Euro Oil.....Why?

[skyactiv]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I did a road trip with my GTI today and got an indicated 32.8 MPG doing 75ish MPH. I have the gold bottle Castrol Edge with Titanium 5W30 in it which is an energy conserving oil. I'm coming up on 5K and am doing a UOA.


I decided to let my dealer do the last free VW maintenance oil & filter change. I wont be doing a UOA on this oil.

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: V70tdi

Looks like Europé is late to accept new tecnology. For an example Volvo made the U.S speced cars for export with catalytic converter from 1976 but it took to 1986-1987 until we started to use it on cars here in Sweden.
I cant se any 0w20 oil in stores here in Sweden and even 0w30 is hard to find.

When did Sweden get unleaded gasoline? No car could have a cat and use unleaded gasoline, and not all countries got unleaded gasoline at the same time. The USA got unleaded gasoline in 1971, and most USA-spec engines were equipped with cats in 1975.

The other reason some cars didn't use cats is because in the USA, smog laws were always tougher than European smog laws. Some engines didn't produce levels of smog to make a cat necessary.

 

[V70tdi]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: V70tdi

Looks like Europé is late to accept new tecnology. For an example Volvo made the U.S speced cars for export with catalytic converter from 1976 but it took to 1986-1987 until we started to use it on cars here in Sweden.
I cant se any 0w20 oil in stores here in Sweden and even 0w30 is hard to find.

When did Sweden get unleaded gasoline? No car could have a cat and use unleaded gasoline, and not all countries got unleaded gasoline at the same time. The USA got unleaded gasoline in 1971, and most USA-spec engines were equipped with cats in 1975.

The other reason some cars didn't use cats is because in the USA, smog laws were always tougher than European smog laws. Some engines didn't produce levels of smog to make a cat necessary.


In the middle of 80 we started to get unleaded fuel for sale. We are really slow to accept new tecnic and start to use it.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
You are both right to a point. First it's not true that 20w50 was recommended to mid 90s, that was in 70s and good part of 80s. I'm not that young to not know what was recommended in 90s. I discussed this with my dad (guy was quite a petrol head when young) and man said 15w40 was most common grade for normal cars of that era.
But he also mentioned that some of his cars used 10w50 or 20w50 like Alfa 1750 Berlina, Fiat 125 TC and R8 Gordini.But we have warm whether here so I'm not sure what was spec'd in colder climate.


So the owner's manuals of my current e36 and our last W201 were both wrong?
Both recommended 20W-50 for hot summer weather.
Could BMW and Mercedes have made the same error in their owner's manuals?
I guess that both DB and BMW should have checked with your father before making their oil grade recommendations.

 

[Win]

My two decade old Xj12 spec'ed a range from 5w-20, to 20w-50, depending on climate. I use 10w-30.

My decade old Xj8 specs 0/5w - 30/40, no special certs, regardless of climate. I use 5w-30.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: V70tdi
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: V70tdi

Looks like Europé is late to accept new tecnology. For an example Volvo made the U.S speced cars for export with catalytic converter from 1976 but it took to 1986-1987 until we started to use it on cars here in Sweden.
I cant se any 0w20 oil in stores here in Sweden and even 0w30 is hard to find.

When did Sweden get unleaded gasoline? No car could have a cat and use unleaded gasoline, and not all countries got unleaded gasoline at the same time. The USA got unleaded gasoline in 1971, and most USA-spec engines were equipped with cats in 1975.

The other reason some cars didn't use cats is because in the USA, smog laws were always tougher than European smog laws. Some engines didn't produce levels of smog to make a cat necessary.


In the middle of 80 we started to get unleaded fuel for sale. We are really slow to accept new tecnic and start to use it.


Situation now is opposite. The U.S. generally is slow to accept new technologies mostly because os the U.S. domestic political reasons. Nothing to do with capability to accept new technology.
It goes like this: any new technology is attack on freedom. Something along those lines.

 

[kschachn]

If you use the more appropriate term, regulations, then it makes more sense. it's not a slam against any political view you might have, but use of the term technology is obfuscating to the situation and makes it seem as though being a stick in the mud is because of a desire to cling to the past. That is not the case.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Situation now is opposite. The U.S. generally is slow to accept new technologies mostly because os the U.S. domestic political reasons. Nothing to do with capability to accept new technology.
It goes like this: any new technology is attack on freedom. Something along those lines.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Complete and utter nonsense.

The US is the largest market for new tech in the world today. Period.

No facts anywhere back up this illogical statement...

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: V70tdi
In the middle of 80 we started to get unleaded fuel for sale. We are really slow to accept new tecnic and start to use it.

At least, you switched to the right side of the road while UK is still fighting Napoleon on the left side. I remember it was very orderly, one Sunday morning at 4 or 5 AM Sweden started to ride on the right side.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
If you use the more appropriate term, regulations, then it makes more sense. it's not a slam against any political view you might have, but use of the term technology is obfuscating to the situation and makes it seem as though being a stick in the mud is because of a desire to cling to the past. That is not the case.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Situation now is opposite. The U.S. generally is slow to accept new technologies mostly because os the U.S. domestic political reasons. Nothing to do with capability to accept new technology.
It goes like this: any new technology is attack on freedom. Something along those lines.

OK wrong expression.
Yes, any new regulation is translated in the political theater as threat to freedom and other nonsense.
That is why we have high sulfur gas, etc, etc.
And that is why FIAT owns today Chrysler, and tax payers bailed out GM.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: chrisri
You are both right to a point. First it's not true that 20w50 was recommended to mid 90s, that was in 70s and good part of 80s. I'm not that young to not know what was recommended in 90s. I discussed this with my dad (guy was quite a petrol head when young) and man said 15w40 was most common grade for normal cars of that era.
But he also mentioned that some of his cars used 10w50 or 20w50 like Alfa 1750 Berlina, Fiat 125 TC and R8 Gordini.But we have warm whether here so I'm not sure what was spec'd in colder climate.


So the owner's manuals of my current e36 and our last W201 were both wrong?
Both recommended 20W-50 for hot summer weather.
Could BMW and Mercedes have made the same error in their owner's manuals?
I guess that both DB and BMW should have checked with your father before making their oil grade recommendations.


Since you have e36, you clearly can see in your manual that oil grade that covers from -20 to +30 *C is 15w40. And this was commonly USED back then (90s) in Europe. And I was referring to Europe in my earlier post. But since you live in Ohio you probably know better what was used back then over here.
Cheers.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Since you have e36, you clearly can see in your manual that oil grade that covers from -20 to +30 *C is 15w40. And this was commonly USED back then (90s) in Europe.

Here's the chart that applied for my Audi 200 Turbo:

Both sides of the argument can use it. After all, it calls for 15w-40 well below 0 C, yet allows 5w-20.

 

[ledslinger]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Since you have e36, you clearly can see in your manual that oil grade that covers from -20 to +30 *C is 15w40. And this was commonly USED back then (90s) in Europe.

Here's the chart that applied for my Audi 200 Turbo:

Both sides of the argument can use it. After all, it calls for 15w-40 well below 0 C, yet allows 5w-20.

On that chart, can't use 5W30 above 15 F, but you can use 10W up to 24 F.

 

[Garak]

Actually, that's around 60 F for the 10w-30, but in any event, it is a little low, and look at the 10w-40 in there at that level, too. I guess that might make sense with the old HTHS values. In any event, I usually used a 15w-40 or a 5w-40 or 0w-40 in mine. It drank 5w-30 like water, so I didn't do that often.

 

[riggaz]

In the mid nineties the most common oil was 15w40 mineral and 10w40 semi synthetic. 20w50 was created in the sixties to solve a problem with the Mini gearbox but was actually rarely recommended by the manufacturer. Unfortunately in Britain the importance of the correct oil viscosity was misunderstood by garages and the general public so the garages would just stock 20w50 and put it in everything.

Many cars like Austins, Rileys, Austin Healey's, Jaguars and so on were spec'd for SAE30 or 10w30 but these oils were not stocked widely by shops and garages so 20w50 was the one on the shelf so thats what went in.

This situation repeated itself in the nineties and naughties with garages putting 10w40 semi synthetic in everything.

Thankfully due to information sheets being sent around to the garages by motor factors regarding the importance of getting the application right most have modified their old ways, but there are still some workshops i know of that put 10w40 into every car they see because they only want to keep one oil in stock!!!

Today the most common oils are 5w-30 of A3, B4, A5, B5, C1, C2, C3, C4 variety. The average sump on a car is 3 - 5 litres with the oil drain intervals of about 10K and 20K-30K for longlife servicing.