Hey Tig love your emoticon, is that your IQ the cute little bugger is flashing?
Tony Stewart - Grand Jury... no charges.
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Originally Posted By: larry007
The raw video I watched showed Stewart not drop to the bottom of the track, and the audio indicates him tweaking his throttle to get his car sideways just before the accident...just saying...Mr Hothead knows what he was thinking...just a shame for all involved.
Larry, your ignorance of how to drive a sprint car is not a reason to convict anyone. Please learn more about how these cars turn (hint: it requires throttle) and then get back to us.
So far Tigs smarts are showing out a bit higher than yours...
The raw video I watched showed Stewart not drop to the bottom of the track, and the audio indicates him tweaking his throttle to get his car sideways just before the accident...just saying...Mr Hothead knows what he was thinking...just a shame for all involved.
Larry, your ignorance of how to drive a sprint car is not a reason to convict anyone. Please learn more about how these cars turn (hint: it requires throttle) and then get back to us.
So far Tigs smarts are showing out a bit higher than yours...
Thanks for your remarks Steve, obviously you didn't see and listen to the complete video. Not trying to convict anyone. The young man should have stayed in his car, Stewart should have gotten in single file with the rest of the field. Two wrongs don't make a right that's for sure. My original post was about the track incident, not getting into others posts and name calling...so here's a big [removed] for your trouble.
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I still think Stewart got a bit too close to Ward purposely, but didn't intend to hit him. A pothead + hothead = no good outcome.
+1 ... exactly. Stewart was playing games in this incident (swerving close - hothead actions) and it bit him.
I still think Stewart got a bit too close to Ward purposely, but didn't intend to hit him. A pothead + hothead = no good outcome.
+1 ... exactly. Stewart was playing games in this incident (swerving close - hothead actions) and it bit him.
Originally Posted By: larry007
Thanks for your remarks Steve, obviously you didn't see and listen to the complete video. Not trying to convict anyone. The young man should have stayed in his car, Stewart should have gotten in single file with the rest of the field. Two wrongs don't make a right that's for sure. My original post was about the track incident, not getting into others posts and name calling...so here's a big FU for your trouble.
Enjoy your trip...
Thanks for your remarks Steve, obviously you didn't see and listen to the complete video. Not trying to convict anyone. The young man should have stayed in his car, Stewart should have gotten in single file with the rest of the field. Two wrongs don't make a right that's for sure. My original post was about the track incident, not getting into others posts and name calling...so here's a big FU for your trouble.
Enjoy your trip...
Originally Posted By: larry007
The raw video I watched showed Stewart not drop to the bottom of the track, and the audio indicates him tweaking his throttle to get his car sideways just before the accident...just saying...Mr Hothead knows what he was thinking...just a shame for all involved.
That could be a plausible argument however when you hit the gas, they kick out and if Stewart stayed on the gas instead of blipping it, he would have been totally sideways and would have looked worse.
The other half of that is he could have been trying to get away from him but could only blip the gas, hoping to get away from him since his rolling speed was on course with him contacting the car...better to try to get away before he could get at him.
Then a part of that is he could have just turned left.
Fact is, Ward would be alive if he stayed in the car.
The raw video I watched showed Stewart not drop to the bottom of the track, and the audio indicates him tweaking his throttle to get his car sideways just before the accident...just saying...Mr Hothead knows what he was thinking...just a shame for all involved.
That could be a plausible argument however when you hit the gas, they kick out and if Stewart stayed on the gas instead of blipping it, he would have been totally sideways and would have looked worse.
The other half of that is he could have been trying to get away from him but could only blip the gas, hoping to get away from him since his rolling speed was on course with him contacting the car...better to try to get away before he could get at him.
Then a part of that is he could have just turned left.
Fact is, Ward would be alive if he stayed in the car.
Stewart needs to change his actions on the track ... unfortunately, he learned the lesson the hard way. This was an incident where two wrongs added up to a disaster. Race rules need to be made where it's against rules to antagonize each other on the track - with heavy fines and/or banning from racing as the penalty.
Originally Posted By: i6pwr
Originally Posted By: larry007
The raw video I watched showed Stewart not drop to the bottom of the track, and the audio indicates him tweaking his throttle to get his car sideways just before the accident...just saying...Mr Hothead knows what he was thinking...just a shame for all involved.
That could be a plausible argument however when you hit the gas, they kick out and if Stewart stayed on the gas instead of blipping it, he would have been totally sideways and would have looked worse.
The other half of that is he could have been trying to get away from him but could only blip the gas, hoping to get away from him since his rolling speed was on course with him contacting the car...better to try to get away before he could get at him.
Then a part of that is he could have just turned left.
Fact is, Ward would be alive if he stayed in the car.
EXACTLY!
Stay in the car. Simple.
Now let's get back to this being stoned stuff.
Now let's consider the above post where a toxicology report claims ward was intoxicated by the levels if thc in his body.
From experience I can say without a doubt that a chronic user will require large amounts of thc to feel anything.
So it could be that ward was a habitual user,and he really felt nothing based on his levels,OR he might have been completely baked.
Very hard to say.
It's like booze. Some people can drink a fifth and not even wobble,others have a couple of ounces from that same fifth and they are one eye wonders,so to say that ward was intoxicated isn't really fair,unless you know his common daily intake and his tolerance.
And all of it is IRRELEVANT HAD WARD STAYED IN THE CAR.
SIMPLE.
Ward is dead because he made a choice. Man vs machine. Machine won. Darwin strikes again.
Originally Posted By: larry007
The raw video I watched showed Stewart not drop to the bottom of the track, and the audio indicates him tweaking his throttle to get his car sideways just before the accident...just saying...Mr Hothead knows what he was thinking...just a shame for all involved.
That could be a plausible argument however when you hit the gas, they kick out and if Stewart stayed on the gas instead of blipping it, he would have been totally sideways and would have looked worse.
The other half of that is he could have been trying to get away from him but could only blip the gas, hoping to get away from him since his rolling speed was on course with him contacting the car...better to try to get away before he could get at him.
Then a part of that is he could have just turned left.
Fact is, Ward would be alive if he stayed in the car.
EXACTLY!
Stay in the car. Simple.
Now let's get back to this being stoned stuff.
Now let's consider the above post where a toxicology report claims ward was intoxicated by the levels if thc in his body.
From experience I can say without a doubt that a chronic user will require large amounts of thc to feel anything.
So it could be that ward was a habitual user,and he really felt nothing based on his levels,OR he might have been completely baked.
Very hard to say.
It's like booze. Some people can drink a fifth and not even wobble,others have a couple of ounces from that same fifth and they are one eye wonders,so to say that ward was intoxicated isn't really fair,unless you know his common daily intake and his tolerance.
And all of it is IRRELEVANT HAD WARD STAYED IN THE CAR.
SIMPLE.
Ward is dead because he made a choice. Man vs machine. Machine won. Darwin strikes again.
So funny how people get all wound up about stuff over the internet.
I B T L.
Both of those guys made a mistake that added up in the wrong direction. Different actions from either one would have resulted in both still being alive. There needs to be race rules to keep drivers from making stupid actions.
It's the whole system. As I pointed out earlier, you'd never get away with that kind of behaviour in Formula 1. You'd never get close to your Super License or a seat if you exhibited that type of behaviour on your way up. Throwing helmets and pitlane confrontations are simply ridiculous, let alone what transpired in this case.
Something else I forgot to mention, these drivers are some of the best in the world. Sure F1 and rally drivers are another elite club, but high speed racing like dirt oval still requires amazing skill, especially at the speeds involved.
All of these drivers, especially Stewart, operate these cars with surgical accuracy. It's not in the same league as flying helicopters but it's the same in regards to muscle memory, human gyro factor, etc. When these cars move around, the drivers know exactly how they need to react, instinctively, and they are an extension of the vehicle...kinda like driving a rear-wheel drive vehicle in the snow....you know how much countersteer to keep it going down the road, but this is on a MUCH GRANDER SCALE.
What irritates me the most, and the fact Ward reportedly had some gonja in his blood really isn't where I'm going, is Stewart knew Ward was hit, this information was relayed to him and the track was under a yellow. Once Stewart came around, he could CLEARLY see Ward's car....why on earth did he not take the low track? He didn't, IMO, do what he could to prevent the contact with Ward. He's an amazing driver and he could have easily went as low as he could, getting far from the wreck.
I wasn't there, I wasn't in the car, but can we agree Stewart should have been far away from the wreck? Or am I totally mis thinking this?
All of these drivers, especially Stewart, operate these cars with surgical accuracy. It's not in the same league as flying helicopters but it's the same in regards to muscle memory, human gyro factor, etc. When these cars move around, the drivers know exactly how they need to react, instinctively, and they are an extension of the vehicle...kinda like driving a rear-wheel drive vehicle in the snow....you know how much countersteer to keep it going down the road, but this is on a MUCH GRANDER SCALE.
What irritates me the most, and the fact Ward reportedly had some gonja in his blood really isn't where I'm going, is Stewart knew Ward was hit, this information was relayed to him and the track was under a yellow. Once Stewart came around, he could CLEARLY see Ward's car....why on earth did he not take the low track? He didn't, IMO, do what he could to prevent the contact with Ward. He's an amazing driver and he could have easily went as low as he could, getting far from the wreck.
I wasn't there, I wasn't in the car, but can we agree Stewart should have been far away from the wreck? Or am I totally mis thinking this?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Both of those guys made a mistake that added up in the wrong direction. Different actions from either one would have resulted in both still being alive. There needs to be race rules to keep drivers from making stupid actions.
Scott, did you read the link I posted earlier in this thread? You're a smart guy, experts looked very closely at all of the evidence. They found Stewart did nothing wrong.
Here, I'll post it again: ABC News Link
Quote:
Tantillo disclosed that Ward was under the influence of marijuana the night he died and said two different videos were enhanced, frames were isolated and viewed at at least three different speeds and finally overlaid with grids and data. Both showed Stewart had done nothing wrong.
"The videos did not demonstrate any aberrational driving by Tony Stewart until the point of impact with Kevin Ward, at which point his vehicle veered to the right up the track as a result of the collision. Prior to that, his course was pretty straight," said Tantillo. He added that toxicology evidence from Ward's autopsy "indicates that at the time of operation he was under the influence of marijuana. The levels determined were enough to impair judgment."
Both of those guys made a mistake that added up in the wrong direction. Different actions from either one would have resulted in both still being alive. There needs to be race rules to keep drivers from making stupid actions.
Scott, did you read the link I posted earlier in this thread? You're a smart guy, experts looked very closely at all of the evidence. They found Stewart did nothing wrong.
Here, I'll post it again: ABC News Link
Quote:
Tantillo disclosed that Ward was under the influence of marijuana the night he died and said two different videos were enhanced, frames were isolated and viewed at at least three different speeds and finally overlaid with grids and data. Both showed Stewart had done nothing wrong.
"The videos did not demonstrate any aberrational driving by Tony Stewart until the point of impact with Kevin Ward, at which point his vehicle veered to the right up the track as a result of the collision. Prior to that, his course was pretty straight," said Tantillo. He added that toxicology evidence from Ward's autopsy "indicates that at the time of operation he was under the influence of marijuana. The levels determined were enough to impair judgment."
They generally don't have radios in sprint cars. Usually by rule since there are so many shoestring operations, but also because you cannot hear them in a sprint car.
True they were under caution, but they were just coming down from speed. Also with Tony being used to racing with more professional drivers just would not expect some kid to be running in-between cars. The car in front of Tony swerved and Tony probably either never even saw him or didn't see him until it was too late.
He probably had no idea the kid even wrecked. Considering Ward wrecked on his own, and not from Tony causing it, Tony would have had no idea why some kid was running around pointing at him. Slide jobs are normal and someone with 16 years experience, like Ward had, should have been prepared for it. If anything he was driving above his capability knowing full well who was in the 14 car.
True they were under caution, but they were just coming down from speed. Also with Tony being used to racing with more professional drivers just would not expect some kid to be running in-between cars. The car in front of Tony swerved and Tony probably either never even saw him or didn't see him until it was too late.
He probably had no idea the kid even wrecked. Considering Ward wrecked on his own, and not from Tony causing it, Tony would have had no idea why some kid was running around pointing at him. Slide jobs are normal and someone with 16 years experience, like Ward had, should have been prepared for it. If anything he was driving above his capability knowing full well who was in the 14 car.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Both of those guys made a mistake that added up in the wrong direction. Different actions from either one would have resulted in both still being alive. There needs to be race rules to keep drivers from making stupid actions.
Scott, did you read the link I posted earlier in this thread? You're a smart guy, experts looked very closely at all of the evidence. They found Stewart did nothing wrong.
Here, I'll post it again: ABC News Link
Quote:
Tantillo disclosed that Ward was under the influence of marijuana the night he died and said two different videos were enhanced, frames were isolated and viewed at at least three different speeds and finally overlaid with grids and data. Both showed Stewart had done nothing wrong.
"The videos did not demonstrate any aberrational driving by Tony Stewart until the point of impact with Kevin Ward, at which point his vehicle veered to the right up the track as a result of the collision. Prior to that, his course was pretty straight," said Tantillo. He added that toxicology evidence from Ward's autopsy "indicates that at the time of operation he was under the influence of marijuana. The levels determined were enough to impair judgment."
Well that's it then.
Ward was baked which if anything chilled him out a bit,reaction time while driving quite likely hindered which could be why he wiped out in the first place.
And Stewart has been cleared by experts,data overlays and computer generated grids say so which basically closes the door,and hopefully Ward Sr.'s mouth as far as all the finger pointing he is doing.
He's started a campaign/crusade before getting all the facts and now he's got no credibility as far as I'm concerned.
Sorry for his loss but it's time to shut up now.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Both of those guys made a mistake that added up in the wrong direction. Different actions from either one would have resulted in both still being alive. There needs to be race rules to keep drivers from making stupid actions.
Scott, did you read the link I posted earlier in this thread? You're a smart guy, experts looked very closely at all of the evidence. They found Stewart did nothing wrong.
Here, I'll post it again: ABC News Link
Quote:
Tantillo disclosed that Ward was under the influence of marijuana the night he died and said two different videos were enhanced, frames were isolated and viewed at at least three different speeds and finally overlaid with grids and data. Both showed Stewart had done nothing wrong.
"The videos did not demonstrate any aberrational driving by Tony Stewart until the point of impact with Kevin Ward, at which point his vehicle veered to the right up the track as a result of the collision. Prior to that, his course was pretty straight," said Tantillo. He added that toxicology evidence from Ward's autopsy "indicates that at the time of operation he was under the influence of marijuana. The levels determined were enough to impair judgment."
Well that's it then.
Ward was baked which if anything chilled him out a bit,reaction time while driving quite likely hindered which could be why he wiped out in the first place.
And Stewart has been cleared by experts,data overlays and computer generated grids say so which basically closes the door,and hopefully Ward Sr.'s mouth as far as all the finger pointing he is doing.
He's started a campaign/crusade before getting all the facts and now he's got no credibility as far as I'm concerned.
Sorry for his loss but it's time to shut up now.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
... experts looked very closely at all of the evidence. They found Stewart did nothing wrong.
Here, I'll post it again: ABC News Link
This is the part I focused on:
"Authorities said the first car to pass Ward had to swerve to miss hitting him. The front of Stewart's car appeared to clear Ward, but Ward was struck by the right rear tire and hurtled through the air. He died of blunt force trauma."
The video I've seen of the incident shows Stewart blipping his throttle right before the accident. I see that as Stewart using his car to intimidate Ward. If Stewart didn't really see him, I doubt there wouldn't be any throttle blipping at that point because the race was under yellow. Just my viewpoint, but I think the jury got way too biased over the "intoxication" factor. I'd like to have seen all this evidence presented in court. Until then, my viewpoint is Stewart is not as "fault free" as he was luckily found to be.
Bottom line again is there needs to be strict rules for these racers when there are crashes on the track. People may need to jump out of their cars due to possible fire, etc ... and they should head to the closest side of the track while drivers coming around the track should immediately show down and head to the opposite side of the track if possible. Of course if the officials can't get the yellow flags out fast, or there are not radios in the car then those circumstances need to be handles accordingly.
Stop all this helmet throwing, wanting to fight on the track nonsense. Give heavy fines and race bans due to such behavior.
... experts looked very closely at all of the evidence. They found Stewart did nothing wrong.
Here, I'll post it again: ABC News Link
This is the part I focused on:
"Authorities said the first car to pass Ward had to swerve to miss hitting him. The front of Stewart's car appeared to clear Ward, but Ward was struck by the right rear tire and hurtled through the air. He died of blunt force trauma."
The video I've seen of the incident shows Stewart blipping his throttle right before the accident. I see that as Stewart using his car to intimidate Ward. If Stewart didn't really see him, I doubt there wouldn't be any throttle blipping at that point because the race was under yellow. Just my viewpoint, but I think the jury got way too biased over the "intoxication" factor. I'd like to have seen all this evidence presented in court. Until then, my viewpoint is Stewart is not as "fault free" as he was luckily found to be.
Bottom line again is there needs to be strict rules for these racers when there are crashes on the track. People may need to jump out of their cars due to possible fire, etc ... and they should head to the closest side of the track while drivers coming around the track should immediately show down and head to the opposite side of the track if possible. Of course if the officials can't get the yellow flags out fast, or there are not radios in the car then those circumstances need to be handles accordingly.
Stop all this helmet throwing, wanting to fight on the track nonsense. Give heavy fines and race bans due to such behavior.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Bottom line again is there needs to be strict rules for these racers when there are crashes on the track. People may need to jump out of their cars due to possible fire, etc ... and they should head to the closest side of the track while drivers coming around the track should immediately show down and head to the opposite side of the track if possible. Of course if the officials can't get the yellow flags out fast, or there are not radios in the car then those circumstances need to be handles accordingly.
There are. Any legitimate racing sanctioning body has those rules in place. If this happened in F1 the driver would have had his Super License revoked in a heartbeat, assuming he wasn't killed. Every HPDE I have gone to began with a driver's meeting that everyone was required to attend. Part of that meeting included instructions saying that if there was an incident to stay in your car until marshalls directed otherwise, or it was on fire. If the car was on fire you were to exit, but stay in the vicinity of the vehicle until marshall arrived.
As far as Tony blipping the throttle, that is how you turn a sprint car. The front wheels are pretty much for show and spend a lot of the race off the ground. The stagger on the rear tires encourages it to turn left, so blipping the throttle will make it go left avoiding the person on track. They only have brakes on the left to again encourage turning left. But since they are direct drive and have no clutch or a starter, hitting the brakes will cause the car to stall and it would need a push-start to continue.
Bottom line again is there needs to be strict rules for these racers when there are crashes on the track. People may need to jump out of their cars due to possible fire, etc ... and they should head to the closest side of the track while drivers coming around the track should immediately show down and head to the opposite side of the track if possible. Of course if the officials can't get the yellow flags out fast, or there are not radios in the car then those circumstances need to be handles accordingly.
There are. Any legitimate racing sanctioning body has those rules in place. If this happened in F1 the driver would have had his Super License revoked in a heartbeat, assuming he wasn't killed. Every HPDE I have gone to began with a driver's meeting that everyone was required to attend. Part of that meeting included instructions saying that if there was an incident to stay in your car until marshalls directed otherwise, or it was on fire. If the car was on fire you were to exit, but stay in the vicinity of the vehicle until marshall arrived.
As far as Tony blipping the throttle, that is how you turn a sprint car. The front wheels are pretty much for show and spend a lot of the race off the ground. The stagger on the rear tires encourages it to turn left, so blipping the throttle will make it go left avoiding the person on track. They only have brakes on the left to again encourage turning left. But since they are direct drive and have no clutch or a starter, hitting the brakes will cause the car to stall and it would need a push-start to continue.
^^^ Steward should have been going slow enough to be able to steer/turn without blipping the throttle. He knew there was a crash (he was involved in it initially), and has a whole lap to slow down before comimg up on the crash site.
Also, from the article - due to this very incident:
"After Ward's death, NASCAR announced a rule that prohibits drivers from climbing out of a crashed or disabled vehicle — unless it is on fire — until safety personnel arrive."
Also, from the article - due to this very incident:
"After Ward's death, NASCAR announced a rule that prohibits drivers from climbing out of a crashed or disabled vehicle — unless it is on fire — until safety personnel arrive."
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