High boost E85 oil recommendation

[phil1305]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: phil240
not general consensus drift tards.


Good luck with the car.


I wasn't refering to you if you took it that way, Ive seen a lot of people recommend RT6 and i used it in other cars but I can't imagine it being the best for my application.

My only thing is if i was 500 or less it'd be perfect but at 600+ i want to be absolutely sure and not doing running and testing on a 15k engine.

 

[phil1305]

Well after talking to a few real racing buddies of mine a few use OTS synthetics such as RP racing and redline. the ones that i knew, knew a little more in terminology of racing of longevity and performance They suggested I try Motul. I asked about 300v or 8100 but they said personal preference in my case and 5w-40 or 15w-50 are the weights im looking at.

I am still interested in seeing more results on millers oil but there just doesn't seem to be that many people that are running it (on here anyway).

Any more input from some more knowledgeable gurus would be appreciated.

 

[Paddy1337]

Originally Posted By: phil240
Yes it is a single turbo and if you read through my post this is not my daily at all.


gotta say, you are coming off a little bit like a **** in some of your posts to people who are just trying to help you. BUT, this is the internet, and things aren't always how they seem.

Anyway. My #1 recommendation for picking the oil weight is talk to your engine builder. Hands down he, and no one else, will have that answer as to what is best. He knows the bearing clearances he's speccing, and he also has likely built many engines in the past and seen how they do with certain weights vs bearing clearances. The second consideration might be to look to your turbo manufacturer for their recommendation, some of them have some strong opinions on oil.

I have a pretty loose motor, similar in concept to your SR20. It's a stroked 4G63 in my Evo (technically it's a 4G64 but who cares right?). Now, I've personally never had a sleeved motor, so MAYBE that has an effect I don't know about, but I run AMSoil ZRod 20W-50. Once I ran Brad Penn 20w-50 due to availability, and it didn't break, lol. My oil pressure is on the high side though, so I've been considering ways to reduce that slightly (mechanically).

The motor is currently 3 years old, with 2 seasons of racing. The racing is LOTS and lots of drag racing, with some autox mixed in, and street driving mixed in. Made 600whp/540tq on a mustang dyno, and maxes at 41psi on kill mode. It's also been on E85 for all of 2013 (was C-16 for 2012).

I'm actually about to do my first oil analysis very soon, because I'm thinking it's time to refresh the motor. I would just rebuild it without thought, but for 2014 I've also bought and am building a rally car, and that is taking my spare funds. So I'll be looking to oil analysis to help me decide what all I should do to the motor for next year.

Last but not least, if you're still reading, I do not actually run the oil for very long on average. for all of 2012 religiously and less so in 2013, we would change all my fluids after every track day. but at 7-8qts of ZRod, plus trans and diffs, that was getting stupid expensive. I'm going to also look to oil analysis to help me decide my plans for oil in the future. Either extending my change intervals (not my top pick), or using a less expensive oil at the same way too often change intervals (I'm thinking Brad Penn). My shop loves AMSoil. We've had amazing results with it over the years. But, I think that likely most of the benefits AMSoil has over some other oils I could be using, are all benefits that don't matter to me, like extended drain intervals.

**Hope some of this is helpful**
-Tim

 

[phil1305]

Originally Posted By: Paddy1337
Originally Posted By: phil240
Yes it is a single turbo and if you read through my post this is not my daily at all.


gotta say, you are coming off a little bit like a **** in some of your posts to people who are just trying to help you. BUT, this is the internet, and things aren't always how they seem.

Anyway. My #1 recommendation for picking the oil weight is talk to your engine builder. Hands down he, and no one else, will have that answer as to what is best. He knows the bearing clearances he's speccing, and he also has likely built many engines in the past and seen how they do with certain weights vs bearing clearances. The second consideration might be to look to your turbo manufacturer for their recommendation, some of them have some strong opinions on oil.

I have a pretty loose motor, similar in concept to your SR20. It's a stroked 4G63 in my Evo (technically it's a 4G64 but who cares right?). Now, I've personally never had a sleeved motor, so MAYBE that has an effect I don't know about, but I run AMSoil ZRod 20W-50. Once I ran Brad Penn 20w-50 due to availability, and it didn't break, lol. My oil pressure is on the high side though, so I've been considering ways to reduce that slightly (mechanically).

The motor is currently 3 years old, with 2 seasons of racing. The racing is LOTS and lots of drag racing, with some autox mixed in, and street driving mixed in. Made 600whp/540tq on a mustang dyno, and maxes at 41psi on kill mode. It's also been on E85 for all of 2013 (was C-16 for 2012).

I'm actually about to do my first oil analysis very soon, because I'm thinking it's time to refresh the motor. I would just rebuild it without thought, but for 2014 I've also bought and am building a rally car, and that is taking my spare funds. So I'll be looking to oil analysis to help me decide what all I should do to the motor for next year.

Last but not least, if you're still reading, I do not actually run the oil for very long on average. for all of 2012 religiously and less so in 2013, we would change all my fluids after every track day. but at 7-8qts of ZRod, plus trans and diffs, that was getting stupid expensive. I'm going to also look to oil analysis to help me decide my plans for oil in the future. Either extending my change intervals (not my top pick), or using a less expensive oil at the same way too often change intervals (I'm thinking Brad Penn). My shop loves AMSoil. We've had amazing results with it over the years. But, I think that likely most of the benefits AMSoil has over some other oils I could be using, are all benefits that don't matter to me, like extended drain intervals.

**Hope some of this is helpful**
-Tim


Thanks for the input on the matter, I don't mean to come off as a **** but 1. people don't actually read what you post before offering up advice or criticism and 2. sometimes people don't have a problem spending money on a better product it doesn't always have to be the best bang for the buck.

Now that being said yes this is a looser clearance motor it's still at the builder and i'm awaiting return so i don't have it back yet. It wasn't a dire matter to bug them about oil specs yet as I'll get all the info when it's done. My skepticism is that it's a looser clearance within factory spec engine so that will probably give me a few options to choose from.

I do know lots of people run 20w-50 in their evo's, I personally run 5/10w-40 in my wife's MR but it's pretty mild and all but stock. I didn't really mean to ignore help about what oil to use in my car but I like that if advice is offered there be more info backed then general consensous is, after all I do read up on sr20 stuff just haven't much into the fully built semi street driven side as most people don't have or want to spend that kind of money.

I have friends that rave about amsoil products ones actually a dealer, I personally never used it so i have no info or experience with it. I was actually a Royal Purple fan when others used to bad mouth it with no proof of there claims and now i am looking for one of the top companies with a 5/10w-40 and 10/15/20w-50 weights so i can run in plenty of different setups with the use of one brand.

As with your track habits of changing fluids after every event i sorta wanted to not have to do that if I could, I am planning on short oci around 2-3k and 60-70% will be hard street driving so i wanted something i can leave in a little longer.

I am looking forward to using UOA to help in oil choice and longevity in my situation.

Used a lot of I's in here please ignore my english, drove myself nuts rereading it.

 

[Electrajoe]

Has any one personally had an engine failure using ANY oil brand within the manufactures grade that was changed once a year or 5,000 miles or fewer?

 

[Paddy1337]

are you talking on an OEM motor with standard tuning and no racing?

 

[Electrajoe]

Yes, stock on street, not on track bumping rev limiter.


are you talking on an OEM motor with standard tuning and no racing?

 

[phil1305]

Originally Posted By: Electrajoe
Yes, stock on street, not on track bumping rev limiter.


are you talking on an OEM motor with standard tuning and no racing?


Are you asking the question or a statement more or less?

Under normal driving using the manufacturer specs i'd say it would be very uncommon unless other factors considering.

I would also go to say with that if your not making a substantial amount of horsepower and torque you would also be ok, in my case i am making high horsepower and boost motor running e85.

 

[A_Harman]

I'd stay away from the really wide viscosity spread oils: 10w60, 5w50, 0w50, etc. I'm thinking Redline 15w50 because of its relatively easy availability and reasonable cost. Motul 300V would be an equivalent to Redline, but it's more expensive. Since this is not a daily driver for you, I'm assuming you won't drive it in cold weather, so low W-ratings aren't needed. Also you have mentioned that the engine is being built with bearing clearances to the loose side of the factory tolerances. This would push you to use thicker oils. My preference would be to build it to the tight side of factory clearances, but if your engine builder has a lot of success with 30+ psi boosted engines assembled with loose clearances, so be it.

So when you get the engine put in your car, I recommend that you creep up on the boost and rpm's from below. Don't just go out there, crank up the boost to 35 psi, and start making passes at 9000 rpm. Start at 18 psi, and make half passes at gradually increasing shift points, starting at maybe 6000 rpm. Put a datalogger in your car and monitor operating temperatures and pressures, lambda numbers, and knock sensor activity. Look at the data between runs, and if there are readings that you don't understand, don't step it up anymore until you have the problems resolved.

Once you have worked the engine up to maximum rpm and have stable oil pressure, safe lambda numbers, and no knock activity, then start pushing up the boost.

 

[phil1305]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'd stay away from the really wide viscosity spread oils: 10w60, 5w50, 0w50, etc. I'm thinking Redline 15w50 because of its relatively easy availability and reasonable cost. Motul 300V would be an equivalent to Redline, but it's more expensive. Since this is not a daily driver for you, I'm assuming you won't drive it in cold weather, so low W-ratings aren't needed. Also you have mentioned that the engine is being built with bearing clearances to the loose side of the factory tolerances. This would push you to use thicker oils. My preference would be to build it to the tight side of factory clearances, but if your engine builder has a lot of success with 30+ psi boosted engines assembled with loose clearances, so be it.

So when you get the engine put in your car, I recommend that you creep up on the boost and rpm's from below. Don't just go out there, crank up the boost to 35 psi, and start making passes at 9000 rpm. Start at 18 psi, and make half passes at gradually increasing shift points, starting at maybe 6000 rpm. Put a datalogger in your car and monitor operating temperatures and pressures, lambda numbers, and knock sensor activity. Look at the data between runs, and if there are readings that you don't understand, don't step it up anymore until you have the problems resolved.

Once you have worked the engine up to maximum rpm and have stable oil pressure, safe lambda numbers, and no knock activity, then start pushing up the boost.


I had heard from few others that even guys running stock bottom end motors were running 15w-50. Motul is more expensive but I'm working on trying to become a dealer so personal price still shouldn't be too bad.

Once the engine is in it will be broken in on a really conservative tune around 15psi after the first 500 miles, then once i hit 800-1k then it will actually be tuned for higher boost. Also i had an older haltech that was in the car with a patch loom, this time around its getting a full wiring harness and looking at the newest haltech coming out.

Another thing the car may be driven in colder weather on nice days but if I make that commitment I'll have plenty of time to allow the oil temps to come up.

 

[Paddy1337]

how'd the engine come together? Decide on the oil?

I rebuilt my engine, had been racing it for 2.5 seasons. Took it apart after running a personal best, actually. Used AMSoil ZRod 20w-50 for those 2.5 years. Only abnormality on teardown was a side-loaded piston, and bearings that looked like they could use replacement (not beat up, but abused long enough).

We put it back together with some changes. Clearances slightly tighter, about 200hp more power, and switched to AMSoil Dominator 15w-50. Biggest change, I'm on c-16 vice E85 because fuel system cannot handle E85 with the increased power. So far so good. The engine has survived 1 significant over-rev, a failed turbo bearing (brass cartridge), and after some significant time idling for the filter to do it's work and 2 oil changes, the oil is day 1 clean and still kicking.

Be nice if there were proven additives to give the dominator some of the real nice Z-Rod properties. like crazy zinc...

~800whp, ~46psi, 4-cyl engine

 

[Nathan]

Originally Posted By: phil240
My first post as i have been researching the crxp out of oils for my cars. I will never need the usage out of my oils in my cars except my street/ track car.

a little info on the car and where I was leaning towards for my decision.

Nissan sr20det fully built spec:
sleeved 2.2l
solid lifter conversion head capable to 10k+ rpm (85-9k limit i'm thinking)
high boost application 35-40+psi
E85 fuel

Now the engine is fully built and even though its a sunny day street car i will thrash the ever living pxss out of it, with some non competitive drag races and possible HPDE it may see.

I was leaning towards shell helix ultra/ PU euro as my oil choice since ill probably be changing it every 2-3k. Doing a little more research I am now leaning towards shell helix ultra racing 10w-60/ PU racing 10w-60.

Just a little input and opinion would be nice for my setup and what you guys think I might use for oil for this specific car.


I used Redline 5w-40 in my turbo KA24DE Nissan and when I pulled the motor apart (due to worn cylinder walls and cracked Wiseco pistons from 40k mi at 450whp) the bearings and crank looked mint.

I would also consider their 15w-40 for your application if you only run it in the warmer months.