Ran into this product today. Can anyone tell me about this, and what this stuff is?
Power Up
- Thread starter huskerbill74
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chlor parriffn like most of the hokey "metal" treatments
bruce
bruce
Bruce 381 Is this the stuff that will turn to HCL after a time in your engine, or am I thinking of something else?
Originally Posted By: huskerbill74
Bruce 381 Is this the stuff that will turn to HCL after a time in your engine, or am I thinking of something else?
I'm not Bruce, but yes.
Bruce 381 Is this the stuff that will turn to HCL after a time in your engine, or am I thinking of something else?
I'm not Bruce, but yes.
I'm not Bruce either, but I believe that the product initially forms ferrous chloride sealing the metal initially, followed by a high likely hood or corrosion thereafter.
Short term gain followed by deterioration, IMO.
Short term gain followed by deterioration, IMO.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Testing by Fluid Engineering Services Inc., in Stillwater, Oklahoma, with over 80 years of fluid power engineering experience, concluded that “test results reveal that the Power Up NNL-690 has an SLI (Service Life Improvement) of 2.5 over regular oils alone.” This means when NNL 690 was tested with conventional oils it increased the component life at least 2 1/2 times longer than oils that were not treated.
Not by normal rules of English. It simply means that PU alone has an SLI 2.5 times greater than Oil alone; not that engine components would last 2.5 times longer.
SLI is one of those "invented" phrases that cannot be tested or quantified. Buyer beware.
Testing by Fluid Engineering Services Inc., in Stillwater, Oklahoma, with over 80 years of fluid power engineering experience, concluded that “test results reveal that the Power Up NNL-690 has an SLI (Service Life Improvement) of 2.5 over regular oils alone.” This means when NNL 690 was tested with conventional oils it increased the component life at least 2 1/2 times longer than oils that were not treated.
Not by normal rules of English. It simply means that PU alone has an SLI 2.5 times greater than Oil alone; not that engine components would last 2.5 times longer.
SLI is one of those "invented" phrases that cannot be tested or quantified. Buyer beware.
I Have a patent around somewhere and it was something like 30-40% chlor parriffin some High overbased CA sulfonate for acid control and base oil with some "solvent" think was a iso parrafinic like a XOM "Norpar" or "Isopar".
bruce
bruce
This is the Reply I had emailed to me regarding corrosion and CP in relationship to engine internals. What do you think of this?
P.S., I called several companies listed by a rep that run Power up and asked if they have seen any problems with the addative in their UOA's in the OVR trucks and fleet vehicles and there was none to be found, thats what I was told anyway.
Maryn International Ltd.
Bay #5, 4216 – 54th Ave S.E.
Calgary, Alberta T2C 2E3
(ph) 403-252-2239
(fax) 403-253-5791
August 20, 2014
RE: Formation of Hydrochloric Acid with Power Up NNL-690 due to the presence of chlorine.
NNL-690 contains a thermally stable, non-regulated, non-hazardous chlorinated paraffin; it contains no unstable chlorinated solvents that may be regulated by the EPA. These unstable chlorinated solvents, in addition to being hazardous materials, have very poor thermal stability. This means that they can dissociate into chloride ions at moderate temperatures and is only one of many reasons why we do not use them. The type of chlorinated paraffin (not chlorinated solvent, an important distinction) we use is thermally stable to temperatures above typical bulk motor oil temperatures.
Concern about acidic build-up in lubricating oils is not limited to chlorinated paraffins. If sufficient water contamination and high enough temperatures exists within an engine then, even in the absence of chlorine containing compounds, acidic by-products will result. Phosphorus will form phosphoric acid, sulfur will form sulfuric acid and carbon dioxide or nitrogen from blowby will form carboxylic and nitric acids. Of these, only carboxylation and nitration of motor oils occurs to any appreciable extent. These acids predominately form in the combustion chamber as conditions are not extreme enough for facile acid production in the oil sump; a small amount of the acidic gases formed in the combustion chamber escape the cylinder and contaminate the oil. Virtually all common motor oils contain additives that contain sulfur and phosphorus. Why then do they not create acids and promote corrosion in the engine? Because the additives are thermally stable at the less extreme, crankcase oil temperatures. This is also the case with Power Up NNL-690. The chlorinated paraffin it contains is stable under normal engine conditions and does not create harmful acids.
If it were not thermally stable at these temperatures, then increased acidity would promote the corrosion of metal alloys used in engines. Power Up NNL-690 has been tested for ASTM D130 Copper Corrosion from Petroleum Products and D665 Rust Preventing Characteristics of Inhibited Mineral Oil in the Presence of Water. The results of these tests are listed in the NNL-690 Technical Data Sheet. The Copper Corrosion rating of pure NNL-690 is 1b, or a slight tarnish left on the copper test coupon. A freshly polished copper strip has a rating of 1a, and the ratings are in diminishing order 1a, 1b, 2a-2e (moderate tarnish), 3a-3c (dark tarnish) and 4a-4c (corrosion). The ASTM D665 test is carried out in the presence of both distilled water and synthetic sea water. In both of these conditions samples of pure NNL-690 passed the rust test. If it were to form acids which promote corrosion it would not pass these important standardized ASTM procedures.
As added insurance against increased acidity from contamination, Power Up NNL-690 contains an alkaline reserve component that gives it a high Base Number. This means that NNL-690 increases the oil's ability to neutralize acids that are formed under the severe combustion chamber conditions and contaminate motor oil as blowby gases. It will also neutralize acidic compounds formed by oxidation and water contamination in hydraulic systems. Power Up NNL-690 is used in countless engines and hydraulic systems by customers who closely monitor the system condition with routine oil analysis. If NNL-690 created acid in these systems, the oil analysis Acid Number (in hydraulic oils) and Base Number (for engines) values would immediately warn the users of oil degradation. This is not the case as evidenced by the number of large fleet customers who continue to use NNL-690 and routine oil analysis programs.
Customers can eliminate any and all concerns by utilizing a routine oil analysis program as part of the predictive fleet maintenance program, if they are not already doing so. Power Up Lubricants strongly recommend routine oil analysis as the best and most economic method of preventive maintenance available, and it will also help to document wear reductions realized with NNL-690. Power Up offers its distributors and their customers an inexpensive, comprehensive, third party oil analysis package that includes Spectrographic wear and additive levels, oil viscosities, check for fuel or water/glycol contamination and TBN for engines (TAN for hydraulic systems) at a very reasonable price.
It should also be mentioned that chlorinated paraffins remain to this day an active area of research due to their beneficial effects as extreme pressure additives in lubricants. Some recommended articles include:
1. Effects of Chlorinated Paraffin and ZDDP Concentrations on Boundary Lubrication Properties of Mineral and Soybean Oils
Author(s): Asadauskas SJ, Biresaw G, McClure TG
Source: TRIBOLOGY LETTERS Volume: 37 Issue: 2 Pages: 111-121 Published: FEB 2010
2. Tribological behavior of the synthetic chlorine- and fluorine-containing silicon oil as aerospace lubricant
Author(s): Weng LJ, Wang HZ, Feng DP, et al.
Source: INDUSTRIAL LUBRICATION AND TRIBOLOGY Volume: 60 Issue: 5 Pages: 216-221 Published: 2008
3. Understanding the tribological chemistry of chlorine-, sulfur- and phosphorus-containing additives
Author(s): Furlong O, Gao F, Kotvis P, et al.
Conference Information: 32nd Leeds-Lyon Symposium on Tribology, SEP 06-09, 2005 Inst Natl Sci Applicat Lyon, Lyon, FRANCE
Source: TRIBOLOGY INTERNATIONAL Volume: 40 Issue: 5 Pages: 699-708 Published: MAY 2007
4. On the chemical nature of boundary lubrication of stainless steel by chlorine- and sulfur-containing EP-additives
Author(s): Petrushina IM, Christensen E, Bergqvist RS, et al.
Source: WEAR Volume: 246 Issue: 1-2 Pages: 98-105 Published: NOV 2000
Brett Chandler, Ph.D. Chemistry
Senior Research Chemist
Maryn International Ltd.
Bay #5 4216-54th Ave S.E.
Calgary , Alberta T2C 2E3
(403)-252-2239 x6177
www.maryninternational.com
P.S., I called several companies listed by a rep that run Power up and asked if they have seen any problems with the addative in their UOA's in the OVR trucks and fleet vehicles and there was none to be found, thats what I was told anyway.
Maryn International Ltd.
Bay #5, 4216 – 54th Ave S.E.
Calgary, Alberta T2C 2E3
(ph) 403-252-2239
(fax) 403-253-5791
August 20, 2014
RE: Formation of Hydrochloric Acid with Power Up NNL-690 due to the presence of chlorine.
NNL-690 contains a thermally stable, non-regulated, non-hazardous chlorinated paraffin; it contains no unstable chlorinated solvents that may be regulated by the EPA. These unstable chlorinated solvents, in addition to being hazardous materials, have very poor thermal stability. This means that they can dissociate into chloride ions at moderate temperatures and is only one of many reasons why we do not use them. The type of chlorinated paraffin (not chlorinated solvent, an important distinction) we use is thermally stable to temperatures above typical bulk motor oil temperatures.
Concern about acidic build-up in lubricating oils is not limited to chlorinated paraffins. If sufficient water contamination and high enough temperatures exists within an engine then, even in the absence of chlorine containing compounds, acidic by-products will result. Phosphorus will form phosphoric acid, sulfur will form sulfuric acid and carbon dioxide or nitrogen from blowby will form carboxylic and nitric acids. Of these, only carboxylation and nitration of motor oils occurs to any appreciable extent. These acids predominately form in the combustion chamber as conditions are not extreme enough for facile acid production in the oil sump; a small amount of the acidic gases formed in the combustion chamber escape the cylinder and contaminate the oil. Virtually all common motor oils contain additives that contain sulfur and phosphorus. Why then do they not create acids and promote corrosion in the engine? Because the additives are thermally stable at the less extreme, crankcase oil temperatures. This is also the case with Power Up NNL-690. The chlorinated paraffin it contains is stable under normal engine conditions and does not create harmful acids.
If it were not thermally stable at these temperatures, then increased acidity would promote the corrosion of metal alloys used in engines. Power Up NNL-690 has been tested for ASTM D130 Copper Corrosion from Petroleum Products and D665 Rust Preventing Characteristics of Inhibited Mineral Oil in the Presence of Water. The results of these tests are listed in the NNL-690 Technical Data Sheet. The Copper Corrosion rating of pure NNL-690 is 1b, or a slight tarnish left on the copper test coupon. A freshly polished copper strip has a rating of 1a, and the ratings are in diminishing order 1a, 1b, 2a-2e (moderate tarnish), 3a-3c (dark tarnish) and 4a-4c (corrosion). The ASTM D665 test is carried out in the presence of both distilled water and synthetic sea water. In both of these conditions samples of pure NNL-690 passed the rust test. If it were to form acids which promote corrosion it would not pass these important standardized ASTM procedures.
As added insurance against increased acidity from contamination, Power Up NNL-690 contains an alkaline reserve component that gives it a high Base Number. This means that NNL-690 increases the oil's ability to neutralize acids that are formed under the severe combustion chamber conditions and contaminate motor oil as blowby gases. It will also neutralize acidic compounds formed by oxidation and water contamination in hydraulic systems. Power Up NNL-690 is used in countless engines and hydraulic systems by customers who closely monitor the system condition with routine oil analysis. If NNL-690 created acid in these systems, the oil analysis Acid Number (in hydraulic oils) and Base Number (for engines) values would immediately warn the users of oil degradation. This is not the case as evidenced by the number of large fleet customers who continue to use NNL-690 and routine oil analysis programs.
Customers can eliminate any and all concerns by utilizing a routine oil analysis program as part of the predictive fleet maintenance program, if they are not already doing so. Power Up Lubricants strongly recommend routine oil analysis as the best and most economic method of preventive maintenance available, and it will also help to document wear reductions realized with NNL-690. Power Up offers its distributors and their customers an inexpensive, comprehensive, third party oil analysis package that includes Spectrographic wear and additive levels, oil viscosities, check for fuel or water/glycol contamination and TBN for engines (TAN for hydraulic systems) at a very reasonable price.
It should also be mentioned that chlorinated paraffins remain to this day an active area of research due to their beneficial effects as extreme pressure additives in lubricants. Some recommended articles include:
1. Effects of Chlorinated Paraffin and ZDDP Concentrations on Boundary Lubrication Properties of Mineral and Soybean Oils
Author(s): Asadauskas SJ, Biresaw G, McClure TG
Source: TRIBOLOGY LETTERS Volume: 37 Issue: 2 Pages: 111-121 Published: FEB 2010
2. Tribological behavior of the synthetic chlorine- and fluorine-containing silicon oil as aerospace lubricant
Author(s): Weng LJ, Wang HZ, Feng DP, et al.
Source: INDUSTRIAL LUBRICATION AND TRIBOLOGY Volume: 60 Issue: 5 Pages: 216-221 Published: 2008
3. Understanding the tribological chemistry of chlorine-, sulfur- and phosphorus-containing additives
Author(s): Furlong O, Gao F, Kotvis P, et al.
Conference Information: 32nd Leeds-Lyon Symposium on Tribology, SEP 06-09, 2005 Inst Natl Sci Applicat Lyon, Lyon, FRANCE
Source: TRIBOLOGY INTERNATIONAL Volume: 40 Issue: 5 Pages: 699-708 Published: MAY 2007
4. On the chemical nature of boundary lubrication of stainless steel by chlorine- and sulfur-containing EP-additives
Author(s): Petrushina IM, Christensen E, Bergqvist RS, et al.
Source: WEAR Volume: 246 Issue: 1-2 Pages: 98-105 Published: NOV 2000
Brett Chandler, Ph.D. Chemistry
Senior Research Chemist
Maryn International Ltd.
Bay #5 4216-54th Ave S.E.
Calgary , Alberta T2C 2E3
(403)-252-2239 x6177
www.maryninternational.com
Sent you a PM. I know a little about this product....
in case anyone was wondering here is where you can take a look at the technical data sheet and the msds:
PowerUp EngineMaxx
In the USA PowerUp EngineMaxx is sold under the name NNL690.
in case anyone was wondering here is where you can take a look at the technical data sheet and the msds:
PowerUp EngineMaxx
In the USA PowerUp EngineMaxx is sold under the name NNL690.
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