Amsoil HDD 5w-30 at 46K; '05 Dmax

[ihookem1]

Original poster here. I got my uoa back. It has 13,500 mi. on oil. 188k on the motor still does not burn much oil, about 1qt. in 6-7k.

iron 21
cronium 21
lead 4
copper 8
tin 1
al 2
silver 1
nickel 1

silicon 9
sodium 8
pot 25
water .05
coolant 0

vis. 11.5
fuel 1 %
soot 1

TBN 8.1
TAN 2.7

Oil again was Amsoil 5w30 HDD series 3000. I will go another 15k and get another oil sample.

 

[dnewton3]

You're on the right track. EXTEND THAT OCI!

Very impressive TBN after 13.5k miles. Everything else looks to be able to sustain the longer runs.


What are the condemnation levels you've set for soot, TBN, wear metals, etc?


PS - I updated the title of this thread so that the Oil and vehicle info were included.

 

[ihookem1]

Ya know dnewton those are good questions that seem to vary a lot. Some say the oil is junk when the TAN is twice what the TBN is. I don't know so I just watch the UOA. When they start to flag anything I change the oil. Like last time when I had 39k on the oil the oxidation was flagged as a caution. It was not severe, they said I can run it another 7k and resample. Though for a minute and said winter is coming so change it. Heck, I thought the oil has 39k on it. So I dumped it. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[dnewton3]

As for condemnation levels, the wear metal counts and such are much higher that many would think.

Here is a link to a study where many respected diesel engine makers and lube analysis entities state their condemnation levels. I think it's fair to say one could "average" the values for some reasonable limits for most any diesel engine.
http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/Publications/UsedOil/2008020.pdf
Check out page 11 of that report. The whole report is interesting, but the condemnation levels are on page 11. The topic starts on page 9. It specifically addresses the reluctance of the companies to set hard-and-fast limits because of obvious warranty issues, but the underlying info is certainly there. It also acknowledges the need to understand that the relationships are affected when each individual engine and lube are in a state of change. Generally, wear rates are more telling than total wear. But eventually, even when a nice low wear rate is experienced, the total contaminants indicate a condemnation limit has been reached. Wear metals that escalate uniformly are desired, etc. Soot is generally higher than most people would expect to see, as an acceptable limit.

Certainly goes to show that most people change their oil WAY too often.

Given some reasonable "averages" we could draw from the report, your current load of Amsoil is far, far from it's limits.

Like I said; RUN IT!

 

[ihookem1]

Still going strong. I dumped my Amsoil @ 25k and went with Shell Rotella T3 10W30. I could not get time to my Amsoil dealer so went with what was on the shelf at the store. Besides An oil test is the same cost as 10 Qts of Shell Rotella. It burns almost no oil to this day. It has 190k on it now and 10k more than my last post. ( I bought a Saturn (42mpg all summer) so I don't run the truck till I have to) . I may go back to Amsoil though, we will see how long oil moitor lets the Rotella go between changes. Then I will see if Amsoil is worth it since the engine starts fine @ 0 degrees. Later, ihookem.

 

[dnewton3]

The OLM has no idea what oil is in the crankcase; it will predicate its limits based upon the operating criteria.

You will probably have great success with the Rotella. I use it and have had fantastic results, even under some of the most extreme towing.

I am curious; did you actually get "T3" or "TP" (tripple protection)? I didn't think T3 was commonly found on the shelf, where the upgraded TP is becomming more commonly found with each passing month.

 

[m37charlie]

Detroit Diesel's condemnation limits for 4 stroke engines using approved oils are soot 4.5%, Fe 200, Al 30, TBN 1/3 of original or
Charlie

 

[skyship]

Does not look good for 3K miles, although there is not set of universal averages quoted the Pb and Cu too far too high.
The Mg comment from the lab indicates the author does not know much about UOA results, as some of the better old oils had about 100ppm max, but some of the latest ones use Magnesium sulfate as an alternative to some of the Calcium sulfate.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Detroit Diesel's condemnation limits for 4 stroke engines using approved oils are soot 4.5%, Fe 200, Al 30, TBN 1/3 of original or
Charlie


The TBN and Al figure look correct, but 2% fuel contamination is better for car diesels (It should show 0 if you don't get stuck at idle too much). The 200 Fe is a bit over the top and for a petrol or diesel car I would have thought 100 to be more realistic even for a known Fe shedder. The coolant figure should be zero.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
You're on the right track. EXTEND THAT OCI!
Very impressive TBN after 13.5k miles. Everything else looks to be able to sustain the longer runs.
What are the condemnation levels you've set for soot, TBN, wear metals, etc?
PS - I updated the title of this thread so that the Oil and vehicle info were included.


The TBN figure might be good, BUT with Cr at a real high figure (Hard to figure how serious without universal averages), I would think about an oil with a more robust anti wear additives content rather than very high detergents, although don't switch to Redline or you might swap one problem for another. It would be amusing to see the difference in TBN and wear metal though.

 

[JAG]

I agree with skyship that chromium is too high at 21 PPM and that the amount of potassium could indicate a slight coolant leak into the oil. It may be worth doing an early sample next time to see how these values progress.

 

[m37charlie]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Detroit Diesel's condemnation limits for 4 stroke engines using approved oils are soot 4.5%, Fe 200, Al 30, TBN 1/3 of original or
Charlie


The TBN and Al figure look correct, but 2% fuel contamination is better for car diesels (It should show 0 if you don't get stuck at idle too much). The 200 Fe is a bit over the top and for a petrol or diesel car I would have thought 100 to be more realistic even for a known Fe shedder. The coolant figure should be zero.


Duramax - "car diesel"? I don't think so. it is a medium truck engine.
The chromium would concern me however, although DD's limit on Cr is 30. It concerns me because it indicates ring wear seems to be accelerated.

Charlie

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Detroit Diesel's condemnation limits for 4 stroke engines using approved oils are soot 4.5%, Fe 200, Al 30, TBN 1/3 of original or
Charlie


The TBN and Al figure look correct, but 2% fuel contamination is better for car diesels (It should show 0 if you don't get stuck at idle too much). The 200 Fe is a bit over the top and for a petrol or diesel car I would have thought 100 to be more realistic even for a known Fe shedder. The coolant figure should be zero.


Duramax - "car diesel"? I don't think so. it is a medium truck engine.
The chromium would concern me however, although DD's limit on Cr is 30. It concerns me because it indicates ring wear seems to be accelerated.

Charlie


Wow! So the DD limit for Cr is 30 ppm, not seen such a high limit before. What do they list for the other limits or universal averages, as the Cummins Fe limit of 200 seems high for general use.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Detroit Diesel's condemnation limits for 4 stroke engines using approved oils are soot 4.5%, Fe 200, Al 30, TBN 1/3 of original or
Charlie

The TBN and Al figure look correct, but 2% fuel contamination is better for car diesels (It should show 0 if you don't get stuck at idle too much). The 200 Fe is a bit over the top and for a petrol or diesel car I would have thought 100 to be more realistic even for a known Fe shedder. The coolant figure should be zero.


Duramax - "car diesel"? I don't think so. it is a medium truck engine.
The chromium would concern me however, although DD's limit on Cr is 30. It concerns me because it indicates ring wear seems to be accelerated.

Charlie

This Duramax, a fantastic enigne to be sure, is not a medium truck enigne.

 

[ihookem1]

Well, after running my 05 Duramax for 10k on the Shell Rotella, and then another 10k on another batch of Shell Rotella ( yellow bottle, not synthetic) I went with the oil change indicator on the truck. Hard to believe YA can go 10k on 10qts. of oil. I went back to Amsoil series 3000 5w30 hdd. The engine has 209k on it and runs perfect. I noticed the Shell 10w30 didn't need as much makup oil as the Amsoil. Maybe cause Shell was thicker. ??

 

[dnewton3]

Not sure what you mean by "yellow bottle" Rotella, but I presume you're referring to the Triple Protection in 10w-30? The bottle is white, at least any that I've ever seen. That is what I run, and have had outstanding service from it in my Dmax. Did you take a UOA on either load?

Run the Amsoil out for a long OCI to get the value out of the fluid. Doesn't really matter if you paid $10 or 10 cents per quart; to under-utilize fluids is a waste. Confirm service life with a UOA along the way.