0w oils: any advantage in warm climates?

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Pajamarama

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I live in the U.S. Southeast -- Atlanta to be exact. It doesn't get very cold here and when it does, it doesn't stay that way for long. Winter lows average around 40 deg F and highs around 60 deg F. I think the coldest low I have seen in my area in the last 7 years was 20 deg F and it was a freak thing. Springs, summers and falls are warm to hot.

Having read these boards for some time, I understand the 0w oils are great for colder climates to help speed oil flow in cold engines. But as I never see really cold temps, would 0w oils help my cars in any significant way? Being thinner when cold might help MPG until my engine gets up to temp, but that's not too long. When it does get up to temp then I would imagine a comparable 5w would be just as good.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against 0w oils. I just haven't considered them before and wondering if they would be right for me. If so, I can expand my oil choices. If not, I'll stick with my 5w's.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
Originally Posted By: Pajamarama
would 0w oils help my cars in any significant way?

Significant way? No. It might help a tiny bit.

With that said, there is no harm in running 0w-XX oil, so if price is the same, you might as well use it.
 
The way I see it, there aren't any drawbacks to using 0W20 instead of 5W20, so that's what I use.

With the oils I use, M1, QSUD, PU, I haven't noticed a price difference either.

It does get cold here, so there are more advantages for me.
 
Yes, I do realize that a 0w won't hurt my engine and that there aren't really any drawbacks to using it. I'm wondering, though, about benefits. 5w oils seem to be more plentiful, giving me more choices, and are more often on sale (my opinion).

I can see 0w's would be more beneficial if I do a lot of short trips and I'll keep that in mind.
 
More flow below operating temps, which is good and slightly better fuel economy.

The bad is possibly more viscosity index improvers, which can mean quicker thinning as the oil may break down quicker, and also higher NOACK volatility numbers are likely.

With all +'s there are -'s.
 
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Yes, because even at 60 degrees F the oil is still WAY thicker than it is at operating temperature.

For Mobil 1 0w40, it has an HTHS (viscosity @ 150C) of 3.8. Sitting in the oil pan, it's probably around 100C, where it has a viscosity of around 13.5. At 20 C (68 F, or a nice spring day), the viscosity is 180.8.

So even on a nice spring day, when you start the car up, the oil is probably 10-15x heavier than when it's warmed up in the oil pan, and 40-50x heavier than the hottest points of the engine such as bearings.
 
Originally Posted By: zfasts03

The bad is possibly more viscosity index improvers, which can mean quicker thinning as the oil may break down quicker, and also higher NOACK volatility numbers are likely.

Wrong on both counts.
Higher quality base oils are required to make 0W oils hence they may actually use less VIIs and their Noack values (who cars about Noack again?)can also be low. For example M1 AFE and TGMO 0W-20s have Noack in the 10% range and PP 0W-20 is 9%.

But yes 0W-20 oils are lighter at all start-up temp's, even at 100F and it's due to their higher viscosity indexes. In the case of the OEM 0W-20s such as TGMO and MGMO they can be as much as 30% lighter at room temp's and 50% lighter at 32F.
And every part of the US can see temp's that drop into the freezing range even in the SE US. So 0W-20 oils are simply more efficient "better" lubricants which is why more and more OEMs are specifying them.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
Yes, because even at 60 degrees F the oil is still WAY thicker than it is at operating temperature.

For Mobil 1 0w40, it has an HTHS (viscosity @ 150C) of 3.8. Sitting in the oil pan, it's probably around 100C, where it has a viscosity of around 13.5. At 20 C (68 F, or a nice spring day), the viscosity is 180.8.

So even on a nice spring day, when you start the car up, the oil is probably 10-15x heavier than when it's warmed up in the oil pan, and 40-50x heavier than the hottest points of the engine such as bearings.


Interesting point, and probably a good reason to use a 0w oil anywhere.

When I have looked at an oil's specs, I often see the viscosity given for only a few temperature points -- very very low, very very high and maybe 40 deg C. Are we left to interpolate viscosity at other temperatures on our own? Or is there some other way to find viscosity at arbitrary temps on the scale?
 
Originally Posted By: Pajamarama
I live in the U.S. Southeast -- Atlanta to be exact. It doesn't get very cold here and when it does, it doesn't stay that way for long. Winter lows average around 40 deg F and highs around 60 deg F. I think the coldest low I have seen in my area in the last 7 years was 20 deg F and it was a freak thing. Springs, summers and falls are warm to hot.

Having read these boards for some time, I understand the 0w oils are great for colder climates to help speed oil flow in cold engines. But as I never see really cold temps, would 0w oils help my cars in any significant way? Being thinner when cold might help MPG until my engine gets up to temp, but that's not too long. When it does get up to temp then I would imagine a comparable 5w would be just as good.

Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against 0w oils. I just haven't considered them before and wondering if they would be right for me. If so, I can expand my oil choices. If not, I'll stick with my 5w's.

Thanks for your thoughts.


My home states bookend yours. ANd what my experience teaches me is that here in the south the practical diference between a 0w and a 5w oil doesn't amount to a hill of beans. It is doubtful whether you would ever be able to tell the difference between the two in any meaningful way.

I do however agree with CATERHAM that 0w oils typically have better base oils.

Bottom line is buy whichever you like best, or is on sale, or more available etc...
 
The 0w-XX oils represent a trend toward improved lubrication no matter how small that step might be. The selling point might now be cold weather operation but every little step made in oil technology ultimately benefits us all. I use 0w-30 oil in a 30 year old Civic with great results and this care has never seen snow and not much rain in Southern California and is always parked in the garage.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The 0w-XX oils represent a trend toward improved lubrication no matter how small that step might be. The selling point might now be cold weather operation but every little step made in oil technology ultimately benefits us all. I use 0w-30 oil in a 30 year old Civic with great results and this care has never seen snow and not much rain in Southern California and is always parked in the garage.

More or less the same with my FX4 in Texas, never cold enough to "need" a 0W-xx, but if the cost is the same and since the 0W-xx is likely a higher quality oil versus a 5W-xx, then why not use it? M1 AFE 0W-20 has been the best performing oil in my long runs of UOAs to date.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: zfasts03

The bad is possibly more viscosity index improvers, which can mean quicker thinning as the oil may break down quicker, and also higher NOACK volatility numbers are likely.

Wrong on both counts.
Higher quality base oils are required to make 0W oils hence they may actually use less VIIs and their Noack values (who cars about Noack again?)can also be low. For example M1 AFE and TGMO 0W-20s have Noack in the 10% range and PP 0W-20 is 9%.


Given that Visom and SHell XHVI 4 cst oils don't pour below -20C, how can they make them without quite high VII and PPDs ?

At least half their KV100 is by addition of polymers...

Out of interest, where did you get the NOACK for TGMO....I need the source for the TGMO FAQ, where I can update all the other made up facts about the oil that we know more about than any other
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: zfasts03

The bad is possibly more viscosity index improvers, which can mean quicker thinning as the oil may break down quicker, and also higher NOACK volatility numbers are likely.

Wrong on both counts.
Higher quality base oils are required to make 0W oils hence they may actually use less VIIs and their Noack values (who cars about Noack again?)can also be low. For example M1 AFE and TGMO 0W-20s have Noack in the 10% range and PP 0W-20 is 9%.

But yes 0W-20 oils are lighter at all start-up temp's, even at 100F and it's due to their higher viscosity indexes. In the case of the OEM 0W-20s such as TGMO and MGMO they can be as much as 30% lighter at room temp's and 50% lighter at 32F.
And every part of the US can see temp's that drop into the freezing range even in the SE US. So 0W-20 oils are simply more efficient "better" lubricants which is why more and more OEMs are specifying them.

^^^^Agree with the above^^^^ 0w20 oils are made with more pure and more stable base oils....and outperform in the areas of low and high-temperature endurance, fuel economy, shear stability and opportunity to extend drain intervals. There are additional advantages for those with high performance engines or those driving under adverse conditions.
 
There probably is a real advantage but in practice it's not much.
I'd use whichever grade you can get the best deal on.
The 5W-20 vs 0W-20 debate is akin to asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
IOW, in a warmish climate, it makes no difference.
If you're willing to search out a high VI 0W-20 at a good price, then have at it.
If Walmart's offerings in the 0W-20 or 5W-20 grade represent the extent of your willingness to find deals on oils, then your engine will still be just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Pajamarama
Are we left to interpolate viscosity at other temperatures on our own? Or is there some other way to find viscosity at arbitrary temps on the scale?

You can use a viscosity calculator. It won't be very accurate once you get to below freezing temps, but it'll give you an idea...

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html



Thanks for the chart QP, I recall using it several months ago but could not find it again!




Using the chart, not much difference at freezing, but an edge to the 0w....
 
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian

0w20 oils are made with more pure and more stable base oils....and outperform in the areas of low and high-temperature endurance, fuel economy, shear stability and opportunity to extend drain intervals. There are additional advantages for those with high performance engines or those driving under adverse conditions.


If thinner and thinner is ALWAYS better, why stop there? Why use 0-20? Go to 0-10, or 0-5 or better yet straight 0. 0 weight oil would be the ultimate best oil of all time, right??
 
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