I use Castrol Syntec 5w-30 in my 2010 Tacoma, and 0w-20 in my wifes 2014 CRV. Any advantage using the Toyota oil? I change every 5-6k miles w/premuim filter.
Toyota 0w 20 in a 2014 Honda DI engine
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Where did you find TGMO MSDS?
Go to Google, and type in
"TGMO MSDS"
Yes, but where is the MSDS that states it's pure Group3?
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Where did you find TGMO MSDS?
Go to Google, and type in
"TGMO MSDS"
Yes, but where is the MSDS that states it's pure Group3?
Originally Posted By: subaroo
when did Honda go to d.i.?
On the Accord 2013.
when did Honda go to d.i.?
On the Accord 2013.
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Where did you find TGMO MSDS?
Go to Google, and type in
"TGMO MSDS"
Yes, but where is the MSDS that states it's pure Group3?
Section 3 of the MSDS refers to composition. TGMO is almost all "severely hydrocracked....high paraffinic...", meaning its source is crude oil. For Mobil1 AFE and EP 0w/20, 30-70% is "1-Decene homopolymner....", which is a form of PAO.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Where did you find TGMO MSDS?
Go to Google, and type in
"TGMO MSDS"
Yes, but where is the MSDS that states it's pure Group3?
Section 3 of the MSDS refers to composition. TGMO is almost all "severely hydrocracked....high paraffinic...", meaning its source is crude oil. For Mobil1 AFE and EP 0w/20, 30-70% is "1-Decene homopolymner....", which is a form of PAO.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Danh
Toyota is not yet big on DI engines, at least not to the extent of Honda. Whether TGMO is optimized for DI engines (low Noack, etc.) is unknown.
2) TGMO has a good reputation here, but we can now see its composition from the MSDS on Mobil's website. Here's a big difference: TGMO is a classic Group III synthetic, with severely hydrotreated crude oil as a base. On the other hand, Mobil1 AFE 0w-20 is 30-40% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0w-20 is 60-70% PAO. I realize base oil isn't the whole package, but based on this I'm not sure TGMO quite deserves its status here. Compared to Mobil1 alternatives, at least.
Firstly the CoP made Honda 0W-20 is GP III based and I haven't heard of any deposit issues running a GF-5 0W-20 of any brand.
If one is concerned about intake tract deposits in DI engines it's not Noack one should be looking at but rather a low TEOST deposit score would be more relevant.
I haven't read anywhere that M1 EP 0W-20 is optimized for DI applications in fact I would think AFE would be a better choice between the two oils if the high TEOST deposit level of M1 EP 5W-30 is anything to go by.
I agree Mobil hasn't claimed either product is optimized for DI engines. But the Mobil1 EP 0w/20s seems pretty different from its 5w/30 counterpart, being 60-70% PAO compared to 20-30%. So the TEOST comparison may not be particularly useful. Of course, more disclosure by Mobil would make all this speculation unnecessary. But for my money if 0w-20 is what you need, Mobil1 EP sure seems like a good choice.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Toyota is not yet big on DI engines, at least not to the extent of Honda. Whether TGMO is optimized for DI engines (low Noack, etc.) is unknown.
2) TGMO has a good reputation here, but we can now see its composition from the MSDS on Mobil's website. Here's a big difference: TGMO is a classic Group III synthetic, with severely hydrotreated crude oil as a base. On the other hand, Mobil1 AFE 0w-20 is 30-40% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0w-20 is 60-70% PAO. I realize base oil isn't the whole package, but based on this I'm not sure TGMO quite deserves its status here. Compared to Mobil1 alternatives, at least.
Firstly the CoP made Honda 0W-20 is GP III based and I haven't heard of any deposit issues running a GF-5 0W-20 of any brand.
If one is concerned about intake tract deposits in DI engines it's not Noack one should be looking at but rather a low TEOST deposit score would be more relevant.
I haven't read anywhere that M1 EP 0W-20 is optimized for DI applications in fact I would think AFE would be a better choice between the two oils if the high TEOST deposit level of M1 EP 5W-30 is anything to go by.
I agree Mobil hasn't claimed either product is optimized for DI engines. But the Mobil1 EP 0w/20s seems pretty different from its 5w/30 counterpart, being 60-70% PAO compared to 20-30%. So the TEOST comparison may not be particularly useful. Of course, more disclosure by Mobil would make all this speculation unnecessary. But for my money if 0w-20 is what you need, Mobil1 EP sure seems like a good choice.
Thanks to all of you for the responses , and food for thought....gotta love it
I'd use Mobil 1 0W20. If you get a little fuel dilution the Mobil 1 is a little "thicker." That's something I'd want if fuel dilution, sometimes associated with DI was something I had to deal with. Opinions vary.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Danh
Toyota is not yet big on DI engines, at least not to the extent of Honda. Whether TGMO is optimized for DI engines (low Noack, etc.) is unknown.
2) TGMO has a good reputation here, but we can now see its composition from the MSDS on Mobil's website. Here's a big difference: TGMO is a classic Group III synthetic, with severely hydrotreated crude oil as a base. On the other hand, Mobil1 AFE 0w-20 is 30-40% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0w-20 is 60-70% PAO. I realize base oil isn't the whole package, but based on this I'm not sure TGMO quite deserves its status here. Compared to Mobil1 alternatives, at least.
Firstly the CoP made Honda 0W-20 is GP III based and I haven't heard of any deposit issues running a GF-5 0W-20 of any brand.
If one is concerned about intake tract deposits in DI engines it's not Noack one should be looking at but rather a low TEOST deposit score would be more relevant.
I haven't read anywhere that M1 EP 0W-20 is optimized for DI applications in fact I would think AFE would be a better choice between the two oils if the high TEOST deposit level of M1 EP 5W-30 is anything to go by.
I agree Mobil hasn't claimed either product is optimized for DI engines. But the Mobil1 EP 0w/20s seems pretty different from its 5w/30 counterpart, being 60-70% PAO compared to 20-30%. So the TEOST comparison may not be particularly useful. Of course, more disclosure by Mobil would make all this speculation unnecessary. But for my money if 0w-20 is what you need, Mobil1 EP sure seems like a good choice.
When it comes to low engine deposits PAO content has no inherent advantage over GP III based synthetics. In fact the oils with the lowest deposit levels I know of are GP III oils such as Castrol Edge.
While my 0W-20 preference for a 2014 Honda would be TGMO since it more closely approximates the viscosity of the OEM oil, particularly the Idemitsu made Honda oil sold in Canada, but if I had to choose between AFE and EP it would be AFE since it can easily handle the recommended OCI.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Danh
Toyota is not yet big on DI engines, at least not to the extent of Honda. Whether TGMO is optimized for DI engines (low Noack, etc.) is unknown.
2) TGMO has a good reputation here, but we can now see its composition from the MSDS on Mobil's website. Here's a big difference: TGMO is a classic Group III synthetic, with severely hydrotreated crude oil as a base. On the other hand, Mobil1 AFE 0w-20 is 30-40% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0w-20 is 60-70% PAO. I realize base oil isn't the whole package, but based on this I'm not sure TGMO quite deserves its status here. Compared to Mobil1 alternatives, at least.
Firstly the CoP made Honda 0W-20 is GP III based and I haven't heard of any deposit issues running a GF-5 0W-20 of any brand.
If one is concerned about intake tract deposits in DI engines it's not Noack one should be looking at but rather a low TEOST deposit score would be more relevant.
I haven't read anywhere that M1 EP 0W-20 is optimized for DI applications in fact I would think AFE would be a better choice between the two oils if the high TEOST deposit level of M1 EP 5W-30 is anything to go by.
I agree Mobil hasn't claimed either product is optimized for DI engines. But the Mobil1 EP 0w/20s seems pretty different from its 5w/30 counterpart, being 60-70% PAO compared to 20-30%. So the TEOST comparison may not be particularly useful. Of course, more disclosure by Mobil would make all this speculation unnecessary. But for my money if 0w-20 is what you need, Mobil1 EP sure seems like a good choice.
When it comes to low engine deposits PAO content has no inherent advantage over GP III based synthetics. In fact the oils with the lowest deposit levels I know of are GP III oils such as Castrol Edge.
While my 0W-20 preference for a 2014 Honda would be TGMO since it more closely approximates the viscosity of the OEM oil, particularly the Idemitsu made Honda oil sold in Canada, but if I had to choose between AFE and EP it would be AFE since it can easily handle the recommended OCI.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Danh
Toyota is not yet big on DI engines, at least not to the extent of Honda. Whether TGMO is optimized for DI engines (low Noack, etc.) is unknown.
2) TGMO has a good reputation here, but we can now see its composition from the MSDS on Mobil's website. Here's a big difference: TGMO is a classic Group III synthetic, with severely hydrotreated crude oil as a base. On the other hand, Mobil1 AFE 0w-20 is 30-40% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0w-20 is 60-70% PAO. I realize base oil isn't the whole package, but based on this I'm not sure TGMO quite deserves its status here. Compared to Mobil1 alternatives, at least.
Firstly the CoP made Honda 0W-20 is GP III based and I haven't heard of any deposit issues running a GF-5 0W-20 of any brand.
If one is concerned about intake tract deposits in DI engines it's not Noack one should be looking at but rather a low TEOST deposit score would be more relevant.
I haven't read anywhere that M1 EP 0W-20 is optimized for DI applications in fact I would think AFE would be a better choice between the two oils if the high TEOST deposit level of M1 EP 5W-30 is anything to go by.
I agree Mobil hasn't claimed either product is optimized for DI engines. But the Mobil1 EP 0w/20s seems pretty different from its 5w/30 counterpart, being 60-70% PAO compared to 20-30%. So the TEOST comparison may not be particularly useful. Of course, more disclosure by Mobil would make all this speculation unnecessary. But for my money if 0w-20 is what you need, Mobil1 EP sure seems like a good choice.
When it comes to low engine deposits PAO content has no inherent advantage over GP III based synthetics. In fact the oils with the lowest deposit levels I know of are GP III oils such as Castrol Edge.
While my 0W-20 preference for a 2014 Honda would be TGMO since it more closely approximates the viscosity of the OEM oil, particularly the Idemitsu made Honda oil sold in Canada, but if I had to choose between AFE and EP it would be AFE since it can easily handle the recommended OCI.
We're at a real disadvantage here inasmuch as:
1) The current generation of DI engines may or may not have an intake valve deposit issue. Or some engines may and some may not. Or driving conditions may make a difference. Or maybe not.
2) There doesn't seem to be anything definitive from auto or oil manufacturers regarding how best to avoid DI engine pitfalls. Neither is saying if TEOST or Noack is important, or which one is more important. In fact, as Ford's specs for its DI/turbo engines include conventionals, neither value may be important for Fords. German manufacturers may have a different view or may be dealing with a different set of problems.
So, we consumers are left pretty much to our own devices. I choose to focus on Noack as it makes sense to me. If I'm right about Noack, PAO or GTL-based oils should be preferable, and some manufacturers actually publish these specs. If TEOST is the answer, well, good luck finding an independent comparison of values. If it doesn't matter, no harm done with either approach.
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Danh
Toyota is not yet big on DI engines, at least not to the extent of Honda. Whether TGMO is optimized for DI engines (low Noack, etc.) is unknown.
2) TGMO has a good reputation here, but we can now see its composition from the MSDS on Mobil's website. Here's a big difference: TGMO is a classic Group III synthetic, with severely hydrotreated crude oil as a base. On the other hand, Mobil1 AFE 0w-20 is 30-40% PAO and Mobil1 EP 0w-20 is 60-70% PAO. I realize base oil isn't the whole package, but based on this I'm not sure TGMO quite deserves its status here. Compared to Mobil1 alternatives, at least.
Firstly the CoP made Honda 0W-20 is GP III based and I haven't heard of any deposit issues running a GF-5 0W-20 of any brand.
If one is concerned about intake tract deposits in DI engines it's not Noack one should be looking at but rather a low TEOST deposit score would be more relevant.
I haven't read anywhere that M1 EP 0W-20 is optimized for DI applications in fact I would think AFE would be a better choice between the two oils if the high TEOST deposit level of M1 EP 5W-30 is anything to go by.
I agree Mobil hasn't claimed either product is optimized for DI engines. But the Mobil1 EP 0w/20s seems pretty different from its 5w/30 counterpart, being 60-70% PAO compared to 20-30%. So the TEOST comparison may not be particularly useful. Of course, more disclosure by Mobil would make all this speculation unnecessary. But for my money if 0w-20 is what you need, Mobil1 EP sure seems like a good choice.
When it comes to low engine deposits PAO content has no inherent advantage over GP III based synthetics. In fact the oils with the lowest deposit levels I know of are GP III oils such as Castrol Edge.
While my 0W-20 preference for a 2014 Honda would be TGMO since it more closely approximates the viscosity of the OEM oil, particularly the Idemitsu made Honda oil sold in Canada, but if I had to choose between AFE and EP it would be AFE since it can easily handle the recommended OCI.
We're at a real disadvantage here inasmuch as:
1) The current generation of DI engines may or may not have an intake valve deposit issue. Or some engines may and some may not. Or driving conditions may make a difference. Or maybe not.
2) There doesn't seem to be anything definitive from auto or oil manufacturers regarding how best to avoid DI engine pitfalls. Neither is saying if TEOST or Noack is important, or which one is more important. In fact, as Ford's specs for its DI/turbo engines include conventionals, neither value may be important for Fords. German manufacturers may have a different view or may be dealing with a different set of problems.
So, we consumers are left pretty much to our own devices. I choose to focus on Noack as it makes sense to me. If I'm right about Noack, PAO or GTL-based oils should be preferable, and some manufacturers actually publish these specs. If TEOST is the answer, well, good luck finding an independent comparison of values. If it doesn't matter, no harm done with either approach.
Originally Posted By: Danh
So, we consumers are left pretty much to our own devices. I choose to focus on Noack as it makes sense to me. If I'm right about Noack, PAO or GTL-based oils should be preferable, and some manufacturers actually publish these specs. If TEOST is the answer, well, good luck finding an independent comparison of values. If it doesn't matter, no harm done with either approach.
Don't forget that there was a Lubrizol publication floating around that seemed to suggest that neither NOACK or TEOST (on their own at least) were important to DI valve deposit formation. The publication stated a reduction of valve deposits were noted when using LOW-SAPS oils. That throws all previous views / opinions off a bit
So, we consumers are left pretty much to our own devices. I choose to focus on Noack as it makes sense to me. If I'm right about Noack, PAO or GTL-based oils should be preferable, and some manufacturers actually publish these specs. If TEOST is the answer, well, good luck finding an independent comparison of values. If it doesn't matter, no harm done with either approach.
Don't forget that there was a Lubrizol publication floating around that seemed to suggest that neither NOACK or TEOST (on their own at least) were important to DI valve deposit formation. The publication stated a reduction of valve deposits were noted when using LOW-SAPS oils. That throws all previous views / opinions off a bit
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Where did you find TGMO MSDS?
Go to Google, and type in
"TGMO MSDS"
Yes, but where is the MSDS that states it's pure Group3?
Section 3 of the MSDS refers to composition. TGMO is almost all "severely hydrocracked....high paraffinic...", meaning its source is crude oil. For Mobil1 AFE and EP 0w/20, 30-70% is "1-Decene homopolymner....", which is a form of PAO.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that there are two TGMO 0W20 motor oils. One synthetic blend and one full synthetic. At least, I always get asked which I want when I walk up to parts window to get it.
Edit: Looking on Toyota's Genuine Parts page, I only see one 0W-20 motor oil listed. Will have to ask those guys what their pulling on me!!!
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Where did you find TGMO MSDS?
Go to Google, and type in
"TGMO MSDS"
Yes, but where is the MSDS that states it's pure Group3?
Section 3 of the MSDS refers to composition. TGMO is almost all "severely hydrocracked....high paraffinic...", meaning its source is crude oil. For Mobil1 AFE and EP 0w/20, 30-70% is "1-Decene homopolymner....", which is a form of PAO.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that there are two TGMO 0W20 motor oils. One synthetic blend and one full synthetic. At least, I always get asked which I want when I walk up to parts window to get it.
Edit: Looking on Toyota's Genuine Parts page, I only see one 0W-20 motor oil listed. Will have to ask those guys what their pulling on me!!!
Last edited:
In the States the Honda Brand 0W-20 comes in two
flavours, a syn blend and a full syn although a VOA on both is virtually identical.
There is only one version of Mobil made doTGMO and it's a 100% GP III based synthetic.
flavours, a syn blend and a full syn although a VOA on both is virtually identical.
There is only one version of Mobil made doTGMO and it's a 100% GP III based synthetic.
Honda Europe uses a Castrol made, Honda engineered, very high VI (220) 0W-20 much like TGMO. Just another reason why TGMO is IMO the best choice of available 0W-20s:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...l_H#Post3487348
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...l_H#Post3487348
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