Marathon Gas, fuel quality

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How is it not? I don't see any difference in the way my cars run no matter what the fuel. It's just marketing.

Around me the only company that makes it's own fuel is Marathon/Speedway. If Top Tier gas was so good then there would be people having all sorts of problems when not using it.

BP, Shell, Phillips, Casey's, all get their gas from the same pipeline terminals here.
 
Different cars behave differently. I've had mixed results with top tier and Techron usage.

But there is a reason major manufacturers support top tier and PEA treatments. Mercedes officially approve Techron where fuel without enough additives is not available.

And the below is the performance requirements of top tier fuel.

From http://www.toptiergas.com/faqs.html

Code:
Performance Testing Chart



TEST REQUIREMENT



Ford 2.3L Intake Valve Deposits

Base fuel 500mg min

Base fuel + additive (X) at XX PTB 50mg max



Ford 2.3L Combustion Chamber Deposits

Base fuel

Base fuel + additive (X) at XX PTB


Fuel Injector Fouling

Base fuel 5 or more

Base fuel + additive (X) at XX PTB 0 or 1



GM Intake Valve Sticking

Base fuel + additive (X) at XX PTB 0 max @ 2x TOP TIER treat rate
 
Well what do you expect they are the marketeers.

Maybe you can come up with the a normal spec for gasoline?
 
The EPA minimum is not enough. But yes your Marathon fuel might have enough detergents to not cause problem. Before Costco officially became Top Tier, their clean power met top tier requirements. BP was always recommended by Ford before it officially became top tier.

So while you may get more than the EPA minimum with other brands, the Top Tier designation gives you assurance that the performance is what the auto manufacturers want. Other gas may meet the performance levels but you don't know for sure. Additionally deposit formation and PEA dosing levels in fuel and concentrates as well as concentrate use intervals have been established through research.

Lastly, additives are mixed in when the fuel is put into the tankers, except for Costco who have similar technology at their gas stations and mix it there.

The good news now for many of us is that Costco have the best prices and they have top tier gas.
 
What do you mean the EPA minimum is not good enough? Just talk of some facts? Actually I want the minimum amount of additives. Give me more gas.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
What do you mean the EPA minimum is not good enough? Just talk of some facts? Actually I want the minimum amount of additives. Give me more gas.


The majority of most detergent additives is solvent. You could have a detergent additive that's blended to meet the EPA minimum that waters down the actual detergent more than a more highly concentrated additive in less solvent.

As for what they're trying to achieve:

Quote:
http://pr.sae.org/saenews/gasadditives.htm

Although EPA's minimum detergency requirements are beneficial, they do not satisfy the needs of all vehicles. Many oil companies have chosen to provide more than the minimum required amount of additive. These include some small, independent marketers as well as some major marketers, and these marketers often advertise their fuel's improved detergency. Unfortunately, many consumers may not be aware of which fuels have better detergency. Even with that information, however, most consumers are not able to evaluate the claims made by marketers.
********
It is important to note that the absence of a gasoline marketer from the list of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline participants does not necessarily mean that the marketer is using only the minimum EPA-required amount of detergent additive. For one reason or another, that marketer may simply have decided not to participate.


The reason why the automakers care is that they get a lot of people bringing in vehicles for warranty issues because they're sluggish, there's poor fuel economy, and most importantly because of emissions issues. They're the ones driving it, and they're not making any money from setting up the Top Tier organization.
 
All marketing. The difference between Top Tier and regular gas may be so small it's nearly unmeasurable. Kind of like a synthetic blend oil.

My point is that if I were to believe the hype, then I would be the one with fuel system problems.
 
It all depends what you mean by regular gas.

But there is a significant difference between top tier gas and epa minimum gas.

If you haven't had issues using non top tier gas that's great and I entirely believe you. You may have an engine or driving style that minimizes the issue and / or you may be using non top tier gas with sufficient additives.

I know that I had a huge problem after tens of thousands of miles of consistently using non top tier gas from a local convenient station. You can read many reviews of fuel system cleaners used on older vehicles where users report excellent mpg and performance improvements.

And, I've put Techron or Regane concentrate into vehicles and had far lesser results. Most noticeable was getting hardly any benefit on a 10 year old vehicle where the owner had consistently gone to a top tier gas station.

Lastly you can read some actual research and testing on the subject. It's not hard to find.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
All marketing. The difference between Top Tier and regular gas may be so small it's nearly unmeasurable. Kind of like a synthetic blend oil.

My point is that if I were to believe the hype, then I would be the one with fuel system problems.


The automakers certainly care. They're the ones committing research money to measuring the results.

http://papers.sae.org/2014-01-1383/
 
I guess here in Illinois we are just out of luck as far as getting the Top Tier treatment. It's a shame that we all will have engines die due to the terrible lack of quality gas.
 
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Here you go, it's a few years old but more than likely still valid.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/team-brand-gas-compares-035000074.html

I use BP or Shell, easy to find in Michigan.

Seems reasonable up to a point. The ones with the lower amount of residues seem to be the ones assumed to have minimum or near minimum detergent additive levels.

However, I would point out that simply weighing the residues may not be a completely effective way of determining detergent effectiveness. Not all the residues are going to be detergent. Some could be varnish. Not all detergents are the same composition or the same effectiveness for a given weight. Different PEA formulations could provide an EPA minimum effectiveness with different amounts. And PEA isn't the only detergent on the market that's effective. I heard there's something called "Mannich base detergents" that are promising. Apparently Afton Chemical has such a product on the market, although there may be a blend of PEA and these Mannich base detergents.
 
One of the stations, Pilot I think it was, had the lowest amount of detergent and told the reporters that they put in the EPA minimum and no more than that.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I guess here in Illinois we are just out of luck as far as getting the Top Tier treatment. It's a shame that we all will have engines die due to the terrible lack of quality gas.


SHOZ, I don't understand... Illinois has Shell, BP, Mobil, Chevron, Costco etc. All of which are Top Tier. They don't say it anywhere on the pump or in the store, but they are Top Tier stations. My reason for posting this thread is because with the current proliferation of Marathon stations in my area, I may use it every once in a while. But, as other poster's have shared, there is a difference that is important to many makes and models and possibly beneficial to all, if ever so slightly. We also know that it isnt recommended by every mfr as well. Where we disagree is the opinion that TT is a marketing term, but that's ok too.
 
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Originally Posted By: wemay


SHOZ, I don't understand...


Sarcasm, wemay.

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Top Tier gas is a marketing scam
 
Originally Posted By: babbittd
Originally Posted By: wemay


SHOZ, I don't understand...


Sarcasm, wemay.


coffee2.gif
We all have our views I guess...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I guess here in Illinois we are just out of luck as far as getting the Top Tier treatment. It's a shame that we all will have engines die due to the terrible lack of quality gas.


SHOZ, I don't understand... Illinois has Shell, BP, Mobil, Chevron, Costco etc. All of which are Top Tier. They don't say it anywhere on the pump or in the store, but they are Top Tier stations. My reason for posting this thread is because with the current proliferation of Marathon stations in my area, I may use it every once in a while. But, as other poster's have shared, there is a difference that is important to many makes and models and possibly beneficial to all, if ever so slightly. We also know that it isnt recommended by every mfr as well. Where we disagree is the opinion that TT is a marketing term, but that's ok too.


Are you saying a Top Tier qualified company is selling Top Tier gasoline nation wide? If so is there anyway to know for sure other than them being signed up as TT retailer?

Gasoline retailers have advertising this or that for many years. Mobil got sued for saying their premium had more detergents that any other gas when in fact it didn't 20 years ago. BP use to have the pure one advertising ling and had to give it up due to ethanol, now it's "invigorate". Shell today says their V power premium has more detergents than others.

Why can't I search for "Top Tier gas stations in Illinois" and come up with a list? All I get is the circular documentation that goes back to the Top Tier web site.

Road Ranger is the only retailer I could find that says all it's stations carry Top Tier gas.
 
Check the Top Tier website. All branded stations must be Top Tier, or none. There's no in between. Additionally, the Top Tier site lists all the brands in the United States, Puerto Rico, and Canada that are so certified.
 
I have checked the Top Tier web site many times. No where does it say that all the gas a listed a retailer sells nationwide meets the Top Tier requirements. That's what I mean by the circular documentation.

If a station meets the TT requirements and the retailer is paying to be a part of the TT program why do not they list it as such?

If I search for specific stations I don't get anything but the ambiguous statement that the parent company has qualified. But how many different blends of fuel are there around the country at any one time?

I have no doubt the stations around me meet the spec. But I don't think they do anything special. And that includes all of them whether they are TT rated on the TT web site of not.
 
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