Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Originally Posted By: evanautumn
Originally Posted By: evanautumn
Tdbo said:
Taurus Police Package--any updates on durability?
- Thread starter synthetic_crazy
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here, a lot of the Smaller Local depts replaced decrepit Vics with chargers. most haven't replaced their Chargers yet.
The county Sheriff maintained their Vics as long as they could/can, and are being replaced with both Taurus and Explorer models, mostly Exporers, as they(CVPI'S) are too far gone.
I've seen the City Cops with a Few Tauri.
Of course, the Decison Makers are a Little Biased as NA engines used in the Ford Police Models are Made here. (Lima Ford Engine Makes the 3.5l, 3.7l V6's, and send Blocks to Cleveland engine for the EcoBoost Versions.(also the new 2.7 EcoBoost for the 2015 F150)
same reason all the cops near my brother's place in the DFW Midcities seem to Drive Tahoes, they are built there.(Arlington,TX)
my Favorite Tidbit on the new Fords, they have an additional bit of X Bracing in the spare tire area(In the Explorer it uses the Same bolt holes as the 3rd Row Seat in Civilian Models) and with that Brace, and the Spare Tire in place, the Passenger Cabin Can withstand a 70mph Rear Impact.
The county Sheriff maintained their Vics as long as they could/can, and are being replaced with both Taurus and Explorer models, mostly Exporers, as they(CVPI'S) are too far gone.
I've seen the City Cops with a Few Tauri.
Of course, the Decison Makers are a Little Biased as NA engines used in the Ford Police Models are Made here. (Lima Ford Engine Makes the 3.5l, 3.7l V6's, and send Blocks to Cleveland engine for the EcoBoost Versions.(also the new 2.7 EcoBoost for the 2015 F150)
same reason all the cops near my brother's place in the DFW Midcities seem to Drive Tahoes, they are built there.(Arlington,TX)
my Favorite Tidbit on the new Fords, they have an additional bit of X Bracing in the spare tire area(In the Explorer it uses the Same bolt holes as the 3rd Row Seat in Civilian Models) and with that Brace, and the Spare Tire in place, the Passenger Cabin Can withstand a 70mph Rear Impact.
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The chargers with the hemis are faster but the fords hold up better.. Nothing as good as the vics which mostly turned into taxi cabs.
the vics are much better ram cars and were always very reliable.
It seems that everyone is buying up the vics and grand marquis despite the gas prices and most say they are not so bad on gas anyway.
the vics are much better ram cars and were always very reliable.
It seems that everyone is buying up the vics and grand marquis despite the gas prices and most say they are not so bad on gas anyway.
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
Tahoes really aren't rare. I passed 3 of them (silver colored) in a 5 mile stretch yesterday on 315. They have a bunch of them in NE Ohio, some are white and some are the silver they switched back to when they started buying the Chargers.
I've passed em on 36/37 but that's about it. None in my area though. Makes sense to see more up north with the lake effect snow.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
It seems that everyone is buying up the vics and grand marquis despite the gas prices and most say they are not so bad on gas anyway.
They're really not. about 23mpg on regular for me (premium doesn't seem to do any better)
Tahoes really aren't rare. I passed 3 of them (silver colored) in a 5 mile stretch yesterday on 315. They have a bunch of them in NE Ohio, some are white and some are the silver they switched back to when they started buying the Chargers.
I've passed em on 36/37 but that's about it. None in my area though. Makes sense to see more up north with the lake effect snow.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
It seems that everyone is buying up the vics and grand marquis despite the gas prices and most say they are not so bad on gas anyway.
They're really not. about 23mpg on regular for me (premium doesn't seem to do any better)
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
The chargers with the hemis are faster but the fords hold up better.. Nothing as good as the vics which mostly turned into taxi cabs.
the vics are much better ram cars and were always very reliable.
It seems that everyone is buying up the vics and grand marquis despite the gas prices and most say they are not so bad on gas anyway.
I filled up my Crown Vic today and calculated 19.5mpg. That is about 60% highway and 40% city.
By the way, thanks to everyone who has provided input; I've enjoyed the readings.
The chargers with the hemis are faster but the fords hold up better.. Nothing as good as the vics which mostly turned into taxi cabs.
the vics are much better ram cars and were always very reliable.
It seems that everyone is buying up the vics and grand marquis despite the gas prices and most say they are not so bad on gas anyway.
I filled up my Crown Vic today and calculated 19.5mpg. That is about 60% highway and 40% city.
By the way, thanks to everyone who has provided input; I've enjoyed the readings.
As a taxi the Crown Vic does well. It's also a safe car in an accident. A taxi driver was falling asleep at the wheel when he braked hard to avoid hitting a car in the rear. He spun sideways, came to a stop and was t-boned by a Jeep Commander in the driver's door. The accident destroyed the Jeep and the Crown Vic but the taxi driver got away with bumps, bruises and a broken leg. The Crown Vic saved his life.
A California Highway Patrol officer that responded to that accident said that the safety and durability of the Crown Vics made them their all time favorite patrol vehicle and they would be a hard act to follow. He went on to say that when they received a Dodge Charger is soon became a parking lot queen because no one wanted to drive it after a first test drive. They felt claustrophobic in the car and had too many electrical and front end problems. He said he thought the Charger suffered in comparison because they expected it to measure up to Crown Vic standards.
A California Highway Patrol officer that responded to that accident said that the safety and durability of the Crown Vics made them their all time favorite patrol vehicle and they would be a hard act to follow. He went on to say that when they received a Dodge Charger is soon became a parking lot queen because no one wanted to drive it after a first test drive. They felt claustrophobic in the car and had too many electrical and front end problems. He said he thought the Charger suffered in comparison because they expected it to measure up to Crown Vic standards.
So much baloney.
I have a ton of LEO's as friends, clients, and even co-workers.
Item one, in a local county fleet of over 300 units the newer Chevy Impalas had the BEST repair history of any car ever used there!
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
Item three, the new Chargers are a hoot to drive, all cops love horsepower. Roomy all day comfort. The newest 370 hp awd model is a tough act to follow.
Item four, that same department mentioned above has some new Fords and they are having issues already. Their chief says they are not well received by the deputies and are too cramped with equipment installed.
Note also that the smart depts IMO are using Tahoes and finding out their terrific resale is the best reason! May be the cheapest car ever, because they sell off so well...
I have a ton of LEO's as friends, clients, and even co-workers.
Item one, in a local county fleet of over 300 units the newer Chevy Impalas had the BEST repair history of any car ever used there!
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
Item three, the new Chargers are a hoot to drive, all cops love horsepower. Roomy all day comfort. The newest 370 hp awd model is a tough act to follow.
Item four, that same department mentioned above has some new Fords and they are having issues already. Their chief says they are not well received by the deputies and are too cramped with equipment installed.
Note also that the smart depts IMO are using Tahoes and finding out their terrific resale is the best reason! May be the cheapest car ever, because they sell off so well...
This goes back a few years... I sell to fleets around the country. I had an appointment with the fleet guy at the Sacramento CHP fleet offices. Their parking lot was full of Crown Vics, I mean jammed to the gills in every corner. Ford had just announced getting rid of the CV a few months earlier. The CHP bought every one they could get their hands on. They made me laugh when they said some werent even going to be put into service for 12 months down the road.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
...Note also that the smart depts IMO are using Tahoes and finding out their terrific resale is the best reason!
May be the cheapest car ever, because they sell off so well.
+1
Seems many LEOs prefer the Tahoe PPV for its roominess and utility.
Lugging around gun holsters and other requisite gear during long shifts places a premium on those attributes.
If only civilians had a workaround to outfit theirs with similar hardware and programming upfitting possibilities.
http://www.gmfleet.com/police/chevy-tahoe-ppv.html
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/tahoe_ppv/2014.tab3.html
To our OP, the 'severe duty' from civil servants has exacerbated Taurus' durability challenges. They're no Crown Vic!
...Note also that the smart depts IMO are using Tahoes and finding out their terrific resale is the best reason!
May be the cheapest car ever, because they sell off so well.
+1
Seems many LEOs prefer the Tahoe PPV for its roominess and utility.
Lugging around gun holsters and other requisite gear during long shifts places a premium on those attributes.
If only civilians had a workaround to outfit theirs with similar hardware and programming upfitting possibilities.
http://www.gmfleet.com/police/chevy-tahoe-ppv.html
http://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/tahoe_ppv/2014.tab3.html
To our OP, the 'severe duty' from civil servants has exacerbated Taurus' durability challenges. They're no Crown Vic!
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
So much baloney.
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
1) It was not based on the Taurus or Focus platform
2) It did not have "edge" styling
3) It was not "trendy" or "hip" looking
4) No Eco-boast engines available for it
So much baloney.
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
1) It was not based on the Taurus or Focus platform
2) It did not have "edge" styling
3) It was not "trendy" or "hip" looking
4) No Eco-boast engines available for it
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Item three, the new Chargers are a hoot to drive, all cops love horsepower. Roomy all day comfort. The newest 370 hp awd model is a tough act to follow.
Interestingly, our city recently sent back an order of Chargers because Dodge sent them with the wrong engine. Our department ordered Pentastars and they got a shipment of Hemis.
Item three, the new Chargers are a hoot to drive, all cops love horsepower. Roomy all day comfort. The newest 370 hp awd model is a tough act to follow.
Interestingly, our city recently sent back an order of Chargers because Dodge sent them with the wrong engine. Our department ordered Pentastars and they got a shipment of Hemis.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
So much baloney.
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
1) It was not based on the Taurus or Focus platform
2) It did not have "edge" styling
3) It was not "trendy" or "hip" looking
4) No Eco-boast engines available for it
All probably true, but not what Ford said.
The sad fact was Ford was not selling enough units, even with the police business included.
Pure economics...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
So much baloney.
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
1) It was not based on the Taurus or Focus platform
2) It did not have "edge" styling
3) It was not "trendy" or "hip" looking
4) No Eco-boast engines available for it
All probably true, but not what Ford said.
The sad fact was Ford was not selling enough units, even with the police business included.
Pure economics...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
So much baloney.
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
1) It was not based on the Taurus or Focus platform
2) It did not have "edge" styling
3) It was not "trendy" or "hip" looking
4) No Eco-boast engines available for it
All probably true, but not what Ford said.
The sad fact was Ford was not selling enough units, even with the police business included.
I don't think they're mutually exclusive; I think the factors listed by Miller88 ARE the reasons that they weren't selling well, and pretty much only to fleets.
1) The Panther platform IS out-dated, and doesn't offer the space efficiency of newer platforms (even RWD ones).
2 & 3) Its styling is dated, ultra conservative, and doesn't speak to the younger crowd that most manufacturers have to chase to sustain their business.
4) They don't have modern powertrains. Ford was putting the 2-valve 4.6L in these things until the very end. It was a modern powertrain 2 decades ago (literally). 240 hp and 280 lb*ft of torque from a V-8 engine doesn't really cut it anymore, not when you can get that and more from a smaller and more efficient package. Ford didn't even use the 3-valve engine in them.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
So much baloney.
Item two, think for a minute about why Ford quit making the Crown Vic. Just think about it. Then tell me why they stopped.
1) It was not based on the Taurus or Focus platform
2) It did not have "edge" styling
3) It was not "trendy" or "hip" looking
4) No Eco-boast engines available for it
All probably true, but not what Ford said.
The sad fact was Ford was not selling enough units, even with the police business included.
I don't think they're mutually exclusive; I think the factors listed by Miller88 ARE the reasons that they weren't selling well, and pretty much only to fleets.
1) The Panther platform IS out-dated, and doesn't offer the space efficiency of newer platforms (even RWD ones).
2 & 3) Its styling is dated, ultra conservative, and doesn't speak to the younger crowd that most manufacturers have to chase to sustain their business.
4) They don't have modern powertrains. Ford was putting the 2-valve 4.6L in these things until the very end. It was a modern powertrain 2 decades ago (literally). 240 hp and 280 lb*ft of torque from a V-8 engine doesn't really cut it anymore, not when you can get that and more from a smaller and more efficient package. Ford didn't even use the 3-valve engine in them.
Originally Posted By: synthetic_crazy
Since the new Taurus Police Packages have been on the roads for a few months now, have any of you heard how they are holding up? (I realize most probably have less than 100k miles) I am curious about their durability in terms of the FWD/AWD drive-train. Also, the engine compartment in the Taurus looks pretty compact versus the openness of the 4.6L Crown Vic, I wonder how this will effect heat dissipation.
Ford certainly has the experience to build a great police package vehicle as demonstrated by the Crown Vic. Time will tell.....
I've been driving one every day at work (law enforcement) for the last 6 months, no issues at all with the drive train. By far the smoothest engine/drivetrain in my twenty years of law enforcement, I've driven Chevy Caprices, Chevy luminas(horrid), Chevy Impalas (07-14), Crown Vic's (didn't care for)Dodge Chargers(terrible) Ford Fusion Hybrids (like a lot) Nissan Altima hybrids plus vans and trucks (Chevys and fords). I have small issues with the car, blind spots, seats not as comfortable as the Impalas or Fusions which dominant my department, and the fact that they cheap'd out on the options (no auto headlights, cheap radio head unit) Also the information display on the main instrument cluster is pretty useless.
Since the new Taurus Police Packages have been on the roads for a few months now, have any of you heard how they are holding up? (I realize most probably have less than 100k miles) I am curious about their durability in terms of the FWD/AWD drive-train. Also, the engine compartment in the Taurus looks pretty compact versus the openness of the 4.6L Crown Vic, I wonder how this will effect heat dissipation.
Ford certainly has the experience to build a great police package vehicle as demonstrated by the Crown Vic. Time will tell.....
I've been driving one every day at work (law enforcement) for the last 6 months, no issues at all with the drive train. By far the smoothest engine/drivetrain in my twenty years of law enforcement, I've driven Chevy Caprices, Chevy luminas(horrid), Chevy Impalas (07-14), Crown Vic's (didn't care for)Dodge Chargers(terrible) Ford Fusion Hybrids (like a lot) Nissan Altima hybrids plus vans and trucks (Chevys and fords). I have small issues with the car, blind spots, seats not as comfortable as the Impalas or Fusions which dominant my department, and the fact that they cheap'd out on the options (no auto headlights, cheap radio head unit) Also the information display on the main instrument cluster is pretty useless.
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The City I live in is going to a mostly Explorer based fleet. They were previously a mostly Crown Vic fleet. They have 2 Chargers, and they get rotated around because nobody likes the visibility out of them, though they are fast. They chose the Explorer over the Taurus as the officers did not like the size of the drivers compartment on the Taurus.
Sheriff's office is also going all Explorer (previously all Crown Vic).
And the reason the Vic died is because all that it was selling was for LEO's and Taxi use. Not enough to justify keeping them around. And, we all have to face it, it was an obsolete package compared to its competitors. A time tested and durable package, yes, but outdated just the same...
Sheriff's office is also going all Explorer (previously all Crown Vic).
And the reason the Vic died is because all that it was selling was for LEO's and Taxi use. Not enough to justify keeping them around. And, we all have to face it, it was an obsolete package compared to its competitors. A time tested and durable package, yes, but outdated just the same...
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
And the reason the Vic died is because all that it was selling was for LEO's and Taxi use. Not enough to justify keeping them around. And, we all have to face it, it was an obsolete package compared to its competitors. A time tested and durable package, yes, but outdated just the same...
It was a similar fate that the Ranger faced. Old, outdated, and no real upgrade path.
Ford has done away for the 4.6. The only things that used them was the E-series (gone), Expedition, and the Crown Vic. Expedition went to the Ecoboost, the E-Series is gone and the CV is gone. Made no sense to keep the engine line running for the small volume.
Same with the transmission. A 4 speed that was used by nothing in the fleet.
They could have put an Ecoboost in there. But the engineering time to do such would have been crazy. Then the recertification, the EPA, crash tests, etc. Again no $$ in it.
The architecture was solid and refined over 30+ years. But it was done. People don't want BOF cars any more and it was the only such car made.
So yeah, it was an ancient platform that had ancient power train and everyone moved on. As Carbon Motors found out, designing a car solely for the LEO market costs a lot.
It was a niche vehicle plain and simple. They made another to fill in the niche. Time will tell if it was the right move. The Taurus platform is cramped for space and if they raise the roof a little bit and maybe work on the packaging it would be better.
And the reason the Vic died is because all that it was selling was for LEO's and Taxi use. Not enough to justify keeping them around. And, we all have to face it, it was an obsolete package compared to its competitors. A time tested and durable package, yes, but outdated just the same...
It was a similar fate that the Ranger faced. Old, outdated, and no real upgrade path.
Ford has done away for the 4.6. The only things that used them was the E-series (gone), Expedition, and the Crown Vic. Expedition went to the Ecoboost, the E-Series is gone and the CV is gone. Made no sense to keep the engine line running for the small volume.
Same with the transmission. A 4 speed that was used by nothing in the fleet.
They could have put an Ecoboost in there. But the engineering time to do such would have been crazy. Then the recertification, the EPA, crash tests, etc. Again no $$ in it.
The architecture was solid and refined over 30+ years. But it was done. People don't want BOF cars any more and it was the only such car made.
So yeah, it was an ancient platform that had ancient power train and everyone moved on. As Carbon Motors found out, designing a car solely for the LEO market costs a lot.
It was a niche vehicle plain and simple. They made another to fill in the niche. Time will tell if it was the right move. The Taurus platform is cramped for space and if they raise the roof a little bit and maybe work on the packaging it would be better.
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Local Departments in many surrounding towns using Chargers, ditto the County Deputies. Talked to one when car was being seriviced at local Dodge store, I know the techs and happened to stop in and Deputy was there.
He told me the Chargers are much better crusiers, more comfortable, better gas mileage, safer than the Crown Vics. He told me the state police in maine are running the new Fords as they retire out the Crown Vics, and having all kinds of issues, said he knows a few freinds on the force and they tell him they are junk.
He said they based their decision on the Michigan State Police Test results and went with Chargers based on the performance.
As he said tests dont lie!
He told me the Chargers are much better crusiers, more comfortable, better gas mileage, safer than the Crown Vics. He told me the state police in maine are running the new Fords as they retire out the Crown Vics, and having all kinds of issues, said he knows a few freinds on the force and they tell him they are junk.
He said they based their decision on the Michigan State Police Test results and went with Chargers based on the performance.
As he said tests dont lie!
I believe the main reason police dept's are going with the Explorer PI is for ticketing.
Here in CA the hands-free law is in 100% full swing, (i.e. you can't even touch your phone).
With the explorer, LEO's can now look into your car (cuz they're higher up) and if you have phone in hand, your other hand will have a ticket.
I honestly believe that's why they're going with the SUV over sedan. Because we all know it's definetely NOT for gas mileage!!
There's a couple of small towns where I live around and their police force uses chevy Malibu's. Given, not much happens in that rich little town, but I commend them for going with a more fuel efficient car.
With the extra height, CHP can now zap you from further away with their laser radar guns.
Personally, the change is all about how many more tickets they can write.
You'd think with gas prices going up, the move to more fuel efficient vehicles would be a consideration.
Here in CA the hands-free law is in 100% full swing, (i.e. you can't even touch your phone).
With the explorer, LEO's can now look into your car (cuz they're higher up) and if you have phone in hand, your other hand will have a ticket.
I honestly believe that's why they're going with the SUV over sedan. Because we all know it's definetely NOT for gas mileage!!
There's a couple of small towns where I live around and their police force uses chevy Malibu's. Given, not much happens in that rich little town, but I commend them for going with a more fuel efficient car.
With the extra height, CHP can now zap you from further away with their laser radar guns.
Personally, the change is all about how many more tickets they can write.
You'd think with gas prices going up, the move to more fuel efficient vehicles would be a consideration.
Originally Posted By: EricF
I believe the main reason police dept's are going with the Explorer PI is for ticketing.
Here in CA the hands-free law is in 100% full swing, (i.e. you can't even touch your phone).
With the explorer, LEO's can now look into your car (cuz they're higher up) and if you have phone in hand, your other hand will have a ticket.
I honestly believe that's why they're going with the SUV over sedan. Because we all know it's definetely NOT for gas mileage!!
There's a couple of small towns where I live around and their police force uses chevy Malibu's. Given, not much happens in that rich little town, but I commend them for going with a more fuel efficient car.
With the extra height, CHP can now zap you from further away with their laser radar guns.
Personally, the change is all about how many more tickets they can write.
You'd think with gas prices going up, the move to more fuel efficient vehicles would be a consideration.
I'll bet Ford is in on it too. They probably developed the Explorer specifically so departments in CA could write more cell phone tickets.
I believe the main reason police dept's are going with the Explorer PI is for ticketing.
Here in CA the hands-free law is in 100% full swing, (i.e. you can't even touch your phone).
With the explorer, LEO's can now look into your car (cuz they're higher up) and if you have phone in hand, your other hand will have a ticket.
I honestly believe that's why they're going with the SUV over sedan. Because we all know it's definetely NOT for gas mileage!!
There's a couple of small towns where I live around and their police force uses chevy Malibu's. Given, not much happens in that rich little town, but I commend them for going with a more fuel efficient car.
With the extra height, CHP can now zap you from further away with their laser radar guns.
Personally, the change is all about how many more tickets they can write.
You'd think with gas prices going up, the move to more fuel efficient vehicles would be a consideration.
I'll bet Ford is in on it too. They probably developed the Explorer specifically so departments in CA could write more cell phone tickets.
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