Virgin TG8A cut open

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Bought this at Meijer for basically free with a $5 promo code I found in the deals/ sales sub forum last spring. Decided to donate it in the name of science.

Noticed the bent crimp seam. The one I previously posted that was ran for 6200 miles had a straight seem.


Look closely. Does that appear to be the start of a tear?



Thats a TOUGH GAURD????

It dont look like a TOUGH GAURD.. It looks like the Extra Gaurd.



It's a TG. The pleats by the seam are a bit wider, but the other side was spaced a bit closer together.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Even orange cans with gigantic pleat spacing at the seam don't tend to tear because IMO Fram's media is stronger. It's ugly, but it works. The Tough Guard media is stronger still. Not thinking this filter would have torn but we'll never know for sure. We do know it wasn't supposed to be put together like that though, can we say OOPS on that one Fram?

Lots of good points here KC

You have a point, there is good quality media and poor quality media....

I mean think or any product you buy....

If Frams Media needs less but is a high quality then thats why they use less.. Perhaps if they use to much it can cause the price to go up or can cause it to be less flow restrictive.

I go back and forth with FRAM.. However my Grandpa who has been a ASE Certified mechanic before I was even born has been using FRAM oil filters for over 40 years on his personal cars.... and in his Garage he could easily put a GROUP 7 Oil filter that has steal end caps but he does not. He says the steal end caps are only nessasary if the filter media is very THICK and needs it to stay in place ** For instance the FRAM ULTRA **

If Fram could of use Fiber End discs on the FRAM ULTRA they would of but the steal end discs were needed to hold all the filter media.

Also my Granpa used to do thing that made the younger mechanics LAUGH There Arses off at him.. Back when cars had carberators and a person came in with a car that another mechanic said you need your carb rebuilt... My grandpa would take tiny lil hammer and just tap around the carberator and you could actually hear the car start to idle better and better the more he tapped till it was perfect...

he said all it just some dirt in the carb and he just tapped on carb till it passed throough....

So old timers KNOW what they are talking about... My Granpa Garage is very succsesful in the CITY its located b/c he is very honest.. People would come in thinking they had a big problem and it ended up being something very small that he would fix in 2 minutes and it was FREE.

My Granpa said if FRAM oil filters were actually destroying Engines they would simply not sell them. He said its called Ethics.

Also I myself used Fram Extra gaurd for yearsssssss and never had a engine related problem.

Now Yes I know there are instances where a oil filter has failed but you have to take into account how many they sell.... Im sure FRAM sells 100x more oil filters then NAPA or WIX or Purolator or any of the other brands so there is more chance of failure.

My Granpa has a saying.

IF YOU DONT DO ANYTHING... THEN YOU CANT DO ANYTHING WRONG.

THE MORE YOU DO.. THE MORE YOU HAVE A CHANCE OF MAKING A MISTAKE.

I respect my Granpa.... He learned Engines in the ARMY .... He was in Pearl Harbor durring the ATTACK... He worked on Military trucks.... I have shown my granpa the picture of NAPA SILVER and the steal end caps and he says look at all the room between the steal and the filter media... The steal is wasted and not needed and he will just laugh.

He however does NOT say NAPA or any other brands are BAD... just claims FRAM Filters are good and do there Job and also he is in COLD COLD Weather... He lives in a place that only has 2 months of decent weather and the rest is COLD COLD BITTER COLD

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: David1


Thats a TOUGH GAURD????

It dont look like a TOUGH GAURD.. It looks like the Extra Gaurd.



It's a TG. The pleats by the seam are a bit wider, but the other side was spaced a bit closer together.



Looks more like a "Couldn't Guard."

The hypocrisy here is hilarious.

The King has no clothes.

You just can't say it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Still works better than a filter with a media tear/failure. Telling people it's OK to use filters with torn media is the epitome of Framphobic hypocrisy. LOL

 

[SilverC6]

Get over yourself.

 

[ZeeOSix]

You 1st.

 

[MrQuackers]

It's emperor. Jay has clothes, I saw them on youtube.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: David1


Thats a TOUGH GAURD????

It dont look like a TOUGH GAURD.. It looks like the Extra Gaurd.



It's a TG. The pleats by the seam are a bit wider, but the other side was spaced a bit closer together.



Looks more like a "Couldn't Guard."

The hypocrisy here is hilarious.

The King has no clothes.

You just can't say it.


Hypocrisy?

I posted what I consider a Fram failure and you're still gripping. Must be impossible to make you happy.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Some people just go into convulsions when they see the word Fram. Yet torn media makes them all calm and warm feeling. LOL

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
....I posted what I consider a Fram failure.....

So this was posted as an example of a "Fram failure". Without running it, hard to say if it actually would have failed, but agreed it is one bent looking misaligned metal seam.

The area I now want to see most post use on this type construction is the center tube ends to see if they are completely covered as previously noted by members by edhackett and OVERKILL.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
....I posted what I consider a Fram failure.....

So this was posted as an example of a "Fram failure". Without running it, hard to say if it actually would have failed, but agreed it is one bent looking misaligned metal seam.

The area I now want to see most post use on this type construction is the center tube ends to see if they are completely covered as previously noted by members by edhackett and OVERKILL.


Very true. Hard to say if it would have failed or not, but if I knew its condition prior to installing it on one of my vehicles, I would have returned it for another.

As for the center tube, I can see how one would think oil could sneak through. The bypass is secured in with the leaf spring and pressed firmly against the can making a snug seal. The bypass/ leaf spring even sits in the center tube maybe .25"-.5"? Oil would either be flowing though the media and/ or the bypass. I would think this would be the case with any filter having the bypass and media in 2 separate parts. The WIX made Napa Silver is the only other one I can think of, but I am sure there are more. Maybe just give the filter a good shake to see if everything is secure internally.. A lot like a DVD in the $5 bin at WM.

 

[Sayjac]

I'm aware of how the fiber endcap is supposed to function as designed and what it looks like unused, seen it many times. Point is the fiber area covering the center tube is narrow and pics posted here before show what they can look like post use, ie., uncovered and/or with no impression on endcap. Shaking the can would only make a difference if the leaf spring additionally completely failed prior to purchase.

The strawman that 'if' the fiber endcaps were strong enough no center tube would be needed is a moot point. The center tube in this fiber design is designed to be covered by the endcaps over the course of the oci to prevent bypass and maintain seal. The endcaps alone here is not designed to do that. That is why it is the area of most interest to me in post use dissections.

 

[abycat]

Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Even orange cans with gigantic pleat spacing at the seam don't tend to tear because IMO Fram's media is stronger. It's ugly, but it works. The Tough Guard media is stronger still. Not thinking this filter would have torn but we'll never know for sure. We do know it wasn't supposed to be put together like that though, can we say OOPS on that one Fram?

Lots of good points here KC

You have a point, there is good quality media and poor quality media....

I mean think or any product you buy....

If Frams Media needs less but is a high quality then thats why they use less.. Perhaps if they use to much it can cause the price to go up or can cause it to be less flow restrictive.

I go back and forth with FRAM.. However my Grandpa who has been a ASE Certified mechanic before I was even born has been using FRAM oil filters for over 40 years on his personal cars.... and in his Garage he could easily put a GROUP 7 Oil filter that has steal end caps but he does not. He says the steal end caps are only nessasary if the filter media is very THICK and needs it to stay in place ** For instance the FRAM ULTRA **

If Fram could of use Fiber End discs on the FRAM ULTRA they would of but the steal end discs were needed to hold all the filter media.

Also my Granpa used to do thing that made the younger mechanics LAUGH There Arses off at him.. Back when cars had carberators and a person came in with a car that another mechanic said you need your carb rebuilt... My grandpa would take tiny lil hammer and just tap around the carberator and you could actually hear the car start to idle better and better the more he tapped till it was perfect...

he said all it just some dirt in the carb and he just tapped on carb till it passed throough....

So old timers KNOW what they are talking about... My Granpa Garage is very succsesful in the CITY its located b/c he is very honest.. People would come in thinking they had a big problem and it ended up being something very small that he would fix in 2 minutes and it was FREE.

My Granpa said if FRAM oil filters were actually destroying Engines they would simply not sell them. He said its called Ethics.

Also I myself used Fram Extra gaurd for yearsssssss and never had a engine related problem.

Now Yes I know there are instances where a oil filter has failed but you have to take into account how many they sell.... Im sure FRAM sells 100x more oil filters then NAPA or WIX or Purolator or any of the other brands so there is more chance of failure.

My Granpa has a saying.

IF YOU DONT DO ANYTHING... THEN YOU CANT DO ANYTHING WRONG.

THE MORE YOU DO.. THE MORE YOU HAVE A CHANCE OF MAKING A MISTAKE.

I respect my Granpa.... He learned Engines in the ARMY .... He was in Pearl Harbor durring the ATTACK... He worked on Military trucks.... I have shown my granpa the picture of NAPA SILVER and the steal end caps and he says look at all the room between the steal and the filter media... The steal is wasted and not needed and he will just laugh.

He however does NOT say NAPA or any other brands are BAD... just claims FRAM Filters are good and do there Job and also he is in COLD COLD Weather... He lives in a place that only has 2 months of decent weather and the rest is COLD COLD BITTER COLD





your grandpa is a smart man.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'm aware of how the fiber endcap is supposed to function as designed and what it looks like unused, seen it many times. Point is the fiber area covering the center tube is narrow and pics posted here before show what they can look like post use, ie., uncovered and/or with no impression on endcap. Shaking the can would only make a difference if the leaf spring additionally completely failed prior to purchase.

The strawman that 'if' the fiber endcaps were strong enough no center tube would be needed is a moot point. The center tube in this fiber design is designed to be covered by the endcaps over the course of the oci to prevent bypass and maintain seal. The endcaps alone here is not designed to do that. That is why it is the area of most interest to me in post use dissections.


I guess I don't see the issue.

Unfiltered oil bypassing where the bypass/ leaf spring and center tube meet seem to be the concern right? I don't see it being possible if the leaf spring is fully intact and if the bypass is fully operational.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Maybe just give the filter a good shake to see if everything is secure internally.. A lot like a DVD in the $5 bin at WM.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
...I don't see it being possible if the leaf spring is fully intact and if the bypass is fully operational.

Then you haven't observed some of the post use filters posted here specifically pointing to the issue. The link below shows an example of the bypass area. Bypass being functional is irrelevant. The posters mentioned earlier do a commendable job of explaining it in that thread and I agree.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...the#Post3477625

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
...I don't see it being possible if the leaf spring is fully intact and if the bypass is fully operational.

Then you haven't observed some of the post use filters posted here specifically pointing to the issue. The link below shows an example of the bypass area. Bypass being functional is irrelevant. The posters mentioned earlier do a commendable job of explaining it in that thread and I agree.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...the#Post3477625


The photo in your posted thread is a PH16. We are talking about TG's in this situation. Don't be scraping the bottom of the barrel.

That being said, I never was a lower tiered filter fan..

Even though that filter looked terrible, I don't think tubular bypass was an issue. The bypass/ leaf spring sits inside the tube and it compressed inside the can. If the bypass wasn't opening, I could see tubular bypass being the 1 of many issues. As I have said, if the leaf spring is doing its job, you have nothing to worry about. All the internals (media, bypass/ leaf spring, ADBV) will stay compressed together.

You mentioned you like seeing post-use filters. Did you see this one I posted?

post- use TG8A

 

[Sayjac]

Pointless to go any further on this issue as you obviously don't want to the see issue nor it seems can comprehend what the two long time respected members have explained on both the EG and TG in that thread. Orange can or TG it matters not, similar end cap construction with the same area of concern as illustrated in link. And as the previous linked thread nowhere did it say that the issue will be seen on all orange cans or TG so your one anecdote proves nothing as regards said issue.

Have a good one.

 

[dlundblad]

We will just have to agree to disagree then. No worries.