01 Chevy Prizm 1.8L 1ZZFE, 5800mi, Mobil 5000 5w30

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Would anyone recommend using diesel oil? I've just started the Rotella 5w40.

It would be fine to use, but the benefit is debatable. There is nothing wrong with the detergency of an HDEO, despite calcium and magnesium numbers. That's a red herring that's been bandied about for a very long time.

I don't like using synthetic in a vehicle that consumes a lot of oil, due to cost. Of course, if the brand and viscosity you select don't happen to burn oil, that point is moot. On the other hand, if I had an oil burner and it was summer, I'd be grabbing a pail of 15w-40, which would be both cost effective and handy.

 

[Bulletbling]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Would anyone recommend using diesel oil?

I would not.
Take a look on VOA of Rotella. It has significant amount of Zn and Ph, but not too many Ca/Mg. You don't need additional wear protection, you need strong cleaning ability.
I would use Liqui Moly engine flush (15 minutes idle and drain the oil), make no more than 3000 miles OCI and, probably, have the Auto-RX treatment.
If you don't worry about what other people think about you, add a half of quart of ATF into a sump and change oil couple of weeks later. This is a old school method of engine cleaning, which used to work.

P.S. Many years ago I used a mix of 75% of engine oil and 25% of diesel fuel (or kerosine) to clean engine of my 1979 Lada. It runs well even now, but not in this country, of course.


What elements in a VOA should I look for to mean cleaning ability? (I used Mobil 1 5w30 for the original fill at last oil change and have used 5 quarts of MaxLife 10w40 since...now onto Rotella 5w40 with some MMO in the crank added every now and then) Which ones mean more protection? It would be good to know what each do in an oil so when I look at these VOA'S I have an idea of what they're best for.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Would anyone recommend using diesel oil?

I would not.
Take a look on VOA of Rotella. It has significant amount of Zn and Ph, but not too many Ca/Mg. You don't need additional wear protection, you need strong cleaning ability.
I would use Liqui Moly engine flush (15 minutes idle and drain the oil), make no more than 3000 miles OCI and, probably, have the Auto-RX treatment.
If you don't worry about what other people think about you, add a half of quart of ATF into a sump and change oil couple of weeks later. This is a old school method of engine cleaning, which used to work.

P.S. Many years ago I used a mix of 75% of engine oil and 25% of diesel fuel (or kerosine) to clean engine of my 1979 Lada. It runs well even now, but not in this country, of course.


What elements in a VOA should I look for to mean cleaning ability? (I used Mobil 1 5w30 for the original fill at last oil change and have used 5 quarts of MaxLife 10w40 since...now onto Rotella 5w40 with some MMO in the crank added every now and then) Which ones mean more protection? It would be good to know what each do in an oil so when I look at these VOA'S I have an idea of what they're best for.




Forget looking at voa and forget using a costly synthetic with that kind of consumption.
If it's the rings that are coked up with deposits and causing the consumption I suggest doing a piston soak.
I do them using mmo sucked thru a vacuum line on a warm engine. Wait 20 minutes then go for a high revving highway cruise getting the rpm into the 4000+ range for 10 or 15 minutes,then do the mmo again.
Use half a quart each time,sucking the mmo slowly in thru the vacuum line.
Then I'd buy a pail of cheap hdeo 15w-40 and a can or 2 of liqui-moly motor oil saver and change the oil, adding one of the cans of motor oil saver.
Add the other can after about 1000 miles or so. It's an ester and will help clean the rings.
Limit the oci to around 3000 miles or so. At 2500 miles add a quart of mmo or seafoam to the oil for the last part of the interval.
Do that a few times and it should help.
The motor oil saver is also a preventative measure to prevent possible gasket weeping due to the extreme cleaning going on.
That would be my plan.

 

[Apollo14]

If you're going to have it fixed then forget the additives, find some 50 weight oil and start topping up with that. Step up to a 60 weight if you have to.

Get this fixed before the cold weather begins.

At your rate of loss, oil changes, UOAs and additives are more money down the drain.

Stop that nonsense, top up with oil that minimizes consumptiom and put the money you save towards the repair.

After the repair, run a major name brand full synthetic in the specified viscosity and do a liquid moly flush every oil change.

 

[Bulletbling]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Would anyone recommend using diesel oil?

I would not.
Take a look on VOA of Rotella. It has significant amount of Zn and Ph, but not too many Ca/Mg. You don't need additional wear protection, you need strong cleaning ability.
I would use Liqui Moly engine flush (15 minutes idle and drain the oil), make no more than 3000 miles OCI and, probably, have the Auto-RX treatment.
If you don't worry about what other people think about you, add a half of quart of ATF into a sump and change oil couple of weeks later. This is a old school method of engine cleaning, which used to work.

P.S. Many years ago I used a mix of 75% of engine oil and 25% of diesel fuel (or kerosine) to clean engine of my 1979 Lada. It runs well even now, but not in this country, of course.


What elements in a VOA should I look for to mean cleaning ability? (I used Mobil 1 5w30 for the original fill at last oil change and have used 5 quarts of MaxLife 10w40 since...now onto Rotella 5w40 with some MMO in the crank added every now and then) Which ones mean more protection? It would be good to know what each do in an oil so when I look at these VOA'S I have an idea of what they're best for.




Forget looking at voa and forget using a costly synthetic with that kind of consumption.
If it's the rings that are coked up with deposits and causing the consumption I suggest doing a piston soak.
I do them using mmo sucked thru a vacuum line on a warm engine. Wait 20 minutes then go for a high revving highway cruise getting the rpm into the 4000+ range for 10 or 15 minutes,then do the mmo again.
Use half a quart each time,sucking the mmo slowly in thru the vacuum line.
Then I'd buy a pail of cheap hdeo 15w-40 and a can or 2 of liqui-moly motor oil saver and change the oil, adding one of the cans of motor oil saver.
Add the other can after about 1000 miles or so. It's an ester and will help clean the rings.
Limit the oci to around 3000 miles or so. At 2500 miles add a quart of mmo or seafoam to the oil for the last part of the interval.
Do that a few times and it should help.
The motor oil saver is also a preventative measure to prevent possible gasket weeping due to the extreme cleaning going on.
That would be my plan.

I have already done a couple of SeaFoam soaks into a vacuum line and still no difference in oil burning. The piston rings and oil control holes are mostly stuck/blocked and I dont know if anything is going to undo that considering I read someone who had this same engine do a whole motor soak for a few days without the oil release holes becoming unclogged.

Spending the $20-$25 every 2,500-3,000 miles on synthetic oil isn't a huge deal for me because I believe that synthetic oil will allow less wear on the engine and clean it better considering the miles, but what brand of oil would anyone who'd care to comment recommend? I know MaxLife is a good one, but what are some that have a good cleaning ability (high in calcium and magnesium I believe)?

Originally Posted By: Apollo14
If you're going to have it fixed then forget the additives, find some 50 weight oil and start topping up with that. Step up to a 60 weight if you have to.

Get this fixed before the cold weather begins.

At your rate of loss, oil changes, UOAs and additives are more money down the drain.

Stop that nonsense, top up with oil that minimizes consumptiom and put the money you save towards the repair.

After the repair, run a major name brand full synthetic in the specified viscosity and do a liquid moly flush every oil change.


I'm not sure when I will be doing a repair if at all because the right tailight area is all smashed in from me getting hit in the rear by an econoline...it would be a lot easier for me to see spending the $1k quote to have new piston rings, extra oil release holes drilled, new valve stem seals, and head gaskets, etc. if the car wasnt all damaged like it is. Would going to a 50 or 60 weight be a good idea? I assumed something that heavy would put unneeded wear on the engine. I was actually going to put some 0w20 or 5w20 in the 1ZZFE 1.8L for the winter because Toyota has now approved the 20 weight for it and I haven't tried a lighter weight oil yet (maybe through some reasoning no one has though of, it will reduce the consumption)..

 

[Apollo14]

Since it's a delivery vehicle, it's always running hot, so no the thicker oil won't create more wear.

I doubt that synthetic oil is giving you any measurable protection from wear, so the extra you're spending on it is a waste.

All that soaking etc is stronger than motor oil detergency. So if soaking isn't working, forget about any motor oil cleaning anything soon. Don't even bother trying to figure out if synthetic cleans more or if Maxlife cleans more. Any differences are a drop in the ocean compared to the problem you have.

If you're not fixing it, you're going to be living with it, in which case heavier oil is what you need to reduce consumption.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
What elements in a VOA should I look for to mean cleaning ability?

Ca, Ca+Mg, could be Na for Valvoline and few other.
Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Which ones mean more protection?

Ph, Zn, Mo.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Forget looking at voa and forget using a costly synthetic with that kind of consumption.
If it's the rings that are coked up with deposits and causing the consumption I suggest doing a piston soak.

Agree.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I do them using mmo sucked thru a vacuum line on a warm engine. Wait 20 minutes then go for a high revving highway cruise getting the rpm into the 4000+ range for 10 or 15 minutes,then do the mmo again.
Use half a quart each time,sucking the mmo slowly in thru the vacuum line.

I am not sure that MMO is supposed to do that. Seafoam would be better, IMO. But this won't help to free piston rings.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Then I'd buy a pail of cheap hdeo 15w-40 and a can or 2 of liqui-moly motor oil saver and change the oil, adding one of the cans of motor oil saver.

This makes sense, IMO. I would use it together with LM Engine Flush.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Add the other can after about 1000 miles or so. It's an ester and will help clean the rings. Limit the oci to around 3000 miles or so. At 2500 miles add a quart of mmo or seafoam to the oil for the last part of the interval.

Sounds good, IMO.

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling

Spending the $20-$25 every 2,500-3,000 miles on synthetic oil isn't a huge deal for me because I believe that synthetic oil will allow less wear on the engine and clean it better considering the miles, but what brand of oil would anyone who'd care to comment recommend?

You don't need synthetic oil. Moreover, I am pretty sure that syn oil worse in your case: oil consumption will increase.
IMO, brand A here is equal of brand B. Your engine requires a cure. I would soak piston rings (this is easy since you have 4 cylinders, not V6 or V8), and/or use a good flushing liquid on each OCI. Cleaning ability of regular oil is not enough.

 

[Bulletbling]

I am a pizza delivery driver so i start my engine several times per day and a 15w seems like itd cause a lot of wear for what i do but ive read that my 1.8L 1ZZFE doesnt really wear out.

What kind of HDEO 15W40 should I use? I saw the Super 1300 15W40 Mobil oil at Walmart for a little over $10 per gallon. Instead of using the lubro moly, would the motor medic gunk engine flush stuff available at Walmart work well too?

Lastly, would you still recommend such a heavy oil in the Michigan winters I go through? I was going to use 0W20 or 5W20...

Thanks for answering all of my questions. I am sure you will be helping someone in the future who stumbles across this thread as well.

 

[Apollo14]

Forget the additives, forget the flush. Sell your car and buy one of these. I think for you, this is the best option.

 

[Bulletbling]

That may be a good option... exercise is always a good thing!

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
What kind of HDEO 15W40 should I use? I saw the Super 1300 15W40 Mobil oil at Walmart for a little over $10 per gallon.

Yes, this should be fine. But I would prefer any mineral 10W40. It will let you go through all Michigan winter without any problems. I am pretty sure that winter temperatures in Michigan are not below -20C.

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Instead of using the lubro moly, would the motor medic gunk engine flush stuff available at Walmart work well too?

This is not a best thing, IMO, but still better than nothing.

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Lastly, would you still recommend such a heavy oil in the Michigan winters I go through? I was going to use 0W20 or 5W20...

IMO, this is a marketing, if you are not in Siberia. I was using 10Wxx in my 1979 Lada when temperatures were below -25C. So any 5W30 is MUCH more than enough. Even 10W40 is OK. BTW, I was living pretty close to Siberia, so I know what am I talking about ;-)

And if I was you I would add 3/4 quart of Dextron ATF into sump. Old school methods are not always bad ;-)

 

[Bulletbling]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
What kind of HDEO 15W40 should I use? I saw the Super 1300 15W40 Mobil oil at Walmart for a little over $10 per gallon.

Yes, this should be fine. But I would prefer any mineral 10W40. It will let you go through all Michigan winter without any problems. I am pretty sure that winter temperatures in Michigan are not below -20C.

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Instead of using the lubro moly, would the motor medic gunk engine flush stuff available at Walmart work well too?

This is not a best thing, IMO, but still better than nothing.

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Lastly, would you still recommend such a heavy oil in the Michigan winters I go through? I was going to use 0W20 or 5W20...

IMO, this is a marketing, if you are not in Siberia. I was using 10Wxx in my 1979 Lada when temperatures were below -25C. So any 5W30 is MUCH more than enough. Even 10W40 is OK. BTW, I was living pretty close to Siberia, so I know what am I talking about ;-)

And if I was you I would add 3/4 quart of Dextron ATF into sump. Old school methods are not always bad ;-)



Thanks much. I will go ahead and get some 10w40 for the winter and then for next summer a pail of 15w40 if it offers a lot of savings over the 10w40 by the gallon.

How long should I keep the atf in the sump? Some say keep it in there for certain amount of miles or at each oci and some say let it idle with it in there then flush it.

Is there a better engine flush product than the motor medic gunk brand or something similar to the lubro moly I can get in an autozone, advanced auto, oreilly auto, or carquest? I prefer not to have to order if i can get something similar in store and not pay shipping. There is no Napa or ac Delco near me.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
How long should I keep the atf in the sump? Some say keep it in there for certain amount of miles or at each oci and some say let it idle with it in there then flush it.

If you deliver pizza, you probably drive a lot. So I would stay with 3000 miles OCI and leave ATF in a sump till you change the oil. How big is the sump? If it about 4 quarts, than 3.25 quarts of oil and 0.75 quart of ATF is OK, IMO.

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
Is there a better engine flush product than the motor medic gunk brand or something similar to the lubro moly I can get in an autozone, advanced auto, oreilly auto, or carquest? I prefer not to have to order if i can get something similar in store and not pay shipping. There is no Napa or ac Delco near me.

Liqui Moly I saw just in Napa. So I am not sure that it is available for you. But ATF and than Gunk should do their job. Of course, single usage of these chemicals won't solve your problem. But if you see that oil consumption is reduced, you are on right way.

I am not asking to follow me, but my favorite way to clean engine deposits in 1990th was a 75%/25% mixture of engine oil and diesel fuel (or kerosine). Engine shines as a cat's bottom ;-) But this would be definitely overkill for you. This method could destroy your engine too.

 

[Apollo14]

Bulletbling, I hope you realize that you are a snake oil salesperson's dream customer.

For example, a little research on this site will lead you to expert opinion on why ATF will not help.

ATF is low detergent. It worked once upon a time as a flush because it thinned oil in a time when most oil was thick.

Seriously, if you are not going to fix this, go with thick oil. If you are topping up as much as you are, you don't need to do 3000 mile oil changes.

If thick oil slows down your consumption significantly, then yes you will need to do oil changes and then maybe give a flush a try.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: Apollo14

For example, a little research on this site will lead you to expert opinion on why ATF will not help.
ATF is low detergent. It worked once upon a time as a flush because it thinned oil in a time when most oil was thick.

Not quite right ;-)
ATF has 0W20 viscosity. Not too thing, huh? Just as regular motor oil. Also it has less additives. How does it work? Hm-m-m, how mixture of engine oil and kerosine works? How Seafoam works? How MMO works?

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: timeau
Originally Posted By: Apollo14

For example, a little research on this site will lead you to expert opinion on why ATF will not help.
ATF is low detergent. It worked once upon a time as a flush because it thinned oil in a time when most oil was thick.

Not quite right ;-)
ATF has 0W20 viscosity. Not too thing, huh? Just as regular motor oil. Also it has less additives. How does it work? Hm-m-m, how mixture of engine oil and kerosine works? How Seafoam works? How MMO works?

Your English is very hard to understand but the previous poster is correct. Back when people used to recommend ATF to thin oil, 0w20 wasn't being used with the ATF mixtures, it was mostly 10w40 or 20w50 which are much more viscous.


In 1979 the engine would start fine with 10w40, but you didn't see the probably 200 ppm+ metal wear in used oil then that we can see on these older engines now running better oils.

How long did your engines last in 1979 on 10w40 before there wasn't enough bearing material to keep oil pressure?

How long do modern engines last on 20 and 30 grade oils?

Good luck getting any 70s motor to live as long as a modern Toyota engine.

 

[timeau]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Your English is very hard to understand

Really? Which sentence? May be not enough "cool!", "ye-e-ah!" and "bro"?

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Back when people used to recommend ATF to thin oil, 0w20 wasn't being used with the ATF mixtures, it was mostly 10w40 or 20w50 which are much more viscous.

You get "F" for attentiveness.

I recommended to use 10W40, not 0W20. So what is the difference?

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
In 1979 the engine would start fine with 10w40, but you didn't see the probably 200 ppm+ metal wear in used oil then that we can see on these older engines now running better oils.

Who cares about these PPMs if engine still runs fine and have more than 300k kilometers?

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
How long did your engines last in 1979 on 10w40 before there wasn't enough bearing material to keep oil pressure?

300k km and original bearings. Good enough?

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
How long do modern engines last on 20 and 30 grade oils?

Depends. Use trash oil, don't change it, and you'll have 50k. It is ridiculous when 75k+ miles engines considered as "high mileage".

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Good luck getting any 70s motor to live as long as a modern Toyota engine.

One more "F". This is a 2001 car, so it is 13-14 years old. Is it "modern" where 0W20 is recommended?

 

[Apollo14]

^ Did you pay attention where the OP said the engine had been back spec'd to xw20?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Bulletbling
I am a pizza delivery driver so i start my engine several times per day and a 15w seems like itd cause a lot of wear for what i do but ive read that my 1.8L 1ZZFE doesnt really wear out.

The engine isn't going to get significantly cold, so I wouldn't worry about that. Perhaps a 10w-30 HDEO would be a good compromise when things are a bit chillier. Mobil Delvac, Shell Rotella, or Chevron Delo, or any other HDEO would work just fine. The only concern might be the winter. If you want to try something a bit different, maybe a 5w-30 high mileage order might be worth a shot, and it'll be cheaper than synthetic.

 

[901Memphis]

Keep living in 1979. Lubrication is technology and evolves.