putting oil in the filter at oil change?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: exranger06

I pre-fill filters that mount horizontally too. I just fill them about halfway instead of all the way. I can get the filter on without spilling a drop.


Thats what i do as well. At least the filter element is wet with oil, and some is in there. I've always heard that slightly more wear occurs after a fresh oil change. Makes me wonder if its not the old antiwear layer being removed, but the engine running a few seconds unpressurized.
 
I did an oil change on a friend's S2000, using a dealer filter and good synthetic the correct weight, and upon startup, that thing sounded like it had rod knock in a 4 cylinders for about 5 seconds. No thanks. Next time, I pre-filled, and it hardly made a noise.
 
I fill mine to the top once and let it settle while I remove the old one. I also crank the engine a little with the coil wire unplugged, per my owners' manual.
But then again, I drive a car from 1963.
My big block engines tend to knock unless I do these things. On later cars from the 80's and onwards, this doesn't seem to be much of an issue.
 
I always prefill.
Pipe banging argument doesn't stick. Air pocket is an arrester to pipe banging. Your mechanical engineer isn't a plumber. Oil flow isn't sealed/enclosed. It's metered in multiple places. Theres no off valve like your kitchen faucet.

Even though oil isn't ISO filtered, it's clean enough for me.

Always prefill or wet the media.

Makes me wonder how many tear their own dry media with the rev happy lead foot after an oil change.
 
I do my own hydronic plumbing, Greasy
smile.gif
You are correct regarding how a home water hammer occurs. But having an oil slug with air before and after it will shoot it with the efficacy of a 4.5 pellet round
I wasn't saying the hammer of the oil wad(s) was going to cause any damage - more at the cup of oil in the filter if COMPLETELY FILLED could inhibit prime. I've have more VVTI racket issues on a prefilled filter on Toyota engine than when they went in dry. Like I said, I 1/2 way prefill now.

Now, how about my wife's new forester FB25 with the filter inverted at the highest point of the engine? The filter is empty 2 hours after every shutoff - Empty filter every start - and the car has chain timing, VVT, TCT, stationary HLS!
 
The only car i service with a vertically hanging filter is the Elantra. It screams after the oil change whether i add oil or not.

Since the filter was removed, all the oil galleries drained. It will dry start no matter what you do. Maybe just a little less depending on the engine's design.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Now, how about my wife's new forester FB25 with the filter inverted at the highest point of the engine? The filter is empty 2 hours after every shutoff - Empty filter every start - and the car has chain timing, VVT, TCT, stationary HLS!



The filter on my Tacoma 4.0L V6 is vertical with base down on top of the engine. If you use a filter with a good silicone ADBV it shouldn't drain the filter out.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Now, how about my wife's new forester FB25 with the filter inverted at the highest point of the engine? The filter is empty 2 hours after every shutoff - Empty filter every start - and the car has chain timing, VVT, TCT, stationary HLS!



The filter on my Tacoma 4.0L V6 is vertical with base down on top of the engine. If you use a filter with a good silicone ADBV it shouldn't drain the filter out.


Sounds messy. Does it have some sort of catcher so oil doesnt spill on everything?

Our boat has the same filter location and unfortuently it does not have one.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

Now, how about my wife's new forester FB25 with the filter inverted at the highest point of the engine? The filter is empty 2 hours after every shutoff - Empty filter every start - and the car has chain timing, VVT, TCT, stationary HLS!



The filter on my Tacoma 4.0L V6 is vertical with base down on top of the engine. If you use a filter with a good silicone ADBV it shouldn't drain the filter out.


Sounds messy. Does it have some sort of catcher so oil doesnt spill on everything?

Our boat has the same filter location and unfortuently it does not have one.


It does have a catcher below the filter mount. But I just punch a hole in the top dome of the filter and let it drain for 30 minutes before removing it. No mess using this trick. Learned this years ago with RX-7s.
 
The FB25 Subarus filter is indeed empty - I see/feel it when I change the oil. The hot 20 grade OIL drains out the mains fitting down to the adbv collar after shutoff. There must be a place for air to get in from the crankcase through the upper oil galleries/ bearings.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: 6starprez
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: gregk24
You will hear both sides on this one. I always pre-fill my oil filters before installing, you will have oil pressure that much sooner so its worth it IMO.


Me too, if the design of the filter allows. Some cars have an inverted filter (like the 300E) and it can't be done.


The filter on my Subaru is inverted (threads down) and I do it without making a mess.
That inverted, above drill FB25 Subaru filter is empty every day - so no need to prefill at OCI
smile.gif


I DO pour oil into the mains drill on this engine - as its looking up at me, crying out.

Otherwise, as THIS subject like many this week has been discussed ad nauseam; a proper Mechanical Engineering response:
In prefilling, you having just created a lump of oil between the pump and the mains gallery, with a light duty engine and filter, is NOT going to help and MAY well hurt as it may inhibit prime and pumping; it will accelerate a "wad" of oil along the main drill, to eventually (in Msec) hammer-out from the compressed air cavity residing beforethe oil slug, and the air bubble after the oil slug. Just think massive water hammer.

I do understand the need to prefill med duty truck canisters.

The safe thing is a partial prefill - say half or third. Another misunderstanding: ADBV is not influenced by orientation, but more at the vertical position in latitude
above the sump but under the top minor galleries. It (The ADBV) will still operate as a proper check valve


That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. If that was the case the whole ADBV concept would be bunk as it would create the oil "wad."
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech


Makes me wonder how many tear their own dry media with the rev happy lead foot after an oil change.


I have wondered that, too! Is there enough pressure against the dry media, before the oil soaks in, to cause a tear?
 
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech


Makes me wonder how many tear their own dry media with the rev happy lead foot after an oil change.


I have wondered that, too! Is there enough pressure against the dry media, before the oil soaks in, to cause a tear?


I have my doubts a dry filter is a cause for the tears as the majority of the BITOG community prefill their filters before installing.
 
Originally Posted By: sir1900
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech


Makes me wonder how many tear their own dry media with the rev happy lead foot after an oil change.


I have wondered that, too! Is there enough pressure against the dry media, before the oil soaks in, to cause a tear?


I have my doubts a dry filter is a cause for the tears as the majority of the BITOG community prefill their filters before installing.


There is no reason why starting an engine with a dry filter would tear the media. The force on the media would be the same regardless if the filter was full of oil or full of air, because the flow of oil hitting the dry filter media is the same flow rate that would flow through it if the filter was full of oil. Just because there is air instead of oil in the filter when the new oil hits the media doesn't put any additional force or stress on the media.

The delta-p, and therefore the force/stress on the media is a function of the flow volume and viscosity of the fluid going through the media. The leading "wall of oil" flow that hits the dry media is going to flow through the media the same regardless if the media is dry or wet.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The leading "wall of oil" flow that hits the dry media is going to flow through the media the same regardless if the media is dry or wet.


I don't believe this to be true. The question is whether there is enough of a difference to matter.
 
Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The leading "wall of oil" flow that hits the dry media is going to flow through the media the same regardless if the media is dry or wet.


I don't believe this to be true. The question is whether there is enough of a difference to matter.


The real question is whether your belief outweighs science, and how much more the filter media believes your belief or actual fact.

Got some science to back your belief ?
 
In a ideal situation pre-filling a oil filter is a good idea ... But in many vehicles where the oil filter sits sideways or you have to carefully thread the oil filter through a small passageway , around obstructions , etc. I just say install a dry filter and be done with it ... The short ammount of time it takes for a filter to fill with oil after the engine is started should be a non - factor if the previous fill was a decent , modern SN conventional or synthetic oil .
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
In a ideal situation pre-filling a oil filter is a good idea ... But in many vehicles where the oil filter sits sideways or you have to carefully thread the oil filter through a small passageway , around obstructions , etc. I just say install a dry filter and be done with it ...


Why do we have to hash through the SAME NONSENSE every time this issue comes up?

The first time you fill an oil filter, all or almost all of the oil is absorbed by the filter media. Even if the filter goes on upside down you can still pre-fill to some degree.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

W
Not Changing Oil Filter
2 3
Replies
40
Views
4K
GMBoy
BackwoodsAL
Black speck in FL-820S oil filter:
Replies
17
Views
1K
bullwinkle
Nuclear_42
Skipping oil filter change
3 4 5
Replies
90
Views
6K
Snagglefoot
G
So I put a Wix oil filter 51334 on my 2018 tucson base model 2.0L and immediately the check engine light came on.
2
Replies
39
Views
2K
Triple_Se7en
P
Air through oil bypass valve normal?
Replies
8
Views
767
PDRig
Back
Top