Senseless engine bashing

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dlundblad

dlundblad

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A friend and I were talking cars when a fellow class mate butted in by saying how the Jeep incline 6 engines are "complete junk". Anything 80s and newer. He knows this because he has a part time job detailing used cars. When I asked him why they were "complete junk", his response wasnt a lack of power, excess weight, cracked piston skirts, excessive noise or 0331 head failure..

It was because they overheat too easily due to poor waterflow. WHAT??

Please. Please for the sake of everything, know your facts before stating such nonsense. I just agreed with him and let it go.. I was at a lose for words.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
A friend and I were talking cars when a fellow class mate butted in by saying how the Jeep incline 6 engines are "complete junk". Anything 80s and newer. He knows this because he has a part time job detailing used cars. When I asked him why they were "complete junk", his response wasnt a lack of power, excess weight, cracked piston skirts, excessive noise or 0331 head failure..

It was because they overheat too easily due to poor waterflow. WHAT??

Please. Please for the sake of everything, know your facts before stating such nonsense. I just agreed with him and let it go.. I was at a lose for words.


Well - he does have a point.

I have replaced my engine as it had a piston skirt failure at 96K and it was catastrophic. The indy shop that did the work said they had done a few 4.0 engines with same issue. The #331 head is a real issue. I have not had that.

As as I found out very recently, the injectors are poor design and you can pick up 5 MPG by getting better designed ones. And there are the substandard Teves calipers that need to be replaced with larger Akebono calipers. And two sets of pressure sensor/governor for the transmission ($500 a pop).

But I do believe the piston skirt issue came about with 2000 engine. Something changed with the position of the rings and allowed more wobble which starts the cracked piston skirt. In my engine the rod was no longer connected to the piston.

The basic 4.0 engine is a workhorse, but Chrysler made changes here and there which caused issues.
 
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The slant 6 was flawed too,no matter how legendary people think they were.They didn't get hydraulic lifters until 1981 (bet nobody back then knew they had to adjust valves every 15K miles) and died in 1987 with a measley 84 hp (the same as the 2.2 4 cylinder 1981-82).60s and early 70s models needed spark plug air boots like air cooled VWs,and as the engine was designed to be aluminum not cast iron,the castings are thick and very heavy.Wonder why inline 6s aren't made anymore..weight,fuel economy,performance,and gasket leaks.Boy could those 6 in a rows leak.
 
The water flow issue is a new one on me. Most 4.0 overheating situations are from excessive offroading. I suppose a cracked head could cause an engine to overheat.. and waterflow would be an issue then!
laugh.gif


The injector upgrade is a new one on me. What brand/ models to people upgrade to?

The Teve caliper issue isnt a big deal for me and is only WJ oriented. Its a pretty easy fix for the older models and Chrysler fixed it in the later models.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The water flow issue is a new one on me. Most 4.0 overheating situations are from excessive offroading. I suppose a cracked head could cause an engine to overheat.. and waterflow would be an issue then!
laugh.gif


The injector upgrade is a new one on me. What brand/ models to people upgrade to?

The Teve caliper issue isnt a big deal for me and is only WJ oriented. Its a pretty easy fix for the older models and Chrysler fixed it in the later models.


I have a recent post about MPG improvement in the Mechanical section with respect to new injectors (Neon injectors I believe).

The Teves upgrade (service TSB, not recall) is easy to do but does cost several hundred when all is said and done.
 
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Not quite a triumph in powerplant evolution and design, but it sure beats walking or waiting for a bus.

"Some men you just can't reach."
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Wonder why inline 6s aren't made anymore..weight,fuel economy,performance,and gasket leaks.Boy could those 6 in a rows leak.


The technology is obsolete no doubt, but a 19 year run with the same engine isnt too bad. EPA requirements are what killed it. The weight, performance, MPG and leaky RMS's sure didnt stop Jeep in all those years.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The water flow issue is a new one on me. Most 4.0 overheating situations are from excessive offroading. I suppose a cracked head could cause an engine to overheat.. and waterflow would be an issue then!
laugh.gif


The injector upgrade is a new one on me. What brand/ models to people upgrade to?

The Teve caliper issue isnt a big deal for me and is only WJ oriented. Its a pretty easy fix for the older models and Chrysler fixed it in the later models.


I have a recent post about MPG improvement in the Mechanical section with respect to new injectors (Neon injectors I believe).

The Teves upgrade (service TSB, not recall) is easy to do but does cost several hundred when all is said and done.


Ouch. Can you just get refurbished Akebonos at a parts store?
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The water flow issue is a new one on me. Most 4.0 overheating situations are from excessive offroading. I suppose a cracked head could cause an engine to overheat.. and waterflow would be an issue then!
laugh.gif


The injector upgrade is a new one on me. What brand/ models to people upgrade to?


Well, take an older 4.0 Cherokee Jeep with the original radiator, have it idling with the A/C on in stop-and-go traffic at 100 degrees and chances are it will run in the borderline area of about 220+ degrees or warmer. The radiator, not being very tall, really is not quite up to size. I have an aftermarket 3-core on mine that made a world of difference. Some of the older Cherokees have both a mechanical fan and an electrical fan. Some people put a Taurus electrical fan in place of the stock one to help keep things cool. With my new radiator, I can't remember the last time the electrical fan was on.
The injector swap is a simple one and can be done by anybody with marginal mechanical experience. The orignal injector has one hole. The injector that most people swap to has four holes that was put on Neon (and other) Chrysler models. I've kept mine stock. I believe there is another injector that has been tried, but the swap is not near as popular. Some people seem to get good results with the injector swap, especially at idle, some have problems and go back to the original injector.
 
Not all new vehicles are "infallible" just look at the Ford 6.0L PowerJOKE diesel motor.


...and most motors are ruined by new EPA mandates, NOT obsolescence!!!


What makes a motor obsolete? That is like saying my old dozer is obsolete because it is all-mechanical diesel, yet it still does the job!!
 
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Well i don't think they are bad engines at all my family owned this engine shop that i now own for many many years and that is not one of the bad engines, there were thousands and thousands of those engines made over the 20 or so years and most lasted a long time untouched.

As for overheating that was not the engine at all it was actually due to the electric fan not working and people not knowing why. Does anyone know why that was happening? I do.
And that minor problem caused some of the head problems and other things as well.
 
I have a 96/Cherokee 4.0 that used to run the electric overheat fan occasionally. Changed the fan clutch and water pump. Only time elect. Fan comes on is when the ac is engaged. A little routine maint. goes a long way.
 
Sorry guys but the injector swap is not going to net +5 MPG in a 4.0L.

As far as being "junk" - that's pretty laughable. I'm not even going to get into it.
 
My wife's 'snow vehicle' is a '93 Grand=one of the first built. She won't let it go and I don't really blame her-been a good one. The 4.0 is fine for her with snow conditions. Plugs-wires-starter-tires-brakes-water pump and lots of oil changes over the years and 150k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
Not all new vehicles are "infallible" just look at the Ford 6.0L PowerJOKE diesel motor.




You mean the International VT365, its predecessor being the DT444 (Powerstroke 7.3L in Ford Land).
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The water flow issue is a new one on me. Most 4.0 overheating situations are from excessive offroading. I suppose a cracked head could cause an engine to overheat.. and waterflow would be an issue then!
laugh.gif


The injector upgrade is a new one on me. What brand/ models to people upgrade to?

The Teve caliper issue isnt a big deal for me and is only WJ oriented. Its a pretty easy fix for the older models and Chrysler fixed it in the later models.


I have a recent post about MPG improvement in the Mechanical section with respect to new injectors (Neon injectors I believe).

The Teves upgrade (service TSB, not recall) is easy to do but does cost several hundred when all is said and done.


Ouch. Can you just get refurbished Akebonos at a parts store?


You can, but I think Jeep is embarrassed about this and has an upgrade kit with everything you need for a low price. The calipers are larger and you need different mounting bracket or bolts I think. I get Jeep stuff from Steve White Motors in NC. The have low prices for mail order Jeep parts (they are a Jeep dealer).
 
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