Purolator is listening

[DoubleWasp]

Like I said before. The real issue here is not wear, UOA's or engine damage. The issue here is that people paid for a working product, and they got one that is defective.

Any company selling a defective product that refuses to own up to it deserves a solid trashing. That's what keeps them in line. If everybody had a grin-and-bear-it attitude toward defective merchandise, who would even bother making an effective one?

 

[Apollo14]

Yep, and the disgrace is that because the tears are hidden inside the can, Purolator can pretend the problem doesn't exist.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Particularly when they are orange colored glasses.


with black, textured frames?

 

[Kira]

Hello, I'm going for simplicity of "fact" and action.

HISTORY:
1) Members found tears (chatter relevant to damage-upon-disassembly went away quickly so that proves there were tears).
2) Members spread the word and switched to other brands. Maybe the right people in some car parts stores heard the news?
3) Purolater seems finally to have addressed the issue; selectively worded correspondence not withstanding.

ACTION:
4) I think Purolater bought/contracted for a large batch of faulty media.
5) They'd never stand up to their suppliers and now that their supply or contract period is over Purolater will obtain better quality media.
6) How much business they lost or how much bad publicity they got will help determine what course of action will be taken.

SPECULATION:
7) Ain't much going to happen because very few people are on this train.
I'd bet the vast majority of people get their oil changed by others.
An in-store campaign and a little selectively targeted advertising regarding "improved Purolaters" is what we'll see, if anything.
The advertising campaign could tout "new across the board improved filtration media" in all Purolater filters.
Obfuscatory language could include lines like, "all our filters are perfectly suited to synthetic and conventional oils now."
Lying bar stewards. Kira

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: thomasew
They told me not to buy filters by numbers, as some on "social media" do (no mention directly of BITOG).

I've brought it up before, and I'll do it again: What kind of marketing is it to recommend that you purchase less of our product? They don't mind the 3,000 mile thing when it suits their purposes, but in this case, don't stockpile filters? Perhaps Ford and various shops in North America should reconsider their filter purchases. After all, Purolator doesn't think buying a bunch is a good idea.

Don't worry, Purolator cannot compete with my free Hastings filters, aside from paying me to use their product, which I don't see happening.

 

[mcrn]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Like I said before. The real issue here is not wear, UOA's or engine damage. The issue here is that people paid for a working product, and they got one that is defective.

Any company selling a defective product that refuses to own up to it deserves a solid trashing. That's what keeps them in line. If everybody had a grin-and-bear-it attitude toward defective merchandise, who would even bother making an effective one?


I agree. Lets just say we know its not causing extra wear. Why defend a product that is failing?! And I agree its because over 95% of their customers will never be aware that it is even happening. If this was seen from the outside then I am sure Purolators response would be different. Maybe the answer is clear cans?

 

[sprite1741]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Fluid flow increases through paths of least resistance, ie, tears in media (a basic law of fluid dynamics). So there is no doubt there is a diversion of oil towards the tears causing higher relative flow through them.

"Big non-issue" ... that's only one perception point out in the 3 sigma area of the perception distribution curve.


Not only will more oil flow through the hole, but any particles on the outside of the media near the hole will probably be sucked right through.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: sprite1741
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Fluid flow increases through paths of least resistance, ie, tears in media (a basic law of fluid dynamics). So there is no doubt there is a diversion of oil towards the tears causing higher relative flow through them.

"Big non-issue" ... that's only one perception point out in the 3 sigma area of the perception distribution curve.


Not only will more oil flow through the hole, but any particles on the outside of the media near the hole will probably be sucked right through.


Plus, it's possible that some of the media could break away along the tear edge and get swept in to the engine.

The bottom line that torn media is not something people want.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: mcrn
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Like I said before. The real issue here is not wear, UOA's or engine damage. The issue here is that people paid for a working product, and they got one that is defective.

Any company selling a defective product that refuses to own up to it deserves a solid trashing. That's what keeps them in line. If everybody had a grin-and-bear-it attitude toward defective merchandise, who would even bother making an effective one?


I agree. Lets just say we know its not causing extra wear. Why defend a product that is failing?! And I agree its because over 95% of their customers will never be aware that it is even happening. If this was seen from the outside then I am sure Purolators response would be different. Maybe the answer is clear cans?

No we do not know if tears are causing more wear or not. Passing unfiltered oil does cause more wear but whether or not it is measurable or not can not be known without extensive studies using teardowns.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
No we do not know if tears are causing more wear or not. Passing unfiltered oil does cause more wear but whether or not it is measurable or not can not be known without extensive studies using teardowns.

I couldn't agree more. That's why my point has been over the past number of months in this issue is that the filters aren't performing as required. Efficiency is down thanks to a tear, but we don't know how much. And we'll never know how much (or more accurately, how little) this will affect engine longevity.

Nonetheless, when I buy a filter, I expect it to remain intact throughout its service life. Whether it's some 50% efficiency rock catcher or 99.9% efficient at 20 microns, I expect the media to remain intact throughout the OCI.

And again, that's why I'm thankful to all those here who cut open filters. I'm way too messy to get away with that, so I appreciate the efforts of everyone here.

 

[Bookmaker]

Having a tear is like having the bypass valve open. The oil will flow through the path of least resistance.

 

[Dallas69]

Any unfiltered oil will become filtered oil in a matter of a few seconds
Years ago some filters were not full-flow either
Not ideal but not the end of the world
This whole argument is getting real old guys,if people want to use them they will no matter what is said on here

 

[Garak]

I realize that. As I mentioned, I'm not suspecting this is going to cut engine life immensely. My point is that I expect the filter to remain intact. If I don't want full flow filtering, I'll buy an antique.

 

[mr_diy]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I realize that. As I mentioned, I'm not suspecting this is going to cut engine life immensely. My point is that I expect the filter to remain intact. If I don't want full flow filtering, I'll buy an antique.


Do you think Goss made up the engine failure story or the importance of keeping crud out of modern engines?

http://www.motorweek.org/features/goss_garage/oil_filters/

This it worth the chance with a <$5 part?

 

[cb4017]

For me it's simple. I have opened two Purolator filters. They were different part numbers from different vehicles. Both were torn. That's a 100% failure rate. I will never knowingly buy another Purolator filter.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Don't worry, Purolator cannot compete with my free Hastings filters, aside from paying me to use their product, which I don't see happening.


Never say never!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: mr_diy
Do you think Goss made up the engine failure story or the importance of keeping crud out of modern engines?

Of course not. I'm just trying to remain balanced on the Purolator issue. I know darned well that a few tears (okay, probably a lot of tears) won't cause an issue in almost every instance. Heck, vehicles ran without oil filters for a long time, and plenty of small engines still do. That being said, I don't want to be the person who gets zinged by a chunk of media breaking loose. Additionally, as I stated before, I expect the media to remain intact over the OCI, regardless brand or efficiency. If I'm paying for a filter, it's reasonable to expect that the filter hold up for the OEM interval.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HangFire
Never say never!

I suppose it's possible, but if Purolator came out with a wonderful rebate system down the road to get everyone back onboard, you can be darned sure they'd exclude Canada, as do most companies when offering rebates.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: SilverC6

Minor tears with the remainder of the media still functioning.

The pressure loss across the media is not sufficient to force the flow to the tear.

Big non-issue.


Fluid flow increases through paths of least resistance, ie, tears in media (a basic law of fluid dynamics). So there is no doubt there is a diversion of oil towards the tears causing higher relative flow through them.


Had the same fluids class you did.

With the high permeability of the filtration media, flow will tend to the tear but there will not be an inordinate amount of flow there.

Even if we were talking 5% of the flow, and that's a high number, that would still leave 95% of the oil still being filtered.

It's a great application of Darcy's Law using the permeability coefficient for the unfolded area of the filter media and the very small area of the hole flowing unencumbered.

And remember, the oil systems in all modern automobiles are multi-pass systems.

But I agree with others that Purolator needs to address their problems.

But people need to stop ratcheting up the rhetoric and over-reacting to the problem.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Lot's of "ifs" trying to "estimate" the flow diversion, but the bottom line is the larger the tear, the more the flow will want to divert through the tear. The diversion of unfiltered oil should be zero ... no compromises. Trying to downplay the fact the media is torn doesn't make the tear disappear.

It only takes one time something major isn't filtered out for it to possibly do some damage. And who is to say media doesn't tear off the ragged edges and go down into the engine. Tears should never exist in an oil filter ... if they do, it's a failure. People don't want to use products that fail.

So yes, the one statement of yours that makes sense is: "But I agree with others that Purolator needs to address their problems."