BestLine Synthetic Engine Treatment....

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Originally Posted By: dave5358
If I say "your product is snake oil but my product is 'fully formulated', do you know any more about the products? Well, other than I like my product and dislike yours? It's just a form of name calling - nothing more. And, it provides no useful information about the products.

However, what I'd consider to be a fully formulated product tends to meet actual industry accepted tests and have approvals. As for the PQIA, I've been through this in another thread recently, and several times over the last few years. The PQIA isn't out there to determine which oil is better than another. They cannot determine base stocks, let alone any of the newer additives, with which guys like Mola are much more familiar. The PQIA tests are there to determine whether a product meets the claimed API service categories and labeled viscosity. Even in that regard, they don't run everything involved to get API or ILSAC certification. They don't even test for HTHS.

Some products intentionally avoid moly. Cost may be a concern. They are more likely using different friction modifiers. Maybe the chief chemist wants to use it in his motorcycle, too, which still having the appropriate SN/GF-5 certification for mass consumption. As I already said, moly is only one class of friction modifier, and the PPM tells one little. I might be able to guess that a company is using trimer moly, but I have no idea. I certainly have no idea what other friction modifiers may be present that don't show up in a cheap VOA.

Fully synthetic is of course, these days, a marketing term. It doesn't matter. Even in Germany, where the definition is supposedly important, companies just invent new words, muddying the waters. I prefer the old style rigorous definitions, but just because something is PAO based, for instance, doesn't mean it's superior under all circumstances, or even any circumstances.

As for companies and snake oil, while I have used a lot of Quaker State, one still has to choose carefully. Quaker State Ultimate Durability is (in the appropriate viscosities) an SN/GF-5 oil. So is Lucas Synthetic 5w-30. In most applications, they'd be absolutely interchangeable. If you changed my oil and didn't tell me which was in there, I would never know, nor would my engine care.

However, I won't use Slick 50, no matter who manufacturers it, and the same goes for Lucas Oil Stabilizer. Neither have any certification, much less endorsements from manufacturers. My G37 allows for SM/GF-4 5w-30 or better. So, QSUD 5w-30 and Lucas Synthetic 5w-30 would be just fine. Also, some manufacturers have relationships with Quaker State (and others, of course), for factory fills and service fills. I don't know of any owner's manual or shop manual that calls for Slick 50 or LOS. QSUD is also dexos1 certified. I don't know of any dexos1 certified Slick 50 or LOS.

What's "in" Bestline Engine Treatment is irrelevant to me. Unless it's actually relabeled Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 (and at a lower price point), it's not going into my G37's crankcase right now. Unless it's relabeled RP 0w-40, it's not going in my snowblower, either.

I have no idea what's in the stuff, and I can't think of any ingredients my oil needs, since I don't know what's "in" them right now, much less what could even remotely be lacking. When my soup isn't salty enough for my taste, I add salt. I don't make the soup first, decline to taste test it, then put a blindfold on and grab something randomly from the spice rack and dump it in willy nilly. Do you? I wouldn't decide, either, that I know more than a chef about ingredients. For instance, should I just decide to add mustard powder to cherry Jell-o, simply because it's missing from the original formulation?

Stregone: Of course oil companies have the objective to make money. They wouldn't be providing gas or motor oil for very long without profitability. In any case, that's why there are standards, including API service category, ILSAC classification, ACEA specifications, and builder approvals. If you want oils that meet none of these standards and are just garbage ingredients designed to make money without any regard for the customer whatsoever (or the company's "good" name), there are such products. Check the PQIA blacklisted products for more information.
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: Stregone
The objective of oil companies (or any company) is to make money, not give you the best product possible. I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with. If you want something even better (even though it is overkill and completely unnecessary, which I don't think is out of line for such a specific enthusiast forum like this), you probably can't buy it.

+1. I couldn't have said it better.


You have the ability to say it better. This does not fit your view. The additive companies are playing the junior varsity field compared to the blenders that blend their products and are regulated to meet certifications. Additive companies just have to market a product that does no harm.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Additive companies just have to market a product that does no harm.

Or, worse yet, that they can rig up enough smoke and mirrors around it to obfuscate the issue.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
You have the ability to say it better. This does not fit your view.

My view?

Originally Posted By: dave1251
The additive companies are playing the junior varsity field compared to the blenders that blend their products and are regulated to meet certifications. Additive companies just have to market a product that does no harm.

Maybe not so JV. Additives are a mega-bucks industry. The makers don't even have to market a product that does no harm. Arguably, many of the PTFE-based additives were harmful, but so what? That hasn't slowed the marketing of PTFE-additives. Or, what about additives with copper or lead particles in the mix (Friction Free 3000)? These are particles in the 5-micron size range, with the potential to do mischief. Large players who should know better (Quaker State, Ashland Oil) have (or had) PTFE-based additives on the market. Profits is their only objective.
 
I just use MMO 500 miles or so b4 I change the oil.... and I look at the oil and it will be brown ** NOT BLACK **

after adding Marvel Mystery Oil and run about 300 miles or 500 miles when I go to change my oil its much much darker .. first time I used it the oil was BLACK....

Other them MMO thats all I use.....

I really dont think all the bearing tests having anything to do with actual engine wear.. IMO.
 
Just as the color probably doesn't mean anything either.

Originally Posted By: David1
I just use MMO 500 miles or so b4 I change the oil.... and I look at the oil and it will be brown ** NOT BLACK **

after adding Marvel Mystery Oil and run about 300 miles or 500 miles when I go to change my oil its much much darker .. first time I used it the oil was BLACK....

Other them MMO thats all I use.....

I really dont think all the bearing tests having anything to do with actual engine wear.. IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The subject of Bestline has been beaten to death here at BITOG.

Please, use the "search" function near the top of the page.


I did a search and nothing comes up. Has it been beaten to death and buried for good?

Trying to find any updated info on this product.
 
Originally Posted By: Riqrat
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The subject of Bestline has been beaten to death here at BITOG.

Please, use the "search" function near the top of the page.


I did a search and nothing comes up. Has it been beaten to death and buried for good?

Trying to find any updated info on this product.



Onejack is wrong. I've never seen this additive discussed ever in the 5 or 6 years I've been here.

Let me apologize for his complete and utter ignorance. Around here we hVe lots of additive experts with no experience with a product. Yet they think they know.
Sorry I can't help. I haven't ever heard of the stuff.
Good luck in your search.
 
Originally Posted By: John_Conrad
there seems to be some decent information on the product in the msds, although it may not contain all of the ingredients. here is the linky:

http://bestlinelubricants.com/pdffolder/MSDA Engine Treatment.pdf

i came here to learn and hope this adds something to continue the discussion-one way or the other.


So what do all those things in the MSDS do, why do I need them, do they do anything "good", and are they at any sort of concentration level to make a difference?

My favorite line is "Green colored liquid resembling motor oil."
 
that is the $64,000 question. and one that i obviously don't know for sure as i am not trained in this field.

now that having been said, i did a quick search(as i am trying to learn) on Isodewaxed Group II and read this article

http://read.dmtmag.com/i/102398-gps-demo/35

so it appears to me that most of the BestLine Synthetic Engine Treatment is that base II and other base oils, now if we could only find out what the "Proprietary Additives" are.

the castrol article states that "group II stocks show little, if any, performance enhancements over other highly saturated groupII stocks" of which i'm not sure what that means, but hope the good folks here can explain and sort out.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with.


The reality is, they make the best product they can to meet industry specifications, and charge as much as the market will bear, over and above their costs for components, capital equipment, logistics, R&D, marketing, etc.
+1
 
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: Stregone
Just playing devils advocate here: The objective of oil companies (or any company) is to make money, not give you the best product possible. I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with. If you want something even better (even though it is overkill and completely unnecessary, which I don't think is out of line for such a specific enthusiast forum like this), you probably can't buy it.


You mean we live in a world of capitalism (greed) and free markets (competition)?
Show us a "world" where that doesn't happen. Fidel Castro is worth almost ONE BILLION. Running a socialist country is a good gig for the bosses.
 
Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
Have any of you BITOG'ers used this product?

Would like to hear your opinion of it.....and if you would use it again.

Its been my belief that you should NEVER add anything to a quality oil (Like M-1), because it has all the additives necessary to properly lubricate your engine.

Agree or disagree with the above statement?
Anyone going to bite for the troll?
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
What is in Bestline ngine Treatment that is not in formulated engine oils?

What is in Bestline Engine Treatment... period? Now that would be useful information.

As for "formulated engine oil", that means just about anything, or more likely means nothing. If a reader runs his finger across the VOA analysis of popular synthetic oils Petroleum Quality Institute, you can find just about any formulation imaginable. Are all of these "fully formulated" or "partially formulated" or what?

For example, Castrol Edge has 1462ppm of magnesium, Mobil-1 is 772ppm and no other brand tested has more than 20ppm (and most are in the 'single digits'). Maybe Castrol and Mobil got a good price on magnesium at an additive close-out sale? But Mobil should have bought more... because they ran out when they made Mobil Super Synthetic... it's down to 10ppm.

Molybdenum? Schaeffer's Supreme wins the prize at 309ppm, Eneos comes in second at 171ppm and everybody else is an also-ran, typically below 80ppm.

Sodium (which makes for a really spectacular lab demo) is very popular in Valvoline Synpower, Lukoil, Schaeffer's Supreme, Lukas, Royal Purple, Auto Extra and NAPA, and virtually non-existent in any other brands. A partial explanation of this might be that NAPA and Auto Extra (maybe some others) simply buy their oil from some another company. I've never even heard of some of the brands tested, so who knows?

Don't like synthetics? How about 5w-20 oils tested by PQIA? Penzoil and Chevron win the prize for Molybdenum - everybody else is an also-ran. But Kendall discovered Titanium - uniquely so among all the 5w-20's or synthetics, above - no one uses it. Magnesium is clearly out of fashion - not much more than a trace element anywhere.

Conclusion? About the only conclusion is that all the tribologists placed end-to-end would not reach a conclusion. Terms like "fully formulated" sound great as they roll off the tongue but mean nothing. Maybe it's the scientific way of saying "big oil will take care of you".
I saw a marine band VHF radio recently advertised as having 25 "FULL" watts. I wonder what an "empty" watt is.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I saw a marine band VHF radio recently advertised as having 25 "FULL" watts. I wonder what an "empty" watt is.


Or a bunch of half-watts
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I saw a marine band VHF radio recently advertised as having 25 "FULL" watts. I wonder what an "empty" watt is.


Power ratings for amplifiers can be a bit tricky. There are different ways to rate things like "peak power," "RMS power," "input power," "output power," etc. One brand's 25 watts won't necessarily be the same as another brand's.
 
Any good additive worth it's salt should improve whatever the buyer has decided to use it in. If it won't, I'd be hard pressed to buy it in the first place.

Anywhere... Turbines, Automatic Transmissions, Hydraulic Systems,
Compressors, Internal Combustion Engines, gun oil, etc., etc., you name it.

IF the product will not reduce operating temps and reduce loads
(which are all easily measured by one method or another,)
that product should be avoided.

Good additives are now costing so much to produce producers have become narrow sighted with their customer base and finding these products has become difficult.

If you find issue using a single product, there is a problem.
It is not a Lubricant Enhancer unless it will do the job in all applications.
Having a box full of additives designed with specific purpose is not going to result with a positive outcome.

In a car (or anything else), can you put the SAME product in the AC compressor, Power Steering, Engine, Transmission (auto or manual) and Diff?
If not, you DO NOT have a Lubricant Enhancer that will improve the function and life of whatever systems are being treated and you are wasting your hard earned money on something that is smoke & mirrors. pc
 
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