How long did you go on factory fill?

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Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Special break in oil hogwash.

Wear in metals are abrasive.

Factory fill has successfully made it to my driveway and never made it out of the driveway.

Pay how much for a new vehicle?? and skimp out on a few oil changes costing $30?

Environmentalist brainwashing using fear scare tactics to help you run your vehicle into the ground. Lowering the cost of ownership for brainwashed marketing reasons is foolish.


wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: used_0il
Here is a little challenge everyone who buys a new car or truck can perform;

Drain the oil after 1000 miles or less, if you like how it looks, pour it back
into the engine.

With the exception of some expensive German imports, such as Mercedes which states in
the owners manual: "We go to great lengths........so you don't have to."
Referring to an immediate oil change that some owners perform.

I would bet that very few of you would pour 1000 mile oil back into your engines
after looking at it in the sunlight.

The "right away and 25%" answer, and the "its your car" answer I thought were the best.

Why? On top of the sand and casting bits that you drain out with the first couple
of oil changes, I believe that new engines are hard on the oil's additive package
and there is a "layering-up" of anti-wear additives that are consumed in the process.

But, that is just me and the things I believe to be true.

Yeah, drain it out to look at it and pour it back in - no risk of contamination doing that. You should do that every 1000 miles just for fun. "On top of the sand and casting bits that you drain out with the first couple of oil changes" - what the.... does your car come with an oil filter? With this kind of advice, you're successfully imitating an escaped mental patient. On my son's 2013 Dodge Dart, we followed the OLM - 8 months and 9400 miles on the factory fill. I'm sure the cylinder walls are FUBAR because we didn't get all the sand out early enough.
 
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I tend to buy fewer new cars anymore, but like to change fairly early either way-as much as anything, 'to get a look at it'. I've also cut open the factory oil filter to inspect and add a magnetic drain plug-sometimes added the plug right away. At times there has been a fair amount of 'trash' -usually a small amount. I can't imagine pouring used oil back into an engine
 
This is turning into another back-and-forth about something we already know the answer to:

Follow the guidance in the OM or change it at the dealer before you drive it off the lot for the first time; it matters not.

You will crash, trade it in, or it will rust away long before you have engine issues related to when you changed the FF.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Special break in oil hogwash.

Wear in metals are abrasive.

Factory fill has successfully made it to my driveway and never made it out of the driveway.

Pay how much for a new vehicle?? and skimp out on a few oil changes costing $30?

Environmentalist brainwashing using fear scare tactics to help you run your vehicle into the ground. Lowering the cost of ownership for brainwashed marketing reasons is foolish.



Really?? I remember early first oil changes were advised by the dealer back in the day. Since my 3 most recent car purchases in 2008, 2011 & 2014 I've never been told by the dealer and/or read in the owners manual of an early first oil change that was required. I just followed severe duty maintenance schedule and dropped the factory fill oil @ 5000 km's (3,100 miles) All of my vehicles have never had any issues with the engine and one of them has now reached well over a 100,000 km's. After reading your post I never knew that I was killing my vehicles and that the dealers, manufactures and engineers have formed a conspiracy to destroy our cars. I now feel stupid that I got duped after all these years. Thanks for the info and I will know better for the next vehicle purchase.
wink.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Special break in oil hogwash.
Environmentalist brainwashing using fear scare tactics to help you run your vehicle into the ground. Lowering the cost of ownership for brainwashed marketing reasons is foolish.


Where is Chris Carter when I need him, C'MON MAN!

In my '11 OM, under the heading 'Break-in Period', it specifically states "Do not change the oil until the scheduled maintenance time". Since it lists this in the context of "break in" it is referring specifically to the FF oil. I have never changed the FF in our Honda vehicles one second early, they go on to have nice UOAs and last longer than most other things in my life. They also run efficiently don't consume oil(except when first changing brands).

But you are right this must be one of two things:
1) Acquiescence to the environmentalist at the potential cost of long term reliability.
2) An effort to make 5-year ownership costs $45 lower and thus notch it above Toyota by about the same amount--also at the potential cost of long term reliability.

The only problem with the above two arguments is of course that long term reliability for the brand is stellar.
 
Originally Posted By: Oily_hair
I never knew that I was killing my vehicles and that the dealers, manufactures and engineers have formed a conspiracy to destroy our cars.


Wow, what a logical and rationally reasoned argument...congratulations.

Part of selling cars is marketting.

When my Brother's company were looking at vehicles, they looked at Toyotas and the like, but bought Mitsubishi diesels because:
a) they didn't have a 1,000km service;
b) didn't have a "severe service" 5,000km regime, but "regular" services at 15,000km;
c) that was with regular dino oils; and
d) had 100,000km powertrain warranties...

It was all about marketting and normal distribution of failures...and consumers wanting to feel that not doing things is better than doing them.

Nearly every piece of industrial equipment I'v ever installed has a short initial OCI/service, if it doesn't have a specific flushing regime that may take days or weeks before first turning the shaft.

There's nothing "optimum" (nor even magic) about a regular OCI for the very first interval on a new car...it's marketting.

And it obviously works, as you are creating conspiracy strawmen in your defence of it.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Consider looking at it this way for the sake of argument: Do a UOA on a new car after lets say at 2,000 miles. The wear metals are high, that's normal for a new engine breaking in. OK fine. Take those same results and apply to an engine that has been broken in, then post those results on the board and people would freak out. Some might even be giving the engine last rites. The question is, do you feel OK with the break in metals staying in your engine? If so then leave the oil for the full OCI, if not drop the oil early.

Honda claims they use a special break in oil, if you own a Honda you might want to follow their lead. It has been stated time and time again, many of the other automakers don't use special break in oils. Bottom line, it's your car do what you feel is best, in the end that's what most people do ................


Best is usually what the OEM manual says whilst under warranty.

When did the OEM manual instruct "Do what you feel is best" ?

Time to settle down here again.
 
Thank you everyone for your responses and insight. I had a 2012 Toyota Highlander with the v6. On my first change there was some some metal shavings in the internal filter. I know it's a different OEM but I'm pretty sure the manufacturing processes are very similar. So the plan is to drop it between now and 3500, second change will be between 3500 and 4000 and then I'll be doing 5000 oil changes. I also plan on( and don't flame me) changing the Fram Ultra every time. It's only 2 to 3 bucks more compared to a tough guard so to me it's not a huge loss and I'll sleep better.
 
Originally Posted By: Cardiobuck
2) An effort to make 5-year ownership costs $45 lower and thus notch it above Toyota by about the same amount--also at the potential cost of long term reliability.

The only problem with the above two arguments is of course that long term reliability for the brand is stellar.


That's what Mitsubishi were doing...15,000km servicing versus 10,000km (or 5,000km "severe") meant not so much saving your $45, but less time at the dealer (serious if you are in business, and don' want vehicle off the road)

Reliability is a distribution of probabilities...the average service interval could be extended quite drastically to double the failure rate...which would still make it tiny.
 
My 2003 BMW I had the oil changed at about 5900 miles, the service indicator still showed 9700 miles to the first service.
The UOA history for this car is listed in these forums but I didn't start until about 20,000 miles, it was the fourth oil change.

My 2013 Harley I had the oil changed at 1000 miles as recommended by HD. That UOA is also listed here.
 
The last two cars we bought new were the '09 Forester and the '12 Accord.
I drained the FF from the Forester at 1K and than ran a 3K OCI, after which I went to normal intervals.
For the Honda, I followed the OM, which for that model year strongly recommended that the FF be left in for a normal interval.
I drained it at 8700 miles and 15% MM.
I used to be a proponent of early FF drains, but I doubt that it really matters either way.
Unless an early drain is recommended in the OM, as it is for some engines, I wouldn't worry about it either way.
 
Originally Posted By: virginoil


When did the OEM manual instruct "Do what you feel is best" ?


In answer to your question, never. But doing what they feel is best is what a lot of people do when it comes to what to do with the FF. Especially since a lot of owners manuals give no guidance with regard changing it. The question comes up several times a year in one form or another, and has been answered pretty much the same as it has in this thread.

Everyone of these threads travels down the same path. Those will say they've never dumped the FF early and their engines outlasted the car. Others will say the excess metals are harmful, and want the oil out early. My suggestion was to curb the possibility of another battle and to simply put a spin on what someone else said.
 
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On our 2008 CR-V I ran the factory oil until the OLM got to 15%....which turned out to be a little over 9,000 miles. Been doing the same thing ever since and the car has over 100,000 miles now with zero issues.
 
I have the same vehicle. I just changed mine at 5k with Mobil 1 0w20 AFE and a Honda 01 Filter. I also added 150ml of Liqui Moly MOS2 Anti-Friction Engine treatment. My OLM was at 30%.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieBoy
Van was 5 months from manufactured date when bought. OEM said to change at 6K mi. or 6 mo. I changed it at 1K mi. & 1 mo. (+5 = 6 mo.) So I got to change it early like I wanted and also followed the manual.


Smart. That's one thing I know I've always overlooked for the first OCI on a new vehicle - the manufacture date.



and I agree with this post.

Originally Posted By: used_0il
Here is a little challenge everyone who buys a new car or truck can perform;

Drain the oil after 1000 miles or less, if you like how it looks, pour it back
into the engine.

With the exception of some expensive German imports, such as Mercedes which states in
the owners manual: "We go to great lengths........so you don't have to."
Referring to an immediate oil change that some owners perform.

I would bet that very few of you would pour 1000 mile oil back into your engines
after looking at it in the sunlight.

The "right away and 25%" answer, and the "its your car" answer I thought were the best.

Why? On top of the sand and casting bits that you drain out with the first couple
of oil changes, I believe that new engines are hard on the oil's additive package
and there is a "layering-up" of anti-wear additives that are consumed in the process.

But, that is just me and the things I believe to be true.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: StevieBoy
Van was 5 months from manufactured date when bought. OEM said to change at 6K mi. or 6 mo. I changed it at 1K mi. & 1 mo. (+5 = 6 mo.) So I got to change it early like I wanted and also followed the manual.


Smart. That's one thing I know I've always overlooked for the first OCI on a new vehicle - the manufacture date.



That was a smart post.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Special break in oil hogwash.

Wear in metals are abrasive.

Factory fill has successfully made it to my driveway and never made it out of the driveway.

Pay how much for a new vehicle?? and skimp out on a few oil changes costing $30?

Environmentalist brainwashing using fear scare tactics to help you run your vehicle into the ground. Lowering the cost of ownership for brainwashed marketing reasons is foolish.


Your right! I like to get that garbage out ASAP. I change it at 100, 500 and 1K then go normal OCI.
I have no problem spending an extra 100 to get that garbage out of the engine.
 
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