Knee issues from bike riding?

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Originally Posted By: Cujet
Avid cyclist here!

Here is what happened to me. No problems for years. Then suddenly, I started having swelling and severe pain, it hurt to walk. Advil was suddenly my friend.

Doc said "repetitive motion injury", basically, I've worn myself out. My knees (both) my right hip and both ankles are simply worn out. It took about 40,000 miles of pedaling to create this damage. I can no longer ride any significant distance. As it aggravates my knees.

I now go to the gym almost daily. But I cannot do much with my legs. Squats and leg machines are stunningly irritating to my knees.

Please, Please, Please, don't think that serious cycling is completely knee safe. It's not. Many, correction, ALL of my fellow riders are discovering the same thing. Cycling is simply lower impact on knees. But it does cause wear and tear. And by the time you get 40,000 miles under your belt, you are worn out.



Cujet, I don't won't to dismiss your experience--it is what it is, after all. But there's no hard and fast rule here. I have well more than 3 times that amount of mileage under my belt, and my knees are mostly fine (I have a completely torn ACL and particularly torn meniscus, neither from cycling). I know master's guys in their 50's who are still racing competitively and are around 1/2 a million lifetime miles, without knee problems.

I imagine that by "worn out", the doc is referring to cartilage that's degenerated. I imagine that there's a congenital component to you own injury, because it's definitely not universal.
 
^^^Yes, I know masters racers in their 60s, who have been racing since they were 5 year old 'midgets' (a racing class which does not even exist anymore!), whose knees are just fime.

I cannot even begin to fathom the mileage they've racked up in their lifetimes, let alone some of the 'aged' (Jens Voight, George Hincapie, etc.) Euro pros.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Life wears you out.

If you do nothing, you'll probably be in pretty good shape when you die.


lol My MIL must of picked up that motto at one time.. yeah doesn't exactly work that way!
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Avid cyclist here!

Here is what happened to me. No problems for years. Then suddenly, I started having swelling and severe pain, it hurt to walk. Advil was suddenly my friend.

Doc said "repetitive motion injury", basically, I've worn myself out. My knees (both) my right hip and both ankles are simply worn out. It took about 40,000 miles of pedaling to create this damage. I can no longer ride any significant distance. As it aggravates my knees.

I now go to the gym almost daily. But I cannot do much with my legs. Squats and leg machines are stunningly irritating to my knees.

Please, Please, Please, don't think that serious cycling is completely knee safe. It's not. Many, correction, ALL of my fellow riders are discovering the same thing. Cycling is simply lower impact on knees. But it does cause wear and tear. And by the time you get 40,000 miles under your belt, you are worn out.



Cujet, I don't won't to dismiss your experience--it is what it is, after all. But there's no hard and fast rule here. I have well more than 3 times that amount of mileage under my belt, and my knees are mostly fine (I have a completely torn ACL and particularly torn meniscus, neither from cycling). I know master's guys in their 50's who are still racing competitively and are around 1/2 a million lifetime miles, without knee problems.

I imagine that by "worn out", the doc is referring to cartilage that's degenerated. I imagine that there's a congenital component to you own injury, because it's definitely not universal.


Sure, everybody is different. Time takes a toll, as does weight, diet and certainly genetics/disease affect joint lifespan.

However, as I mentioned, I'm not alone in this regard. Many older cyclists are finding out they have "worn out" their knees, ankles and hips. As I mentioned, the folks I've ridden with are universally experiencing the same thing.

Just like runners, the repetitive motion creates wear. Runners have the additional impact aspect that increases the degradation. And, some runners make it to 80 years old without knee problems. Most serious runners don't get that far before significant problems set in.

I don't know of any objective data concerning athletes and joint wear rates. However, I'm 100% certain it could be quantified and graphed. I'm reasonably confident the graph would be a typical bell curve, with a few people having early joint problems, most people will be centered around lasting a certain number of repetitions, and a few who last a lifetime without problems of any sort.

I'm also confident I'm in the middle of the group. Plenty of miles under my belt, but I've worn myself out.
 
I think the key is moderation and listening to your body for most people. I'd still like to mtb race semi-competitively but I don't like how my knees feel after a hard ride, and to get into race shape, there would be a lot of hard rides... So I don't and my knees feel pretty good after most reasonable exercise, and that's a good thing to keep going.
 
I use kneesavers on my bike, I'm a big person (6'7" 260ish) and the pedals are too narrow for my natural knee track. They have worked wonders for me, I highly recommend them.

http://www.kneesaver.net/

There are cheap equivalents on Amazon but I find they rust more easily. Nevertheless, I do have them on my less frequently ridden bikes.
 
I have had problems on and off with knee problems for >20yrs. Went I went to a physio in the 90's (from pain from bike training) he said it was patellofemoral syndrome, the patella does not track through the top of femur properly.

And he indicated that my inside leg (vastus medialis) and glutes were weak. Rx has been stretching quads and IT band, and strengthening glutes and inner thigh. Most recently I have been doing this through lunges with bar weight on shoulders.

But the biggest help was rest.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Avid cyclist here!

Here is what happened to me. No problems for years. Then suddenly, I started having swelling and severe pain, it hurt to walk. Advil was suddenly my friend.

Doc said "repetitive motion injury", basically, I've worn myself out. My knees (both) my right hip and both ankles are simply worn out. It took about 40,000 miles of pedaling to create this damage. I can no longer ride any significant distance. As it aggravates my knees.

I now go to the gym almost daily. But I cannot do much with my legs. Squats and leg machines are stunningly irritating to my knees.

Please, Please, Please, don't think that serious cycling is completely knee safe. It's not. Many, correction, ALL of my fellow riders are discovering the same thing. Cycling is simply lower impact on knees. But it does cause wear and tear. And by the time you get 40,000 miles under your belt, you are worn out.

Thanks for telling your story ... I had a friend in his 70's who has said that body parts (joints et al) have a life. I've ridden on / off for ~40yrs, some of that time a lot. Although I doubt I've done anywhere near 40K miles.
crazy2.gif


It's hard to find the balance though - a sedentary life causes troubles as does exercising excess.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieBoy
Try taking a daily dose of a quality calcium & glucosamine supplement to give your body the tools it needs to rebuild your knees while you sleep. I also take curcumin (from turmeric) to help combat inflammation. Much easier on your body than Ib. You'll notice a big difference in a few weeks.
Try hyaluronic acid,it works wonders on my daughters performance horses. [Glucos] amine is a sugar and there are questions of its efficacy. I have been taking curcumin for about 10 years on a regular basis H hope it is as good as reported.
 
Back in 1998, my right knee began clicking after about 1/4 mile of biking, After 1/2 mile it would really start hurting and I'd have to walk the bike, or stand up and pedal.

I tried everything, but ultimately gave up biking.

It is still the same now when I seldom ride a bike. After a certain distance, the knee starts clicking every revolution, and I have to get off the seat to keep riding click/pain free.

Surprisingly I can still ride a long crusier softwheeled skateboard, as long as I stretch my quads well before starting. Those small 'tricks are for kids' skateboards likely contributed to my knee issues.

I miss the leg strength I once had from biking lots. I notice its loss when surfing. Getting old is not fun on the joints, and it gets harder and harder to stay in decent shape because of chronic joint pain in the knees.

One needs to find things which do not aggravate the condition, which is not so easy, or as rewarding as something like Biking through Nature.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: StevieBoy
Try taking a daily dose of a quality calcium & glucosamine supplement to give your body the tools it needs to rebuild your knees while you sleep. I also take curcumin (from turmeric) to help combat inflammation. Much easier on your body than Ib. You'll notice a big difference in a few weeks.
Try hyaluronic acid,it works wonders on my daughters performance horses. [Glucos] amine is a sugar and there are questions of its efficacy. I have been taking curcumin for about 10 years on a regular basis H hope it is as good as reported.


I don't remember if it was glucosamine, or chondroitin, but one of them (or both together??) were considered a REALLY BAD THING for those with ANY form of prostate cancer, as they 'fed' the cancer cells almost as much as pure testosterone.

This was right from the doctors, and nutrition people in my Us Too prostate cancer group, which I attended while undergoing intense beam radiation treatments for Stage 1 cancer.
 
Few questions
1. Have you checked your bike fitting? How do you stay on bike, position, weight distributions and pressure
2. What is your cadence – Typical mistake for beginners – they push the pedals hard at low cadence. While pros are doing that around 90..110 rpm. I’m advance amateur and at low intensity my cadence is 60…70 mid intensity 70…85 intencity around my FTP 90..100rpm sprint 110..120rpm.
Remember Power = Force * Velocity
 
Originally Posted By: miro
While pros are doing that around 90..110 rpm.


The "pros" can turn that cadence in a HUGE 54x12 gear, one of the reasons they can ride at 35+ MPH even against the clock!
eek.gif
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: miro
While pros are doing that around 90..110 rpm.


The "pros" can turn that cadence in a HUGE 54x12 gear, one of the reasons they can ride at 35+ MPH even against the clock!
eek.gif
wink.gif


On the other side they use 39x32 also
eek.gif

I think that my question was clear - What is your cadence?
 
Originally Posted By: miro
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: miro
While pros are doing that around 90..110 rpm.


The "pros" can turn that cadence in a HUGE 54x12 gear, one of the reasons they can ride at 35+ MPH even against the clock!
eek.gif
wink.gif


On the other side they use 39x32 also
eek.gif

I think that my question was clear - What is your cadence?


Yes, up some of your country's (and Belgium's) more impossible 'Murs', and also on some of the grand tour "walls", of course.
(Some of the pure sprinters might even have lower yet gearing fitted so that they can get up some of those 15 KM+ climbs on the grand tours when they "crack".)

And maybe in VERY early season training.

But, take it easy, as I was NOT attacking you for anything you stated, just clarifying, and showing admiration for the unbelievable strength of even an 'average' Pro Tour rider.
wink.gif


BTW; I try to always maintain a 90+ RPM cadence, but of course this is in 'baby gears' with my advanced age.
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
All good advice here.. seat height and cadence are your problems if you're having knee pain. Started riding to work 4 years ago but had to stop due to knee pain. Got another bike and read everything on adjustment and must of got it right.. over 600 miles since I started riding in June.. didn't even get 200 miles last time.


Interesting still no knee pain at 1700 miles.. hoping to hit 2000 miles this year. So overall I'd have 3000 miles at the least on my knee's.. I'll let everyone know if my knee's wear out at 40k.
 
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith

Interesting still no knee pain at 1700 miles.. hoping to hit 2000 miles this year. So overall I'd have 3000 miles at the least on my knee's.. I'll let everyone know if my knee's wear out at 40k.

Actually the human body is wonder. The more you move the more lubricant is produced. Unfortunately we /me too/ move not too much. As result we produce less lubricant. On top of it the most of us/me too/ weight more
 
Originally Posted By: dailydriver


BTW; I try to always maintain a 90+ RPM cadence, but of course this is in 'baby gears' with my advanced age.
frown.gif


I fully agree with you about professional cyclist.
I’m just normal human living the modern western life 186cm 88kg. it is far away from pros 55…67kg  The last years I made 12….15,000km/year. At my childhood I cycled a lot and I had some knee problems. Nowadays not. One of the beginner mistake is cycle at low cadence and push pedals hard. At end of 80’s and begin90s the British cyclist Chriss Bordman paved the way of new higher cadence. He start to talk about perceived and real power. Our perception for power is when you push pedals hard. I know that higher cadence is not in our nature, you have to learn to coordinate your legs and it will not happen in one day training. I have started from 60..65rpm next year I was in 70.75rpm etc… Actually the optimal cadence is dependent at your intensity. If I take it easy I also use lower cadence 60..65rpm
 
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^^^It's not just height to weight to LOW BMI that differentiates us from the pros, but also their stellar Max VO2 uptakes (from hopefully naturally, and altitude training effect high hematocrit levels, and NOT artificial EPO ingestion) and superhuman wattage outputs.
 
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