hokiefyd,

+1000

One of the most articulate, well thought-out replies I have seen here in quite some time. Reading it brought back memories of the good old days of BITOG.

Take care,
Gary


Gary, thank you for your kind words.
 
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