BestLine Synthetic Engine Treatment....

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Have any of you BITOG'ers used this product?

Would like to hear your opinion of it.....and if you would use it again.

Its been my belief that you should NEVER add anything to a quality oil (Like M-1), because it has all the additives necessary to properly lubricate your engine.

Agree or disagree with the above statement?
 
I think the only additives an oil will ever need is the occasion light solvent.

Beyond that everything else is good. Theses company's spend millions on their formula's. If one of theses small company's came up with something revolutionary they would be bought out in a instant.

As for solvents to much can be bad so I think oil manufactors typically keep them on the low side to be safe. So a little extra every other few changes isn't always a bad thing.
 
Originally Posted By: 3800Series
I think the only additives an oil will ever need is the occasion light solvent.

Beyond that everything else is good. Theses company's spend millions on their formula's. If one of theses small company's came up with something revolutionary they would be bought out in a instant.

As for solvents to much can be bad so I think oil manufactors typically keep them on the low side to be safe. So a little extra every other few changes isn't always a bad thing.


The only time a solvent should be used is when you have evidence of a sludged engine and when used only as a flush.
 
I don't believe in flushing engines. Not saying it doesn't work just pros and con's. Rather add a little cleaner hear and their then ever get to the point where I would possibly justify a flush.
 
Looks interesting but I haven't ever used it. If it is a fancy engine flush I would say it is kind of pricey. For motor flushing I prefer my $5 can of 5 minute motor flush.
 
But why would you need one here and there? I've got over a half million miles on two cars, and yet the insides are clean. How do I get to the point of needing it?

Originally Posted By: 3800Series
I don't believe in flushing engines. Not saying it doesn't work just pros and con's. Rather add a little cleaner hear and their then ever get to the point where I would possibly justify a flush.
 
It depends on personal preference. If you have a system that works well for you keep to it by all means. But for me my system works well. I don't really see the harm in adding a light solvent every 15-20k miles. I do it on my sons car every chance I get because he uses cheap bulk Dino and service shops and he's known to go over 7-8k.

Its just personal preference. I consider it more preventive maintenance. Not every one takes care of their vehicles. For those that do if you have a good non sludge prone engine you might never need it.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
What is in Bestline ngine Treatment that is not in formulated engine oils?

What is in Bestline Engine Treatment... period? Now that would be useful information.

As for "formulated engine oil", that means just about anything, or more likely means nothing. If a reader runs his finger across the VOA analysis of popular synthetic oils Petroleum Quality Institute, you can find just about any formulation imaginable. Are all of these "fully formulated" or "partially formulated" or what?

For example, Castrol Edge has 1462ppm of magnesium, Mobil-1 is 772ppm and no other brand tested has more than 20ppm (and most are in the 'single digits'). Maybe Castrol and Mobil got a good price on magnesium at an additive close-out sale? But Mobil should have bought more... because they ran out when they made Mobil Super Synthetic... it's down to 10ppm.

Molybdenum? Schaeffer's Supreme wins the prize at 309ppm, Eneos comes in second at 171ppm and everybody else is an also-ran, typically below 80ppm.

Sodium (which makes for a really spectacular lab demo) is very popular in Valvoline Synpower, Lukoil, Schaeffer's Supreme, Lukas, Royal Purple, Auto Extra and NAPA, and virtually non-existent in any other brands. A partial explanation of this might be that NAPA and Auto Extra (maybe some others) simply buy their oil from some another company. I've never even heard of some of the brands tested, so who knows?

Don't like synthetics? How about 5w-20 oils tested by PQIA? Penzoil and Chevron win the prize for Molybdenum - everybody else is an also-ran. But Kendall discovered Titanium - uniquely so among all the 5w-20's or synthetics, above - no one uses it. Magnesium is clearly out of fashion - not much more than a trace element anywhere.

Conclusion? About the only conclusion is that all the tribologists placed end-to-end would not reach a conclusion. Terms like "fully formulated" sound great as they roll off the tongue but mean nothing. Maybe it's the scientific way of saying "big oil will take care of you".
 
I don't look at it that way at all. "Fully formulated" to me means that the oil has been mixed with an objective (and specifications) in mind, while also noting that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I freely admit that I don't know enough to want to tinker with moly levels, but I do know that there are different kinds of moly (not to mention other friction modifiers), so I don't fret over how many PPM of moly appears in a VOA or UOA.

As for magnesium, well, Mola will have to answer this for sure and fix my faulty assumptions and conclusions, but it might be an effective way for XOM to formulate an A5/B5 SN/GF-5 type oil (note there are no A5/B5 20 grades) while keeping SA under control. It certainly seems to work that way for E7/E9 type HDEOs. Accordingly, I'd expect to find it in Castrol Edge, Mobil 1, Rotella synthetic, and Delvac 1, but not in PYB or a non-ACEA bargain type synthetic.

I certainly have a phobia for mixing and joke about it all the time. Some people have luck with additives; I generally avoid them. My view is that if I want to use Quaker State, I'll use it all on its own.

I know some people use additives for a specific goal in mind, and if that works for them, fantastic. I just can't think of anything I can buy off the shelf or by mail that will improve Quaker State, Delvac 1, Royal Purple, or any API or ACEA certified oil out there across the board.

And fully formulated motor oils will always follow different blending philosophies. If there was one best way out there to meet specifications at the lowest overhead, it would be used in every oil. As it stands, there are different specifications, the specifications evolve, new methods become available, and cost of ingredients changes.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
I don't look at it that way at all. "Fully formulated" to me means that the oil has been mixed with an objective (and specifications) in mind, while also noting that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I freely admit that I don't know enough to want to tinker with moly levels, but I do know that there are different kinds of moly (not to mention other friction modifiers), so I don't fret over how many PPM of moly appears in a VOA or UOA.

If I say "your product is snake oil but my product is 'fully formulated', do you know any more about the products? Well, other than I like my product and dislike yours? It's just a form of name calling - nothing more. And, it provides no useful information about the products.

Go to the PQIA synthetic oil analysis sheet. All of these oils are "fully formulated", right? But, if you look carefully, you'll note that more than a few of these oils have a healthy dose of phosphorous and zinc, but not much else. Are they 'fully formulated'? Or, were they tossed together on a Friday, just to get a product out the door?

Look further: some of the phosphorous/zinc formulations also include Molybdenum - usually in the 80ppm range. Are these 'fully formulated'? If they are fully formulated, then what about the phosphorous/zinc formulations which lack molybdenum? Maybe the tribologist at this company forgot to take a class on molybdenum?

Still not convinced? Take a look at the oil bottle labels. Lucas Synthetic 5w-30 proclaims "America's Finest Motor Oil". That's good to know.

Many of the brands say "Full Synthetic" or "Fully Synthetic" - but that is almost certainly false, at least in the sense that the German Castrol folks use that term. Maybe "Full Synthetic" or "Fully Synthetic" are just marketing terms which really mean very little.

Quaker State proclaims "Ultimate Durability". That's good to know. This claim is from a company that controls about 65% of the additives market, including such fine products as Slick 50.

As I asked in an earlier post, what is in Bestline Engine Treatment? That would be useful information. As for "formulated engine oil", that could mean just about anything, or more likely means nothing. It's just an advertising claim that has graduated from college.

--

Can't think of anything that would improve Quaker State? Why don't you ask the Quaker State folks? They have more additive products available than Carter has peanuts. You should trust them!
 
Quote:
Dave5358:

Go to the PQIA synthetic oil analysis sheet. All of these oils are "fully formulated", right? But, if you look carefully, you'll note that more than a few of these oils have a healthy dose of phosphorous and zinc, but not much else. Are they 'fully formulated'? Or, were they tossed together on a Friday, just to get a product out the door?

Look further: some of the phosphorous/zinc formulations also include Molybdenum - usually in the 80ppm range. Are these 'fully formulated'? If they are fully formulated, then what about the phosphorous/zinc formulations which lack molybdenum? Maybe the tribologist at this company forgot to take a class on molybdenum?


Garak answered your question, "fully."

Quote:


Garak: I don't look at it that way at all. "Fully formulated" to me means that the oil has been mixed with an objective (and specifications) in mind, while also noting that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I freely admit that I don't know enough to want to tinker with moly levels, but I do know that there are different kinds of moly (not to mention other friction modifiers), so I don't fret over how many PPM of moly appears in a VOA or UOA.


There are many different ways to formulate a motor oil to achieve the same specification.

Quote:

Dave5358:
If they are fully formulated, then what about the phosphorous/zinc formulations which lack molybdenum? Maybe the tribologist at this company forgot to take a class on molybdenum?


There are many different ways to formulate a motor oil to achieve the same specification.

There is no such thing as a phosphorous/zinc formulation.
 
Last edited:
Just playing devils advocate here: The objective of oil companies (or any company) is to make money, not give you the best product possible. I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with. If you want something even better (even though it is overkill and completely unnecessary, which I don't think is out of line for such a specific enthusiast forum like this), you probably can't buy it.
 
Originally Posted By: Stregone
The objective of oil companies (or any company) is to make money, not give you the best product possible. I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with. If you want something even better (even though it is overkill and completely unnecessary, which I don't think is out of line for such a specific enthusiast forum like this), you probably can't buy it.

+1. I couldn't have said it better.
 
Quote:
I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with.


The reality is, they make the best product they can to meet industry specifications, and charge as much as the market will bear, over and above their costs for components, capital equipment, logistics, R&D, marketing, etc.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with.


The reality is, they make the best product they can to meet industry specifications, and charge as much as the market will bear, over and above their costs for components, capital equipment, logistics, R&D, marketing, etc.



In more simple terms. They make a product to a certain price point to sell for a profit. The truth is any product they produce can be made better, and they know it. The problem is they'd probably price themselves out of business making the best oil possible.
 
Originally Posted By: Stregone
Just playing devils advocate here: The objective of oil companies (or any company) is to make money, not give you the best product possible. I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with. If you want something even better (even though it is overkill and completely unnecessary, which I don't think is out of line for such a specific enthusiast forum like this), you probably can't buy it.


You mean we live in a world of capitalism (greed) and free markets (competition)?
 
Originally Posted By: dave5358
If I say "your product is snake oil but my product is 'fully formulated', do you know any more about the products? Well, other than I like my product and dislike yours? It's just a form of name calling - nothing more. And, it provides no useful information about the products.

Go to the PQIA synthetic oil analysis sheet. All of these oils are "fully formulated", right? But, if you look carefully, you'll note that more than a few of these oils have a healthy dose of phosphorous and zinc, but not much else. Are they 'fully formulated'? Or, were they tossed together on a Friday, just to get a product out the door?

Look further: some of the phosphorous/zinc formulations also include Molybdenum - usually in the 80ppm range. Are these 'fully formulated'? If they are fully formulated, then what about the phosphorous/zinc formulations which lack molybdenum? Maybe the tribologist at this company forgot to take a class on molybdenum?

Still not convinced? Take a look at the oil bottle labels. Lucas Synthetic 5w-30 proclaims "America's Finest Motor Oil". That's good to know.

Many of the brands say "Full Synthetic" or "Fully Synthetic" - but that is almost certainly false, at least in the sense that the German Castrol folks use that term. Maybe "Full Synthetic" or "Fully Synthetic" are just marketing terms which really mean very little.

Quaker State proclaims "Ultimate Durability". That's good to know. This claim is from a company that controls about 65% of the additives market, including such fine products as Slick 50.

As I asked in an earlier post, what is in Bestline Engine Treatment? That would be useful information. As for "formulated engine oil", that could mean just about anything, or more likely means nothing. It's just an advertising claim that has graduated from college.

--

Can't think of anything that would improve Quaker State? Why don't you ask the Quaker State folks? They have more additive products available than Carter has peanuts. You should trust them!


Don't know why, but this movie came to mind:
 
So let's take M1 EP or maybe even M1 0W-40. What would you say is deficient or could be made better that ExxonMobil leaves out to cut costs?

Originally Posted By: Stregone
Just playing devils advocate here: The objective of oil companies (or any company) is to make money, not give you the best product possible. I have no doubt that all the big oil companies produce a product that is perfectly fine, but it isn't that way because they do it out of the goodness of their hearts. They make the best product they have to, and charge as much as they can get away with. If you want something even better (even though it is overkill and completely unnecessary, which I don't think is out of line for such a specific enthusiast forum like this), you probably can't buy it.
 
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