Choosing between 0W40 and 5W40

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Your vehicle calls for a 5w-30. The manufacture did all kinds of testing from extreme cold to extreme heat along with I'm sure not limited to severe idle time as well. All with 5w-30 for which they recommend.

I would go with a 5w-30 that meets all the specs outlined in your owners manual.

The dealer probably went with the 5w-40 because it was the least expensive oil that they have and us in most of their customers vehicles. They basically are like most business and trying to make as much money as possible.

5w-30 and all will be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Let's take a real world example. If I use 5W-30 and I take a ride to Italy during the summer. The fact that I am using an oil with lower viscosity during high temperature in traffic jam will probably do more damage to engine than 5W-40, correct?

No.
 
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The 5W-40 will be thicker base oil and have less viscosity modifier.

Maybe compared to a 0w-40, but not compared to a 5w-30.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
The 5W-40 will be thicker base oil and have less viscosity modifier.

Maybe compared to a 0w-40, but not compared to a 5w-30.


Not sure why you think this

A 5W-30 A3/B4 (3.5hths) will have very similar base oil viscosity to a 5W-40, sometimes they can be higher. Polymer solid treat is also often similar, but can be lower - depending on the VM type.

In any case any of the 5W will give robust performance over the ODI.

The difference in kv100 between a 5W-30 and 5W-40 will be often less than 1.4 cSt
 
After reading your comments (thanks a lot guys!) and doing some research on what Toyota and Nissan recommends for my engines I decided to go with 5W-30 instead of 0W-40 or 5W-40.

If I look my local stores I see several options which suits my engines:

1. HC SYNTHESE Castrol MAGNATEC 5W-30 C3

2. VOLLSYNTHESE Valvoline SynPower ENV C2 5W–30

3. VOLLSYNTHESE Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 AV 5W-30

In your opinion, should I do any preference to any of these choices? Personally I've heard about Castrol and used it for a long time. I know little about Valvoline and Petronas but I am tempted since they are VOLLSYNTHESE ...

Any opinions?

Thanks!
 
volodymyr, you've already said that 5w30 is specified, now if you want to do fine tuning you need to look at more data.

1) You should also have a temperature chart. We know your lower temperature is moderate so 0w or 5w is fine. But look at the recommendations for the upper temperature. If you see something that says switch to xw40 above 40c, and you expect to see 40c reasonably often, then make a decision to go with xw40 instead of xw30.

2) However, European xw30 oils come in many many flavors. There are xw30 oils with HTHS of 3.5 and above to satisfy requirements of German manufacturers. Mercedes, BMW and Audi pretty much allow the use of xw30 oils so long as they meet their specs for HTHS of 3.5 or greater.

To put that into context, a xw30 oil can have a minimum HTHS of 2.9. xw20 is in the range of 2.6-2.9.

So you see that some European xw30 oils, those that meet the standards for German manufacturers are very much at the thicker end of the range that the "30" grade allows. Other 30 grade oils could be much thinner and closer to what is run in Japanese and US engines.

You've already mentioned the ACEA grades that are acceptable. A1/B1 & A5/B5 allow HTHS of 2.9-3.5. A3/B3 & A3/B4 allow 3.5+.

In other words, Nissan are saying run whatever 5w30 you'd like so long as it meets ACEA specs.

That's why I originally said buy the cheapest full syn name brand ACEA approved 5w30 you can find.

Now, one consideration is going to be how hard you run this oil. For sure, the full syn oils with HTHS above 3.5 which have the most certifications are the toughest oils. So you would go for this if you want maximum protection over a long oil change interval.

However, if your driving is not extreme, then given the wide range of oils available to you to use, going for something at the other end of the HTHS scale, so long as it is full syn, major name with ACEA approval, you will also be ok.

Really though, you're overthinking this (and so am I now). This is not a permanent decision. Make a choice, maybe with a midpoint HTHS, get a UOA, and then decide next time if you want to go heavier or lighter.
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
After reading your comments (thanks a lot guys!) and doing some research on what Toyota and Nissan recommends for my engines I decided to go with 5W-30 instead of 0W-40 or 5W-40.

If I look my local stores I see several options which suits my engines:

1. HC SYNTHESE Castrol MAGNATEC 5W-30 C3

2. VOLLSYNTHESE Valvoline SynPower ENV C2 5W–30

3. VOLLSYNTHESE Petronas SYNTIUM 5000 AV 5W-30

In your opinion, should I do any preference to any of these choices? Personally I've heard about Castrol and used it for a long time. I know little about Valvoline and Petronas but I am tempted since they are VOLLSYNTHESE ...

Any opinions?

Thanks!


Great, you've kind of gone the route of my very long and now unnecessary post (thanks!).

What are the HTHS of these oils? Can you link to product data sheets for each one? That would be best so we can see all the data.

Again, don't get too hung up on full synthetic vs hc synthetic.
 
Of the three,
The Castrol C3 has to have an HTHS above 3.5 to meet C3, and low SAPS.
The Valvoline C2 is also low SAPS, and has to have a minimum HTHS of 2.9 (no upper/equals to limit).
The Petronas is an A3/B4, regular SAPS, minimum 3.5HTHS.

Now there's a new can of worms opened, what level of SAPS "protection" do you want.

The Petronas has all the bells and whistles, the Castol has their UMA ester, and the Valvoline is errrmmm...Valvoline.

My car, I'd probably use the Castrol...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Another mfg recommendation that just creates confusion, in my opinion. A1 and A5 are completely different specs from A3, for example.

Yep, that does provide some pretty broad options, doesn't it?
 
Shannow,

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Of the three,

My car, I'd probably use the Castrol...



Would you choose Castrol Edge 5W-30 over Magnatec 5W-30 C3? I can see that both do have ACEA C3, however, Magnatec seems to also have some other specifications and I assume Magnatec is inferior to Edge?
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Shannow,

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Of the three,

My car, I'd probably use the Castrol...



Would you choose Castrol Edge 5W-30 over Magnatec 5W-30 C3? I can see that both do have ACEA C3, however, Magnatec seems to also have some other specifications and I assume Magnatec is inferior to Edge?

Edge is better.
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Hello to everyone,

My car Nissan Qashqai 2010 with MR20DE engine is coming to an end in it's warranty period and I am starting to think about changing the oil myself and not using the official dealership services.



It should be noted that since your Nissan is a gasoline engine (MR20DE) and it is not direct injected (to my knowledge), then you can in fact use any ACEA A3/B4 oil as opposed to a C3 oil. The C3 oils were primarily introduced for protection of diesel emissions devices such as DPF's and catalysts. In the parts of Europe where the gasoline fuel is ultra-low sulphur and where ethanol is not used, then C3 oils can generally be used interchangeably with A3 oils in gasoline engines.

In any case, if you do prefer the higher starting TBN of an A3 oil, then you can look for any 0W30 / 5W30 / 0W40 that is ACEA A3/B4 rated. That should definitely cover you over an extended drain interval of 15,000+ km as specified by Nissan.
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
Apollo14,

Originally Posted By: Apollo14
What does Nissan specify? That's far more important than 0w or 5w.


In owner manual Nissan recommends:

Viscosity: "5W30 and if it is not possible to obtain, determine viscosity by looking at temperature diagram"

Oil specification: "ACEA A1/B1 A3/B3, A3/B4, A5/B5, C2 or C3"

As you can see, our Nissan dealers violated the recommended 5W30 viscosity rule and put 5w40
smile.gif




Also, just as a side note, if you do refer to the temperature diagram in your owner's manual, then you should see that Nissan generally allows for 30 or 40 grade oils, although 30 grade is preferred.
 
I'm still kind of unclear regarding the answer to the original question, 0w or 5w better for an engine ?

I just went through a similar decision and chose 0w (0-40GC) for the upcoming PA fall and winter, my concern was the same thing...

Is 5w better due to increased PSI at start or worse because its heavier,
on the other hand
Is ow better due to quicker flow rate or worse due to lower ability to maintain coverage ?

Please excuse my improper terminology....... I guess I just need a bit of clarification, please don't give me the automated "what the manual calls for" response, Its my understanding we are all here to dig a bit deeper than OE recommendations to find or verify the best solution.
 
il_signore97,

Originally Posted By: il_signore97
volodymyr said:
Hello to everyone,

[...]

In any case, if you do prefer the higher starting TBN of an A3 oil, then you can look for any 0W30 / 5W30 / 0W40 that is ACEA A3/B4 rated. That should definitely cover you over an extended drain interval of 15,000+ km as specified by Nissan.



Thanks for your input. My dilemma is actually very simple. The price difference between A3/B4 and C3 is negligible (1 USD diff per liter) so I want to take the best oil possible.

Overall, I have two hesitations:

1. Since price diff is very small I am choosing between Castrol MAGNATEC 5W-30 C3 and CASTROL
EDGE FST 5W-30. Most of you folks, do tend to suggest me to buy Edge, however I can see that Edge 5W-30 is not Vollsynthetik.

2. I can buy Vollsynthetik Castrol EDGE Titanium FST 0W-30 however this is not 5W-30, but 0W-30. And most of you say that since Nissan recommends 5W-30 I should stick with it.

Which one is better? Following Nissan's recommendation and using 5W-30 or buying Titanium FST Vollsynthetik but 0W-30?
 
wsar10,

Originally Posted By: wsar10


[...]

I just went through a similar decision and chose 0w (0-40GC) for the upcoming PA fall and winter, my concern was the same thing...

[...]



Which one did you take? Edge FST?
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
wsar10,

Originally Posted By: wsar10


[...]

I just went through a similar decision and chose 0w (0-40GC) for the upcoming PA fall and winter, my concern was the same thing...

[...]



Which one did you take? Edge FST?
smile.gif


Over here, the 0w-40 is just "Edge", no FST.

P1000235.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete


Over here, the 0w-40 is just "Edge", no FST.



Amazing prices. My Nissan dealer charges more or less the same price but for 1 liter (20 CHF). And the price of Edge in supermarket is 38 CHF (I guess around 42 USD) per liter.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: wsar10
I'm still kind of unclear regarding the answer to the original question, 0w or 5w better for an engine ?

I just went through a similar decision and chose 0w (0-40GC) for the upcoming PA fall and winter, my concern was the same thing...

Is 5w better due to increased PSI at start or worse because its heavier,
on the other hand
Is ow better due to quicker flow rate or worse due to lower ability to maintain coverage ?

Please excuse my improper terminology....... I guess I just need a bit of clarification, please don't give me the automated "what the manual calls for" response, Its my understanding we are all here to dig a bit deeper than OE recommendations to find or verify the best solution.



There is never a simple answer to this question, because the SAE grading system is inherently hard to fully understand. To put it in the most simplistic terms, if your vehicle requires a 30 grade oil, then a 0W30, 5W30, 10W30, etc will satisfy the requirements of your engine at operating temperature equally (notwithstanding the differences in quality of oil and different brands / types available).

The biggest difference between 10W, 5W, and 0W oils are their extreme cold temperature performance. The SAE found it necessary to set MRV (low temp pumpability) and CCS (low temp cranking performance) limits on oils to prevent cars from not being able to start, or starting but not having a steady flow of oil being pumped up everywhere.

For a 5W, these limits are set at -30C for the CCS test, and -35C for the MRV test. The 0W has to pass the same tests but at -35 and -40C respectively.

What does this mean to the average person? Choose the appropriate grade of oil that will encompass the entire temperature range that you will be expecting between now and your next oil change. Also, since the advent of modern day synthetic oil, it is not really necessary to change your oil selection based on cold and hot weather. You can usually find a one-size-fits-all grade that will meet all of your requirements. Back in the day (with respect to conventional oil) people used to use a 5W30 in the winter for cold temperature performance, but switched to a 10W30 in the summer to attain a better shear stability in the heat. Not necessary with synthetic, where a 5W30 or even 0W30 will be suitable all year round, and have all of the shear stability that you will need in most cases for a daily driver.

Now in terms of your question, in normal PA winter temperatures, either a 5W30 or 0W30 synthetic will be fine. Assuming that the 0W30 synthetic is a bit thinner at extreme low temperatures you might end up with a slightly lower oil pressure reading on start-up and warm-up. Remember, you don't need a higher oil pressure for lubrication, you just need a sufficient pressure. At a hot idle, you may only have 10 psi of oil pressure (and that's all that's needed - more is not better or worse, it's just more).

Hopefully this makes a bit more sense.
 
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