Rear wheel drive vehicles

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Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Driving style is definitely part of my issue with FWD in the snow. FWD tends to understeer badly under any throttle, and the only times I've had an issue with snap oversteer not induced by an ice patch have been in FWD cars (light rear end comes around FAST once provoked).

RWD, if it's set up right (especially in a setup with a lot of caster up front) will throw the rear end back in line with just a quick flick of the wheel, even with the vehicle almost totally sideways. The key is knowing how to time steering and throttle to get the rear end to stick on the recovery.

I also like being able to steer with the throttle, so when I hit a slick spot in a tight turn and it starts to push, it's nice to be able to blip the throttle, step the tail out a little and get the front end to hook back up (and rotate the vehicle through the turn).


Just how aggressively are you driving? Or are you talking about track driving?
 
When I worked at the tire shop in the late 60's I drove a '65 Pontiac GP. I trued up and balanced 4 cheap L70 snow tires-mounted on dedicated wheels. 4 of those with a couple 389/421 heads in the trunk made that really great car a very good winter driver. Dan Mpls. Mn.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Driving style is definitely part of my issue with FWD in the snow. FWD tends to understeer badly under any throttle, and the only times I've had an issue with snap oversteer not induced by an ice patch have been in FWD cars (light rear end comes around FAST once provoked).

RWD, if it's set up right (especially in a setup with a lot of caster up front) will throw the rear end back in line with just a quick flick of the wheel, even with the vehicle almost totally sideways. The key is knowing how to time steering and throttle to get the rear end to stick on the recovery.

I also like being able to steer with the throttle, so when I hit a slick spot in a tight turn and it starts to push, it's nice to be able to blip the throttle, step the tail out a little and get the front end to hook back up (and rotate the vehicle through the turn).


Just how aggressively are you driving? Or are you talking about track driving?


He means daily driving....not aggresively either I'm the same way too actually. RWD with manual offers the ultimate in control, especially with a set of snows
 
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
When I worked at the tire shop in the late 60's I drove a '65 Pontiac GP. I trued up and balanced 4 cheap L70 snow tires-mounted on dedicated wheels. 4 of those with a couple 389/421 heads in the trunk made that really great car a very good winter driver. Dan Mpls. Mn.
Weren't tires a lot narrower back then? I imagine a 4,000 lb. Pontiac riding on 205/80- 15's would have a fairly narrow footprint and might do better than 3800 lb. 5 series riding on 255/45-19's in the snow.
 
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The larger 8.55 and 9.10 sizings were then being replaced by H and L (I think?)aspect ratio 78 and then 70 and then 60 series. The snow tires were pretty deep treaded with wideer grooves so actual rubber contact wasn't probably as much higher one would expect even in a wider tire. They were noisy rummblers and many tires were out of round-fine for puttering around on surface streets in the city-not so great for highway, I trued alot of tires in the shop. Dan Mpls. Mn.
 
I thought I drove aggressively... I guess not. At least not compared to you guys. I can't feel a diff between FWD and RWD, and I use narrow OEM tires at that.

Then again, my experience has been, once the rear loses grip, I'm off in the ditch. RWD or FWD, hasn't matter yet.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I thought I drove aggressively... I guess not. At least not compared to you guys. I can't feel a diff between FWD and RWD, and I use narrow OEM tires at that.

Then again, my experience has been, once the rear loses grip, I'm off in the ditch. RWD or FWD, hasn't matter yet.


How often do you find yourself in the ditch?
I'm curious if this has only happened once or twice, of if this happens to you every third snow fall.

Also, do you use snow tires, or just whatever tires are mounted on your car when you first buy it?

I will wait until you reply before making any wild judgements about how you drive, or the condition of your car. Once you reply, I'm going full on judgmental, just so you know.
smile.gif


BC.
 
Originally Posted By: Bladecutter

How often do you find yourself in the ditch?
I'm curious if this has only happened once or twice, of if this happens to you every third snow fall.

Also, do you use snow tires, or just whatever tires are mounted on your car when you first buy it?

I will wait until you reply before making any wild judgements about how you drive, or the condition of your car. Once you reply, I'm going full on judgmental, just so you know.
smile.gif


BC.



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In twenty years of driving I've lost control three times. One was stupidity as a teen, and I don't count that. Otherwise, the first was after a year or two of driving, it was in a RWD van. Icey s turn, rear got loose and I could not recover. Second time was about ten years ago, fwd this time, hit a dip getting onto the highway and the rear got loose. Both cases with all seasons of probably half tread. Which had been "good enough" up until then. After the last one I started using snow tires, until this past winter.

Hmm, that record would imply I'm about due to slide off again this year. About every ten years, not too bad. I've been driving 25-32kmiles per year for the last fifteen years. I drive a bit less in snow now, but live in NH year round. I travel thro MA and CT quite a bit, and generally drive 75-80mph.

I couldn't tell you what tires were on either vehicle, other than they never made noise during cornering, and they were not the original tires. Round and black. For the last ten I've bought either Conti or Nokian, the Generals on my cars and the Michelins on my truck are first time buys. I generally get 40k on a set, running into the wear bars. I also get 100-150k on brakes, although this truck will likely need brakes long before then.
 
I haven't drive a "strictly" RWD vehicle in the winter, in a long time! I've been driving for ~50 years and my memory of those RWD Only vehicles(American Iron) from the 60's/70's in the severe snow/ice leaves me with a sour taste for RWD cars for daily drivers.
Yes, they're fine in good weather!

Yes, I still have a RWD in my stable but, that's for summers only!

I did drive a friends 4WD '97 Dodge Ram in the snow w/o being in 4WD and it sucked. And another friends '03 Lincoln LS RWD and it too sucked in the snow/ice. Got stuck in his driveway! And recently, I drove one of my BIL's '00 V6 S-10 RWD ONLY with snow tires and it's only OK!

I drove 3 different Pontiac Fiero's from the 80's in the winter and they were great in the snow. But, they were RWD w/rear engines so, of course they were OK!

I have not driven a recent BMW or Benz RWD ONLY vehicle with all of the modern stability control/traction control so, I can't answer for anything modern.

My BIL's BMW 328ix(AWD) is a different beast so, this is no comparison.
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby


I drove 3 different Pontiac Fiero's from the 80's in the winter and they were great in the snow. But, they were RWD w/rear engines so, of course they were OK!

My father told me that VW Beetles were popular because they were less likely to get stuck in snow when compared to most cars of the 1960s and early 1970s. Back then, dad would get his 1971 Corolla stuck, and he would get help from someone who had a VW Beetle.
 
Well back in 1971, all Toyota's were RWD! They weren't FWD til 1987. IIRC, the Camry was Toyota's 1st FWD car here in the States!
 
Originally Posted By: MCompact
The first FWD Toyota was the Tercel- a snooze-mobile in its own right...


Hmmmm, what year was that?
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: Char Baby


I drove 3 different Pontiac Fiero's from the 80's in the winter and they were great in the snow. But, they were RWD w/rear engines so, of course they were OK!

My father told me that VW Beetles were popular because they were less likely to get stuck in snow when compared to most cars of the 1960s and early 1970s. Back then, dad would get his 1971 Corolla stuck, and he would get help from someone who had a VW Beetle.


I remember that well , My understanding then was because of most of the weight was on the drive wheels.
wink.gif
 
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