Purolator PL14459 1998 Civic D16Y7 11k TORN!

[jk_636]

Im sorry to see this, its never fun (for me at least) to see a torn filter. Were the rest of the Pureones you plan on using made in 2013 as well? If they are and you plan on sticking with the pureones, I would say to pull them and put a 2014 production filter on it and see how it fairs. Thanks for the cut and post!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I wonder what causes 1 vs 4?

Large V-spread in all 4 locations.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Apollo14

I think the V space has always been there so if the filter tears, it is because of any of these alone or in combination:

1) Brittle media
2) Potting / glue that is too firm and which means that oil pressure against the pleat causes a tear at the point where the pleat can't flex any more
3) Running too long

Sure, if they didn't have a V, they might not have any problems. But I think it's always been there and other parts of the design means it didn't tear as much as it has been.


Yes, I think it's a definite combination of large V-spread and brittle and easily torn media.

I don't see 2) above as a real factor, because the end of the pleat where it's potted to the end cap can't move if potted correctly. And yes the pleat always tears right at the point where it can start flexing. We never see the pleat tear in the middle of the pleat, it's always at the end where the line between flex and no-flex exists.

I don't think 3) is much of a factor either, as we have seen many failures at 3K or below, and one even at 400-ish miles. But I will say that it is a weak factor that could push the "large V-spread plus weak media combo" over the edge to "tearsville".

 

[tommygunn]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Has anyone found a Purolator with more than 1 tear?


This filter that's the subject of this thread has two tears! And so does the other PL14459 I recently posted here

One on each end for both filters.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
tommygunn - that photo was taken with my now ~10 year old Fuji E550. I've taken about 10K photos with it since it was new - she's still tickin'.

I took these photos with a Canon XTI from 2008! The stock EFS 18-55 that came with it.

 

[telecat]

It's not an 11,000 mile filter. You didn't use it correctly, do you are to blame for the tearing.

 

[telecat]

Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Much more V-spread on the torn pleat next to the seam compared to the pleat on the other side of the seam. As pleat V-spread increases, tearing becomes more likely. This aspect is seen on every torn Purolator reported.


Freeze frame this video at 3:10 to see how the v spread gets created (although this is for Fram).

It seems that it's maybe unavoidable to have that v in which case there must be a specification for the media which prevents it tearing in that place. So the fix may well end up being stronger media and making sure you don't run these too long.


Oh no! A $3 P-Classic should last two million miles, don'tcha know, using Vernors Ginger Ale for oil!

 

[tommygunn]

Originally Posted By: telecat
It's not an 11,000 mile filter. You didn't use it correctly, do you are to blame for the tearing.


I've used a P1 for 10k before, in this very same car, in fact, and it was on it for the OCI that just preceded this ripper. Check it out, from less than a year ago, in fact.

go here

The tears are said to happen almost immediately upon being put in service, within the first 1000 miles of use. So whether I ran it to 3k, 10k, 11k, or 25k, it wouldn't matter in terms of the torn media. There are a fair number of 3k filters with tears.

Next time (after the new one I put in is done), I'm definitely using the Synthetic, which doesn't tear, or a Wix product now that I discovered filter1.com (or if Napa has a sale, that'll work too)


Originally Posted By: JerryBob
Wait, you're willing to run another Purolator because you like the textured grip? Am I reading this right?


Well that, and also the price. I got it for 72c.

 

[crazyoildude]

WOW this used to be my favorite filter but we stopped using them when this tear issue came to life. It is so bad even my distributor knows about it and says he hears it all the time!!
I knew their quality went from good to bad quick but it seems they are at the bottom of the barrel now.. We are using a chinese filter now at the shop that my distributor pushes and it is heavier and when we opened a couple randomly they seemed to be built very well. I don't like using things that are not made here but our newly rebuilt engines depend on a decent filter. We still use some oem but nothing made by purolater except for the motorcraft because we have a ton of the 820-s and a few others. Does anyone know if the motorcrafts tear? I cut a couple open but they looked ok.

 

[tommygunn]

@crazyoildude, yes, there are some torn Motorcrafts out there.

Apollo14 even mentioned a torn 820s in this very thread.

The only Purolators that are immune are the Synthetic, and the Bosch D+

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Has anyone found a Purolator with more than 1 tear?


This filter that's the subject of this thread has two tears! And so does the other PL14459 I recently posted here

One on each end for both filters.

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
tommygunn - that photo was taken with my now ~10 year old Fuji E550. I've taken about 10K photos with it since it was new - she's still tickin'.

I took these photos with a Canon XTI from 2008! The stock EFS 18-55 that came with it.


I just look at the photos, production date and usage anymore. My bad

I see now that you posted both tear photos.. I just assumed the second tear photo was a better angle of the first.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I'm about ready to take the P1 out of one of our trucks and replace it with a Fram.

Good move...

Fram Tough Gaurd or better yet FRAM ULTRA.

FRAM ULTRA you can use for 2 OCI

Or if you have a FORD I would use Motorcraft....

what kind of truck do you have?

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn

The tears are said to happen almost immediately upon being put in service, within the first 1000 miles of use. .


A lot of things are "said." We still have a pretty small sample size- I think its clear that there's a tearing problem with the sample size we have and its repeatable enough to support the hypothesis that its the wide pleat, but I just looked at the spreadsheet and there are VERY few removed at low mileage- not enough sample size to say 'oh, well sure. All these are tearing early on.' It would be just as easy to say 'these were all installed torn.'

I'm very tempted to buy a few of the most commonly failed type and cut them open new- a sort of VFA (virgin filter analysis) and see if I can catch one that's torn BEFORE use. Just out of sheer curiosity.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think they tear pretty early in use if they have the right "combo of factors" for a tear to occur. One sample in Stu_Rock's spreadsheet of reported failures was torn with only 400 some miles on it. If people only ran the filters for 500 miles and cut them open, you'd probably see more instances of tears at very low mileage. IMO, 3K miles is low mileage in a clean engine. I also think you will never find one torn before the filter is put into use.

 

[tommygunn]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum


I'm very tempted to buy a few of the most commonly failed type and cut them open new- a sort of VFA (virgin filter analysis) and see if I can catch one that's torn BEFORE use. Just out of sheer curiosity.



That would be the Honda filters, 14459 and 14610, the two types that suffer the most.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: tommygunn

The tears are said to happen almost immediately upon being put in service, within the first 1000 miles of use. .

A lot of things are "said." We still have a pretty small sample size- I think its clear that there's a tearing problem with the sample size we have and its repeatable enough to support the hypothesis that its the wide pleat, but I just looked at the spreadsheet and there are VERY few removed at low mileage- not enough sample size to say 'oh, well sure. All these are tearing early on.' It would be just as easy to say 'these were all installed torn.'

I'm very tempted to buy a few of the most commonly failed type and cut them open new- a sort of VFA (virgin filter analysis) and see if I can catch one that's torn BEFORE use. Just out of sheer curiosity.


As long as the filter is used at the auto manufacturer's recommended OCI it really doesn't matter. They have zero excuse to tear. I pay money for a filter. I don't pay money for a filter with 4 holes in it. Based on their response to some members on here writing this company off for the near future is my path forward.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: tommygunn

The tears are said to happen almost immediately upon being put in service, within the first 1000 miles of use. .


A lot of things are "said." We still have a pretty small sample size- I think its clear that there's a tearing problem with the sample size we have and its repeatable enough to support the hypothesis that its the wide pleat, but I just looked at the spreadsheet and there are VERY few removed at low mileage- not enough sample size to say 'oh, well sure. All these are tearing early on.' It would be just as easy to say 'these were all installed torn.'

I'm very tempted to buy a few of the most commonly failed type and cut them open new- a sort of VFA (virgin filter analysis) and see if I can catch one that's torn BEFORE use. Just out of sheer curiosity.



THANK YOU. I have been trying to get this point across as well!

 

[mr_diy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Apollo14

I think the V space has always been there so if the filter tears, it is because of any of these alone or in combination:

1) Brittle media
2) Potting / glue that is too firm and which means that oil pressure against the pleat causes a tear at the point where the pleat can't flex any more
3) Running too long

Sure, if they didn't have a V, they might not have any problems. But I think it's always been there and other parts of the design means it didn't tear as much as it has been.


Yes, I think it's a definite combination of large V-spread and brittle and easily torn media.

I don't see 2) above as a real factor, because the end of the pleat where it's potted to the end cap can't move if potted correctly. And yes the pleat always tears right at the point where it can start flexing. We never see the pleat tear in the middle of the pleat, it's always at the end where the line between flex and no-flex exists.

I don't think 3) is much of a factor either, as we have seen many failures at 3K or below, and one even at 400-ish miles. But I will say that it is a weak factor that could push the "large V-spread plus weak media combo" over the edge to "tearsville".


I would not rule out the apparent wavy pleats being a factor. My PL10241's since the change from the string model, have all had pleats like this 14459, where the deformed pleats appear to apply extra force at the glue point where the media shows break down (nearly torn).

My PL14610's from my prior 2007 Civic, all had straight pleats and no sign of break down at OCI's up to 8500. I plan to continue to use up my stock of 610's in my new 2013, though the first OCI will be the free dealer one.

The Honda branded OEM filter has excellent pleat straightness and spacing even at the media seam. Also filter manufacturers know how to make cartridge filters with near perfect pleats and could apply this method to the problem canister filters lines. Likely Purolator will not invest in tooling changes for filter models that are declining in volume.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: tommygunn
@crazyoildude, yes, there are some torn Motorcrafts out there.

Apollo14 even mentioned a torn 820s in this very thread.

The only Purolators that are immune are the Synthetic, and the Bosch D+


There's not a single report of a 3xxxx series torn in the spreadsheet. I've opened up a LOT of PL30001s since this started and not only are they not torn, they look much more uniformly pleated than the little filters. Whatever's going on, its worse with the small filters, which does make me wonder if the failure starts when the media is stretched and crimped during assembly.

 

[crazyoildude]

Bad Filters Period !!!!

 

[MetalSlug]

this is the end of purolator for me also, cheapeast filter I run is microguard .