I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
Why Don't people enjoy driving a manual trans??
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Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
My commute is about 50 miles to Silicon Valley. While it's moving most of the way, there's almost always stop and go some of the way unless it's an unusually easy day. I put about 18,000 miles a year now.
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
My commute is about 50 miles to Silicon Valley. While it's moving most of the way, there's almost always stop and go some of the way unless it's an unusually easy day. I put about 18,000 miles a year now.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
What does this have to do with transmission type? Manuals in stop and go traffic are a royal PITA to drive!
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
What does this have to do with transmission type? Manuals in stop and go traffic are a royal PITA to drive!
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
What does this have to do with transmission type? Manuals in stop and go traffic are a royal PITA to drive!
My point is that, with a manual trans, you have much more incentive to maintain a constant speed, like a large truck does. But with everyone having an auto, stomping on each pedal is just as easy to do, so there is more stopping and going then there has to be in "stop and go" traffic.
I don't have much time in "stop and go" but I did find it wasn't too bad if I was conscious of letting out the clutch when ever I could, and just trying to maintain the average speeed of traffic, instead of trying to stay glued to the car in front of me.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
What does this have to do with transmission type? Manuals in stop and go traffic are a royal PITA to drive!
My point is that, with a manual trans, you have much more incentive to maintain a constant speed, like a large truck does. But with everyone having an auto, stomping on each pedal is just as easy to do, so there is more stopping and going then there has to be in "stop and go" traffic.
I don't have much time in "stop and go" but I did find it wasn't too bad if I was conscious of letting out the clutch when ever I could, and just trying to maintain the average speeed of traffic, instead of trying to stay glued to the car in front of me.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
What does this have to do with transmission type? Manuals in stop and go traffic are a royal PITA to drive!
My point is that, with a manual trans, you have much more incentive to maintain a constant speed, like a large truck does. But with everyone having an auto, stomping on each pedal is just as easy to do, so there is more stopping and going then there has to be in "stop and go" traffic.
I don't have much time in "stop and go" but I did find it wasn't too bad if I was conscious of letting out the clutch when ever I could, and just trying to maintain the average speeed of traffic, instead of trying to stay glued to the car in front of me.
Gotcha!
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: grampi
I owned nothing but manuals until my work situation put me on the road 2500 to 3000 miles a month, which itself wouldn't be a problem if it didn't include so much stop and go traffic, but since it does, an automatic tranny is worth it's weight in gold! Otherwise, I would prefer to drive a manual...
I think automatics make stop and go worse, you never see trucks driven so stupidly to maintain 6' distance off the bumper in front of you... If everyone just idled along in 2nd gear, everyone would save gas and brakes.
What does this have to do with transmission type? Manuals in stop and go traffic are a royal PITA to drive!
My point is that, with a manual trans, you have much more incentive to maintain a constant speed, like a large truck does. But with everyone having an auto, stomping on each pedal is just as easy to do, so there is more stopping and going then there has to be in "stop and go" traffic.
I don't have much time in "stop and go" but I did find it wasn't too bad if I was conscious of letting out the clutch when ever I could, and just trying to maintain the average speeed of traffic, instead of trying to stay glued to the car in front of me.
Gotcha!
Only one stick in the entire herd here. Fun, but a bit tedious at times.
And not all of us can drive one even if we wanted to. One of my clients who is a famous race team owner waited for ages to get the perfect Modena for his collection. Then he broke his ankle! After surgery he cannot drive the car for more than 15-20 minutes, he was heartbroken.
A twin turbo jeep grand cherokee seemed to perk him up a bit...
And not all of us can drive one even if we wanted to. One of my clients who is a famous race team owner waited for ages to get the perfect Modena for his collection. Then he broke his ankle! After surgery he cannot drive the car for more than 15-20 minutes, he was heartbroken.
A twin turbo jeep grand cherokee seemed to perk him up a bit...
Originally Posted By: buster
I'd like to see more DCTs. That would bridge the gap pretty well.
"The gap" IMO is about involvement and flexibility, of which gear selection is only a part. DCTs are a step in the right direction, but not by much...
I'd like to see more DCTs. That would bridge the gap pretty well.
"The gap" IMO is about involvement and flexibility, of which gear selection is only a part. DCTs are a step in the right direction, but not by much...
The biggest problem with at/dct is their tendency to change slowly, even with manual 'mode', paddles, tiptronic etc.. The gear change is a request dealt with by the ecu, which means a delay.
Sequential boxes from the likes of quaife shift fast enough (ie. when you tell it to) but that's only because sequential boxes are most often manual.
Until a manufacturer produces a box that looks down the road and changes in anticipation of the corner/hill/gap in traffic etc, instead of slowly responding to pedal position/road speed, there will not be a satisfying to use autobox.
Sequential boxes from the likes of quaife shift fast enough (ie. when you tell it to) but that's only because sequential boxes are most often manual.
Until a manufacturer produces a box that looks down the road and changes in anticipation of the corner/hill/gap in traffic etc, instead of slowly responding to pedal position/road speed, there will not be a satisfying to use autobox.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Until a manufacturer produces a box that looks down the road and changes in anticipation of the corner/hill/gap in traffic etc, instead of slowly responding to pedal position/road speed, there will not be a satisfying to use autobox.
That's what the paddles are for though, to give you the ability to anticipate. Modern auto gearboxes in performance cars tend to have settings that tell the gearbox to keep the revs up in the meat of the powerband at all times.
Even my Camry, with its sluggish slushbox, getting it into the correct gear quickly in anticipation of a corner, gap in traffic, or short freeway on-ramp is trivial. I can get the revs where I need them to be for swift acceleration just as fast as I can in my manual equipped GTI.
The Camry's gearbox still isn't a pleasure to use from a performance point of view, but it's perfectly functional for the reasons you've just stated you prefer a manual for.
Until a manufacturer produces a box that looks down the road and changes in anticipation of the corner/hill/gap in traffic etc, instead of slowly responding to pedal position/road speed, there will not be a satisfying to use autobox.
That's what the paddles are for though, to give you the ability to anticipate. Modern auto gearboxes in performance cars tend to have settings that tell the gearbox to keep the revs up in the meat of the powerband at all times.
Even my Camry, with its sluggish slushbox, getting it into the correct gear quickly in anticipation of a corner, gap in traffic, or short freeway on-ramp is trivial. I can get the revs where I need them to be for swift acceleration just as fast as I can in my manual equipped GTI.
The Camry's gearbox still isn't a pleasure to use from a performance point of view, but it's perfectly functional for the reasons you've just stated you prefer a manual for.
On my truck I *always* use its "manual" mode. Which does nothing but lock out shifting to gears above whatever is selected. [IOW if I select "4" it will not shift above gear #4.] It's nice for tooling around in town. On flat ground it will hold 5th at 30mph but obviously not on a hill.
Is kinda nice at times to mash the pedal and have it respond by downshifting as far as it can go. Usually I can anticipate such needs but sometimes its nice to let it do that for me.
Is kinda nice at times to mash the pedal and have it respond by downshifting as far as it can go. Usually I can anticipate such needs but sometimes its nice to let it do that for me.
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: Olas
Until a manufacturer produces a box that looks down the road and changes in anticipation of the corner/hill/gap in traffic etc, instead of slowly responding to pedal position/road speed, there will not be a satisfying to use autobox.
That's what the paddles are for though, to give you the ability to anticipate. Modern auto gearboxes in performance cars tend to have settings that tell the gearbox to keep the revs up in the meat of the powerband at all times.
Even my Camry, with its sluggish slushbox, getting it into the correct gear quickly in anticipation of a corner, gap in traffic, or short freeway on-ramp is trivial. I can get the revs where I need them to be for swift acceleration just as fast as I can in my manual equipped GTI.
The Camry's gearbox still isn't a pleasure to use from a performance point of view, but it's perfectly functional for the reasons you've just stated you prefer a manual for.
I hear you, but it's a matter of personal opinion. VW DSG - the shift itself is fast, but I don't like the delay between requesting it, and it actually happening.
Honda CRV w/AT - frustratingly slow and inaccurate.
quaife sequential w/pneumatic powered paddles - shift time is similar to DSG but the shift is a demand, rather than a request. As close as possible to a truly instant gearchange.
Use a proper sequential box, then go back to the Camry, and then try to maintain your opinion that it's 'fast enough'..
Originally Posted By: Olas
Until a manufacturer produces a box that looks down the road and changes in anticipation of the corner/hill/gap in traffic etc, instead of slowly responding to pedal position/road speed, there will not be a satisfying to use autobox.
That's what the paddles are for though, to give you the ability to anticipate. Modern auto gearboxes in performance cars tend to have settings that tell the gearbox to keep the revs up in the meat of the powerband at all times.
Even my Camry, with its sluggish slushbox, getting it into the correct gear quickly in anticipation of a corner, gap in traffic, or short freeway on-ramp is trivial. I can get the revs where I need them to be for swift acceleration just as fast as I can in my manual equipped GTI.
The Camry's gearbox still isn't a pleasure to use from a performance point of view, but it's perfectly functional for the reasons you've just stated you prefer a manual for.
I hear you, but it's a matter of personal opinion. VW DSG - the shift itself is fast, but I don't like the delay between requesting it, and it actually happening.
Honda CRV w/AT - frustratingly slow and inaccurate.
quaife sequential w/pneumatic powered paddles - shift time is similar to DSG but the shift is a demand, rather than a request. As close as possible to a truly instant gearchange.
Use a proper sequential box, then go back to the Camry, and then try to maintain your opinion that it's 'fast enough'..
Originally Posted By: Olas
I hear you, but it's a matter of personal opinion. VW DSG - the shift itself is fast, but I don't like the delay between requesting it, and it actually happening.
Honda CRV w/AT - frustratingly slow and inaccurate.
quaife sequential w/pneumatic powered paddles - shift time is similar to DSG but the shift is a demand, rather than a request. As close as possible to a truly instant gearchange.
Use a proper sequential box, then go back to the Camry, and then try to maintain your opinion that it's 'fast enough'..
Yeah, I think with manual transmission you pretty much always know what you're going to get as far as how it works.
Auto transmissions are a much more mixed bag with a lot of different competing technologies that all behave differently.
I have used a fair number of sequential gearboxes, and as great as those are for performance and shift speed, one would be totally out of place in the vehicle my wife uses to go grocery shopping. For how the vehicle is used, the gearbox in it is, at worst, perfectly adequate.
But I do think it would be pretty sweet to have a sports car with a true sequential box, that would be fun.
I hear you, but it's a matter of personal opinion. VW DSG - the shift itself is fast, but I don't like the delay between requesting it, and it actually happening.
Honda CRV w/AT - frustratingly slow and inaccurate.
quaife sequential w/pneumatic powered paddles - shift time is similar to DSG but the shift is a demand, rather than a request. As close as possible to a truly instant gearchange.
Use a proper sequential box, then go back to the Camry, and then try to maintain your opinion that it's 'fast enough'..
Yeah, I think with manual transmission you pretty much always know what you're going to get as far as how it works.
Auto transmissions are a much more mixed bag with a lot of different competing technologies that all behave differently.
I have used a fair number of sequential gearboxes, and as great as those are for performance and shift speed, one would be totally out of place in the vehicle my wife uses to go grocery shopping. For how the vehicle is used, the gearbox in it is, at worst, perfectly adequate.
But I do think it would be pretty sweet to have a sports car with a true sequential box, that would be fun.
I've probably already thrown my two cents into this thread, but I think I'll make another observation.
I used to think that only peasants bought performance oriented cars like BMWs with automatics, but a lot depends upon intended use.
For example, I left the house today around 7:15 AM and finally left work at about 8:15 PM.
The drive home in my familiar old BMW was comfortable and easy, but I think that I only had to come to a complete stop three times in twenty five miles and I was driving the car in what I call the automatic mode, shifting at moderate revs and maintaining around sixty or so on the wide, smooth rural two-lane.
This is my daily commute.
If my daily commute consisted of twenty five miles of dense traffic, then I might have to reconsider the desirability of a stick.
I've been stuck in traffic with various stick cars and while it's manageable it does make things a little harder.
I do agree that everyone should learn how to operate a car with three pedals and that for most drivers as they use their cars most of the time, a stick is not any hardship.
It's just more entertaining and more engaging.
I used to think that only peasants bought performance oriented cars like BMWs with automatics, but a lot depends upon intended use.
For example, I left the house today around 7:15 AM and finally left work at about 8:15 PM.
The drive home in my familiar old BMW was comfortable and easy, but I think that I only had to come to a complete stop three times in twenty five miles and I was driving the car in what I call the automatic mode, shifting at moderate revs and maintaining around sixty or so on the wide, smooth rural two-lane.
This is my daily commute.
If my daily commute consisted of twenty five miles of dense traffic, then I might have to reconsider the desirability of a stick.
I've been stuck in traffic with various stick cars and while it's manageable it does make things a little harder.
I do agree that everyone should learn how to operate a car with three pedals and that for most drivers as they use their cars most of the time, a stick is not any hardship.
It's just more entertaining and more engaging.
I have a bad left knee and using the clutch a lot in stop and go traffic kills it after just a little bit.
Wayne
Wayne
I prefer a manual transmission. My 2 cars were both selected in part because they had a manual transmission - a 2000 BMW 528i 5MT, and a 2007 Honda Accord 4 Dr V6 6MT.
Manual transmissions are at their best in very slippery conditions. I've done a 360 + 180 degree spin on ice and left the scene driving backwards. Try that in an automatic.
I've sold old cars because I had concerns about the auto transmission. I've never even considered selling an old car because of a failing clutch or manual transmission - my brand new Accord 6MT transmission failed but that's a different story.
I know manuals are harder to drive in city traffic, that modern dual clutch transmissions shift faster, and that most cars get slightly better mileage with their autos, and I don't care.
What the world needs more of are reliable, fun to drive cars with a manual transmission and a full size spare tire.
Ecotourist
Manual transmissions are at their best in very slippery conditions. I've done a 360 + 180 degree spin on ice and left the scene driving backwards. Try that in an automatic.
I've sold old cars because I had concerns about the auto transmission. I've never even considered selling an old car because of a failing clutch or manual transmission - my brand new Accord 6MT transmission failed but that's a different story.
I know manuals are harder to drive in city traffic, that modern dual clutch transmissions shift faster, and that most cars get slightly better mileage with their autos, and I don't care.
What the world needs more of are reliable, fun to drive cars with a manual transmission and a full size spare tire.
Ecotourist
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