Tire performance vs temperature graph

[Quattro Pete]

I've been seeing these types of graphs all over the internet on various sites and forums. I find them so generic to the point of being useless. At first glance, they kind of make sense, but the more you think about it, the more ridiculous they seem.

For example:

1. What does "Performance Level" really mean?

2. What does 0% performance mean, like in the case of a summer tire driven in below 0 degree temp? Zero grip? Not true if we're talking about dry pavement.

3. And then there is the winter tire curve which makes it look as if your winter tires magically improve in performance the colder it gets. While I agree with the general notion that winter tires feature special rubber compounds that stay soft at low temperatures, I don't see how that would translate into them actually getting better the colder it gets. If we talk about grip, in my experience winter tires are actually very grippy even during summer, alas, they wear out quickly then of course.

4. Then there is this magical 7 degree C (45F) crossover point where the world gets turned upside down when it comes to all tires. Is it really this clear cut?

Am I wrong on these points? Does this graph make sense to you? Maybe I'm trying to read too much into it...

For the record, I am a strong believer in using the right tires for the conditions. They all have their place. I'm just bothered by this graph somehow.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Likewise. No real meaningful anything contained therein.

OK, I am lost, as I don't get the "performance" thing either. Braking? Wet traction?

 

[ZeeOSix]

All the graph is saying is the winter tires are best for winter (cold temps), summer tires are best for summer (hot temps) and that all-season tires can do both hot and cold climates reasonably well. Like who didn't know that already - LOL.

 

[Rand]

marketing graph.

shreds of facts = happy sheeple

you wouldnt believe how many people I see with near new blizzacks in the middle of summer on their minivan.

 

[Kuato]

3. Winter tire curve...doesn't show them getting better as it gets colder, but rather getting worse when warmer. IMO.

Agree that is marketing artwork; unless they used some actual testing evidence, it is simply a recommendation as to what works when, and at what temperature to change over.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
3. Winter tire curve...doesn't show them getting better as it gets colder, but rather getting worse when warmer. IMO.

Isn't it kind of the same thing though?

 

[ET16]

It looks like you could get away with running summer tires all year in some areas.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: ET16
It looks like you could get away with running summer tires all year in some areas.

Absolutely. When I lived in FL, that's all I ran.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Kuato
3. Winter tire curve...doesn't show them getting better as it gets colder, but rather getting worse when warmer. IMO.

Isn't it kind of the same thing though?


Sortakinda, and it's a little subtle I admit. Since they are winter tires, there is a certain level of performance they have when cold, that degrades with increasing temperature...a more accurate way of considering them - why would you buy winter tires for summer, then expect better performance as it got colder?

(and I was actually agreeing with you, since you said):


Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


... which makes it look as if your winter tires magically improve in performance the colder it gets. While I agree with the general notion that winter tires feature special rubber compounds that stay soft at low temperatures, I don't see how that would translate into them actually getting better the colder it gets....



Ah well, I use all seasons anyway!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since they are winter tires, there is a certain level of performance they have when cold, that degrades with increasing temperature

What part of their performance degrades with increasing temperature?

I guess I'm just not seeing it.


Quote:
Ah well, I use all seasons anyway!

Heh... I use all-seasons during three seasons, and then put on my winter tires for winter.

 

[IndyIan]

I've never ever noticed a reduction in traction with my winter tires in the summer in normal driving. I could see them over heating quite easily during autocross or a track day, but so do all seasons, and all tires will overheat at some point if you abuse them.
I actually find the old X-ice's I'm running on the Tracker quite nice for summer running. Not to noisy or squirmy and they do seem to have much more overall grip than the Uniroyal tiger paws that came with the Tracker. They do well in the grass and mud until you spin them and clog up the tread, but they are still miles ahead of a basic 4 rib all-season tire off road.

 

[Quattro Pete]

IndyIan, that is exactly my point. As the temps go up, the rubber gets even more sticky, which you could argue that it actually improves performance, for both winter and summer tires alike.

The only downside is faster wear, but I don't consider it a performance factor.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

I've been seeing these types of graphs all over the internet on various sites and forums. I find them so generic to the point of being useless. At first glance, they kind of make sense, but the more you think about it, the more ridiculous they seem.

For example:

1. What does "Performance Level" really mean?



Exactly! For most people, if it's round, mostly black and holds air, it's performing at 100%

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


2. What does 0% performance mean, like in the case of a summer tire driven in below 0 degree temp? Zero grip? Not true if we're talking about dry pavement.



See above.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


3. And then there is the winter tire curve which makes it look as if your winter tires magically improve in performance the colder it gets. While I agree with the general notion that winter tires feature special rubber compounds that stay soft at low temperatures, I don't see how that would translate into them actually getting better the colder it gets. If we talk about grip, in my experience winter tires are actually very grippy even during summer, alas, they wear out quickly then of course.

4. Then there is this magical 7 degree C (45F) crossover point where the world gets turned upside down when it comes to all tires. Is it really this clear cut?

Am I wrong on these points? Does this graph make sense to you? Maybe I'm trying to read too much into it...

For the record, I am a strong believer in using the right tires for the conditions. They all have their place. I'm just bothered by this graph somehow.

As others have said, it's mostly marketing. Those of us with a scientific bent cannot take such graphics too seriously.

In reality, it's similar to suggesting an oil is a 5W30. None of us think the oil will really be "thinner" (I know, not the right term) at 0C vs 100C. Just as a multi-viscosity oil will behave like differing single viscosity oils as the temperature changes, the tires performance will change relative to how others tires change at the given temperature.

So if you are comfortable with the concept of multi-viscosity oils, you can apply the same concept to how tires behave.

The winter tire is akin to how a single viscosity 5W oil behaves, the summer tire is similar to a 40 and the all season tire is your multi-grade tire that is "good enough" for most through a variety of conditions.

I know, not exactly a match as a metaphor, but that's how I took it.

YMMV

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Since they are winter tires, there is a certain level of performance they have when cold, that degrades with increasing temperature

What part of their performance degrades with increasing temperature?

I guess I'm just not seeing it.





In one way I was just going with what the graph portrayed. But to hash the English a bit, the word "performance" is very broad, and could be used to indicate longevity, or as Indylan said, overheating more rapidly than a summer tire.

Potatoes, potatas!!

 

[PandaBear]

If summer tires are just as cheap as all season, I'd run them year round.

 

[Ken2]

It makes perfect sense. Who (besides us) would spend a second looking at it if the graph had coefficient of friction instead of "performance?"

On a hot summer emergency maneuver, do you expect winter tires to grip that hot 170°F Phoenix pavement as good as summer tires? I don't. OK, that temperature is an extreme, but the principle stays the same even with 90 & 100° summer air temperatures elsewhere.

Marketing, sure. Good advice?...I think so.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
On a hot summer emergency maneuver, do you expect winter tires to grip that hot 170°F Phoenix pavement as good as summer tires? I don't. OK, that temperature is an extreme, but the principle stays the same even with 90 & 100° summer air temperatures elsewhere.

Have you tried?

I've driven on winter Nokians during summer in Texas, and I found them very grippy. Now, wear was of course another issue...

 

[Hokiefyd]

The graph is accurate when you consider that they're comparing tires in a relative sense, and it's obviously very generalized. In general, winter tires perform worse than all-season or summer tires in milder conditions. This has been demonstrated in many different tire tests. Likewise, summer tires perform worse than all-season or winter tires on very cold pavement, even if it's dry and without snow or ice.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
In general, winter tires perform worse than all-season or summer tires in milder conditions. This has been demonstrated in many different tire tests.

The point is, the graph makes it seem as if winter tires performed horribly in warmer weather, but then all of a sudden their performance improved as the temps dropped.

My point is that this is not accurate. The only thing we can conclude is that winter tire's performance is less affected by temperature variations due to the rubber compounds used. Another words, as temperatures drop, their performance does not drop. But the graph would make you believe that their performance actually gets better.

Winter tires actually deliver pretty good performance during summer:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Summer-VS-Winter-tyres-Warm-weather-performance.htm

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The point is, the graph makes it seem as if winter tires performed horribly in warmer weather, but then all of a sudden their performance improved as the temps dropped.


I disagree. The graph doesn't tell me that the absolute performance of the winter tire gets better as temperatures drop. It tells me that the relative performance of the winter tire gets better as temperatures drop, compared with the other types of tires. Over on the right, the classify the appropriateness of each type of tire in -30 deg C weather relative to the other choices. The winter tire will give you the best performance. The all-season tire will give you acceptable performance. The summer tire will give unsatisfactory performance.

The graph you posted has no title, and may have been posted out of context. Where did you find the image?