Big brothering by Discount Tires

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If a rear tire blows out in a corner, you could lose the rear end and crash.

If a front tire blows out in a corner, you could lose steering or have the front end wash out, and crash.

Either way, it's a possible loss of control and crash.


One of those situations is harder to control than the other. It'd be nice to be able to assume a certain level of driver competence or other situational factors (such as existence of guardrails, presence of other vehicles, etc), but we just simply cannot.

Either way, it really is a moot point. If the driver wants 'em mounted some other way, he or she can effect that fix at home, and at no cost.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
One of those situations is harder to control than the other.

...and making that situation less likely requires compromising braking, which is a lot more likely to come in handy. Seems to me like a wash at best.

 

[grampi]

I've had blow outs on both the front and back...I'll take a rear tire blowing any day over a front in any condition...

 

[leeharvey418]

I'm still scratching my head over having a blowout on an inside tire, especially a rear inside tire. There are a lot of cars on the road that will lift the inside rear tire completely off the ground in hard cornering...

 

[supton]

Bad tire, broken cord I think (was about 20 years ago). I had driven home one night, and the vehicle suddenly had a tire unbalanced. IIRC I noticed the bulge the next morning, but needed to be someplace, so I drove it. I don't think the tire got even 10 miles on it after that cord broke (half that the night prior, other half in the morn) before it blew. Ripped from one bead to the other side, at about 45mph (I was taking it easy as I knew the tire was bad, just didn't know how bad it was).

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If a rear tire blows out in a corner, you could lose the rear end and crash.

If a front tire blows out in a corner, you could lose steering or have the front end wash out, and crash.

Either way, it's a possible loss of control and crash.


And since we rarely get to choose the conditions under which a blowout occurs it makes sense to have good tires properly placed. Obviously some here feel differently, but Joe average is being protected from himself here.

Most drivers here are not properly trained anyway, but IMO FWD cars are among the most dangerous out there due to ridiculous front weight bias and moment of inertia. They will snap spin like no other platform, and it happens FAST...

 

[Traction]

Never had to worry about it, because I have never run mismatched tires on any vehicle I have ever owned. Never cared for FWD cars over RWD either. Keep them rotated, aligned, or buy new. They should wear out 4 at a time. I do worry about it on customer cars though, trying to save a buck on my dime.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Traction
They should wear out 4 at a time.


Tell that to the tires. I USED to buy 4 new tires at a time, but I always end up with one or more of those tires going bad before the others and needing replacement. Since I won't replace good tires because it's a waste of money, I now end up replacing two at a time...and yes, I rotate my tires regularly...usually every oil change...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Since I won't replace good tires because it's a waste of money, I now end up replacing two at a time...and yes, I rotate my tires regularly...usually every oil change...


Now you've lost me. If your plan is to replace only two tires at a time, then what's the point of rotating them? And further, if they're rotated consistently, then how do you have only two bad tires that you need to replace, instead of all four?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: grampi
Since I won't replace good tires because it's a waste of money, I now end up replacing two at a time...and yes, I rotate my tires regularly...usually every oil change...


Now you've lost me. If your plan is to replace only two tires at a time, then what's the point of rotating them? And further, if they're rotated consistently, then how do you have only two bad tires that you need to replace, instead of all four?


When I say at least one tire goes bad out of a set of 4, I don't mean it wears out faster, I mean something goes wrong with the tire...it usually develops a thump and/or a shake that can't be corrected, therefore it makes no sense for me to always replace all 4 tires at the same time...I'd be throwing away a lot of good tires (and money) doing it that way...

 

[geeman789]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If a rear tire blows out in a corner, you could lose the rear end and crash.

If a front tire blows out in a corner, you could lose steering or have the front end wash out, and crash.

Either way, it's a possible loss of control and crash.


And since we rarely get to choose the conditions under which a blowout occurs it makes sense to have good tires properly placed. Obviously some here feel differently, but Joe average is being protected from himself here.

Most drivers here are not properly trained anyway, but IMO FWD cars are among the most dangerous out there due to ridiculous front weight bias and moment of inertia. They will snap spin like no other platform, and it happens FAST...


Seriously....? All the FWD cars I have driven either would not spin period, ever, nada.... understeer till the end...

Or, if properly set up, you could rotate them quite nicely with trail braking or sudden throttle lift... but you still had to FORCE it ...

Snap spin only happened on my FWD after I put new winter tires on the front, and left the worn all seasons on the back...!

Oh yeah, that's what the thread is about...

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If a rear tire blows out in a corner, you could lose the rear end and crash.

If a front tire blows out in a corner, you could lose steering or have the front end wash out, and crash.

Either way, it's a possible loss of control and crash.


And since we rarely get to choose the conditions under which a blowout occurs it makes sense to have good tires properly placed. Obviously some here feel differently, but Joe average is being protected from himself here.

Most drivers here are not properly trained anyway, but IMO FWD cars are among the most dangerous out there due to ridiculous front weight bias and moment of inertia. They will snap spin like no other platform, and it happens FAST...


Seriously....? All the FWD cars I have driven either would not spin period, ever, nada.... understeer till the end...

Or, if properly set up, you could rotate them quite nicely with trail braking or sudden throttle lift... but you still had to FORCE it ...

Snap spin only happened on my FWD after I put new winter tires on the front, and left the worn all seasons on the back...!

Oh yeah, that's what the thread is about...

I've done it once going off a cloverleaf a hair too fast. Went off a soft shoulder and into grass. Was my parents car, and it was still driving just fine. They sold it cheap, but mostly because it was old.

 

[AboutTires]

As a shop manager for ten years, I can't even estimate the number of times I've heard, "Why can't I just sign a waiver?"

I've heard it from people who want new tires on the front. I've heard it from people who want different tires on the same axle, who want tires that are too narrow for the wheels so they can get that "cool slanted sidewall look." I've heard it from people who want their sidewalls plugged, their damaged tires reinflated, their spokes welded or their alloy wheels widened.

For years I was tempted to say the same thing over and over again - "F*** your waiver. I'm an expert at this, and I'm trying to keep you and the people around you alive."

"But I'm a good driver." EVERYBODY says that. EVERY TIME. I DON'T CARE.

I'm not the DMV. I don't know how good a driver you are and it doesn't matter. I'm running a business, and I would prefer that my customers NOT DIE because I let them sign a piece of paper so they can do something I know bloody well is dangerous. Good drivers die every day because something goes wrong faster than human reflexes can react. I'm not going to help that happen just because you don't believe it could ever happen to you.

If that's Big Brother, so be it. Maybe you're a world-class driver, Grampi, but believe me for every one of you there are 50+ world-class idiots out there who desperately need protecting, not just for themselves but for everyone else on the highway with them - you included.

Thus endeth the rant.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

I have only ever owned 2 FWD cars and the first time I drove one in the snow I stuffed it into the curb...I was used to RWD and when trying to make a turn at about 15 since it was slick I started to slide a bit. NP I let off the brakes and goosed the gas trying to get the rear end to come around slightly and the front tires to bite...only problem was it was FWD...I went straight. Horrible design really.

I have occasionally found that merely lifting off the throttle a bit too abruptly in a fwd car while driving on snow (especially 2 inches or so of wet snow that has just fallen and never been driven over) or black ice can be enough to instantly bring the rear end around even if you don't touch the brakes.

Also I think understeer may be even more dangerous because it is likely to lead to a head on collision with oncoming traffic. If one were to oversteer into oncoming traffic it is less likely to be a head-on collision.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the general legal standing on waivers is as an "expert" in a field, you are not allowed to let someone give up their rights when you are knowingly doing something outside of the "recommended practices" in your industry.


I do not think you are wrong.

Legally the expert has to protect the uninformed. Even the know it alls who buck the recommendations...


That was always how it was explained to me at Sears, and at the dealer ever more so. Like I am not allowed to knowingly sell the wrong part to a customer kinda deal.


Yep, you folks are correct.

Originally Posted By: y_p_w

Still - I wonder how they reconcile this with normal tire rotations. With most vehicles you're talking about better tires on the rear if it's a set of 4 bought together and it's the first rotation or (assuming regular rotations and even wear with mileage) odd-numbered rotations.


I've seen America's Tire decline tire rotations if there is more than a 2/32" difference between the two axles.

With that said, these clowns are the same ones who advised me that it's preferable to replace tires at 5/32", and that the legal minimum is 3/32". This is something new that I started seeing recently, so I wonder if things have changed (and not for the better).

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If a rear tire blows out in a corner, you could lose the rear end and crash.

If a front tire blows out in a corner, you could lose steering or have the front end wash out, and crash.

Either way, it's a possible loss of control and crash.


And since we rarely get to choose the conditions under which a blowout occurs it makes sense to have good tires properly placed. Obviously some here feel differently, but Joe average is being protected from himself here.

Most drivers here are not properly trained anyway, but IMO FWD cars are among the most dangerous out there due to ridiculous front weight bias and moment of inertia. They will snap spin like no other platform, and it happens FAST...


Seriously....? All the FWD cars I have driven either would not spin period, ever, nada.... understeer till the end...

Or, if properly set up, you could rotate them quite nicely with trail braking or sudden throttle lift... but you still had to FORCE it ...

Snap spin only happened on my FWD after I put new winter tires on the front, and left the worn all seasons on the back...!

Oh yeah, that's what the thread is about...


And also proving that you are one of the drivers that need this protection!

Your lack of driving training and/or experience is precisely why these protective measures are needed.

Oh yeah, that's what the whole thread is about, eh?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
......With that said, these clowns are the same ones who advised me that it's preferable to replace tires at 5/32", and that the legal minimum is 3/32". This is something new that I started seeing recently, so I wonder if things have changed (and not for the better).



Critic: Same thought process. Wet and snow traction degrades with tread depth. As an "expert", they have the same obligation as to where to put new tires.

Please note, they "advised" you - they didn't refuse you service. I've seen situations where mechanics would refuse to reassemble a brake because it was so bad. We're talking degree, rather than kind.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: grampi
When I say at least one tire goes bad out of a set of 4, I don't mean it wears out faster, I mean something goes wrong with the tire...it usually develops a thump and/or a shake that can't be corrected, therefore it makes no sense for me to always replace all 4 tires at the same time...I'd be throwing away a lot of good tires (and money) doing it that way...


I guess that's some bad luck. I've never had to prematurely take a tire out of service that wasn't caused by a road hazard (puncture in the sidewall, etc). In that case, I level up and put the four new tires on, sell the three "good" ones, and come reasonably close to getting back most of the difference between buying two new and four new.

And I have four new tires out of the deal.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
With that said, these clowns are the same ones who advised me that it's preferable to replace tires at 5/32", and that the legal minimum is 3/32". This is something new that I started seeing recently, so I wonder if things have changed (and not for the better).

I'm not surprised. VERY few tires are any good with 5/32" or less, especially given how many years it takes for them to get that low.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: grampi
When I say at least one tire goes bad out of a set of 4, I don't mean it wears out faster, I mean something goes wrong with the tire...it usually develops a thump and/or a shake that can't be corrected, therefore it makes no sense for me to always replace all 4 tires at the same time...I'd be throwing away a lot of good tires (and money) doing it that way...


I guess that's some bad luck. I've never had to prematurely take a tire out of service that wasn't caused by a road hazard (puncture in the sidewall, etc). In that case, I level up and put the four new tires on, sell the three "good" ones, and come reasonably close to getting back most of the difference between buying two new and four new.

And I have four new tires out of the deal.


That's a lot of stuff going on there just for one bad tire...in this case I would just replace the bad tire and keep on truckin...I replace in pairs due to wear, but rarely do I replace all 4 tires at the same time anymore...