Motul 300V 10W40 double ester, 2012 V-Strom 650

[CentAmDL650]

Here is the latest UOA report over a 3500 mile run.

Previous run was also Motul 300V 10W40 double ester, two earlier runs were Mobil 1 Racing 10W40 4T.

Shifting and clutching like a champ, and other than what appears to be 100°C viscosity shear from 12.15 cSt last time (and VOA) and a somewhat high silicon level (anti-foaming additive?), not much to report.

 

[Clevy]

Looks like your spending more than you have too.
Your using a premium oil and running it a measly 3500 miles,when tbn isn't even half gone,and dumping it.
Then spending money on a used oil analysis. I'm lost here.
I use rotella 15w-40 in a 106ci cammed tuned big twin at the same interval. I've used 300v and I liked it, but at 20 bucks a quart if didn't like it that much.
So I gotta ask why your doing a used oil analysis at all. You're acquiring data and ignoring it,considering your still running a short interval knowing tbn is still high and the oil is serviceable.
It sheared a bit but so what.
Try 7000 miles and justify the extra cost,unless you like throwing money away.
You could run a cheap hdeo for that mileage and there's no doubt in my mind there would be tbn to spare there as well.

 

[CentAmDL650]

Previous to running the 3 OCI's on Mobil 1 4T I ran one on Mobil 1 15W50 to 1500 miles, and one on Rotella 15W40 to 2000 miles. In all of those cases including the M1 4T, poor to awful shifting made me dump the crankcase. I'm finding 300V easily goes the distance without any excuses, except I was surprised this time because I did not expect any shearing at all over the OCI. In fact I almost wonder if Blackstone made a mistake and used a stock average density for mineral based oil to calculate the 100°C viscosity. Maybe I've had too much faith in this oil not shearing and I should blend in some of their 15W50 to get the starting viscosity high enough to keep it in a 40 grade after whatever amount of useage.

The 3500 mile OCI is because I'm trying to maintain my factory extended warranty.

I justify the extra oil and analysis cost because I can. Just like how you justify all the extra expense of buying a HD and putting a S&S big bore motor in it. You don't need it, it doesn't save you money somewhere else, but you like it and you want it. It's not up to other people to criticise you for spending money on something you want, or recommend you to ride a 50cc scooter to save money.

So pardon me if I say so, I also don't understand how your experience with a non-shared sump S&S powered hawg relates to my situation with a V-Strom.

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted By: CentAmDL650
I justify the extra oil and analysis cost because I can.


Good enough reason for me.

Scott

 

[LoneRanger]

Why not up it to the 15W50 300V Factory Line, run it longer and re-sample? I had been running my Ducati on 10W40 and was hesitant to go thicker but it pulls just as hard (if not harder) and fuel economy is only 0.5 to 1 mpg less using 15W50 ester than when it was previously on M1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Amsoil MCT 10W40.

 

[CentAmDL650]

From what I'm seeing in the SAE J300 APR2013 publication that Mr. Shannow gave the link to, an SAE 40 grade @ 100°C is supposed to be in the range of 12.5 - 16.3 cSt. If we look back at the VOA on this 300V 10W40 4T double ester, Blackstone stated it was 12.15 cSt @ 100°C, and therefore out of grade when new? Is Motul 300V a product the PQIA should give an advisory on? Is all the extra performance they appear to deliver only because of less viscous drag on the engine's lube system (and correspondingly more peril it places a high performance engine in)?

In 4T oils, Motul's website claims:
300V 10W40 - 13.1 cSt @ 100°C / 160 viscosity index
300V 15W50 - 17.0 cSt @ 100°C / 167 viscosity index
Should I believe them, or Blackstone?

That finking aside, I'm not complaining, because my average over the 8500 miles I've been riding on it have consistently netted me 59 - 64 mpg... Which would place it at No. 1 of the 267 bikes listed on Fuelly.com. Is it possible the oil is responsible for this?

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Why not up it to the 15W50 300V Factory Line, run it longer and re-sample? I had been running my Ducati on 10W40 and was hesitant to go thicker but it pulls just as hard (if not harder) and fuel economy is only 0.5 to 1 mpg less using 15W50 ester than when it was previously on M1 Racing 4T 10W40 or Amsoil MCT 10W40.


Don't want to give the mfg reps any ammo to deny a warranty claim if some future situation requires it, and I don't feel bad about $41 for an OCI and another $25 or $35 for UOA. But I am concerned from an engine/ clutch/ transmission protection point of view, with my slightly high aluminum numbers and some presence of lead might be related to the low viscosity, I am thinking of blending in 15W50 in summer, maybe a 1:1 mixture. Like you're saying, the cost of 0.5 - 1 mpg might gain me several 10k miles of longetivity? But not sure either how Silkolene's 15W50 high temp viscosity compares to Motul's? Maybe being the lowest viscosity wins races, but could it be a cause for extra wear for us everyday riders?

And BTW LoneRanger, how is the shifting/ clutch action now on that MTS with more time on Silkolene?

 

[LoneRanger]

The shifting has improved markedly. I did do a flush fill, i.e. pre-mature dump and re-fill with new filter in order to reduce the residual amount oil of the previous brand suspended in the new oil. Now, w/ the Silkolene's chemistry settled in @ 1500 miles after the flush fill, the shifting is better. I think it was some additive clash going on too. Clutch action was never a problem even on the first fill of silkolene, the clutch action is very smooth yet positive. I guess best way to describe clutch on the silkolene is smooth, linear, and predictable and rock solid hookup once engaged. Now, my shifts still make the signature Ducati clank in the sound department, but it's not sticking anymore.

 

[sunruh]

while the voa susvis out of grade is certainly an "interesting topic"

i think they (and you) should be more focused on why Tin and Lead went from zeros to 3/4 and 3 with the change to this oil?

also if you have had alum at 8 on different oil, why is it now at 15? why is nobody picking up on the 87% jump?

susvis aside (is this the culprit or not?) you have 3 wear metals that have jumped significantly!!!
so, do you trust the uoa and if so what about these 3 values
or
if you dont trust the uoa, then are you going to do more of them?

steve - with his bee hive hitting stick

 

[rraiderr]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
while the voa susvis out of grade is certainly an "interesting topic"

i think they (and you) should be more focused on why Tin and Lead went from zeros to 3/4 and 3 with the change to this oil?

also if you have had alum at 8 on different oil, why is it now at 15? why is nobody picking up on the 87% jump?

susvis aside (is this the culprit or not?) you have 3 wear metals that have jumped significantly!!!
so, do you trust the uoa and if so what about these 3 values
or
if you dont trust the uoa, then are you going to do more of them?

steve - with his bee hive hitting stick




Steve, not as good as my amsoil 20-50 UOA.

 

[sunruh]

dean, yes thats true but your gixxer isnt a vstrom...but yeah

 

[Analyzer]

Thanks again for such an in-depth view into your V-Strom with the VOA/UOA's! Overall, I would say your UOA came back fine. Obviously the viscosity sheared down to a 30 grade, and while I do share your concern about viscosity retention, I don't think that alone contributed to increased wear levels. UOA's aren't meant to account for small deviations from UOA to UOA, they're meant to be used for larger statistical analysis (that you are accumulating with continued multiple successive UOA's) and to notice larger abnormalities that could indicate a problem (spike in fuel dilution, antifreeze, wear metals, etc).
As far as aluminum is concerned, the only time it was ever at 8 PPM was during the shortest OCI of just over 2100 miles, while the two latest OCI's have over 60% more mileage, hence the higher quantities of aluminum. While Lead is the primary element that went up, Tin on the other hand has been tracking at 3-4 PPM with each UOA except for one, and also matches up with universal averages with this motor. Now, the increase in lead could be a few possibilities, either it can be a particle streak and will level out since Lead and Tin are commonly used in bearings, statistical variation from testing equipment, and or the use of leaded fuel (which I'm sure the owner isn't using).

On the other hand, Silicon has definitely gone up with each successive UOA, and while your VOA showed 13 PPM, leaving you with an increased Silicon level of 21 PPM, it could be gasket sealant from your previous valve inspection, or the air filter isn't performing as optimally, which could lead to increased wear levels. While your owner's manual might state the preferred use of 10W40 for most ambient temperatures, sometimes service/owners manual's will have a graph showing different viscosities that can be used during varying temperatures. If there is a graph, or if someone from the Suzuki dealership will state that the use of 15W50 would be appropriate due to your hotter ambient temps in Florida, I would consider LoneRangers advice of using the 15W50 for better oil film strength during your OCI's to limit shearing and to keep the oil within the 40-50 grade range.

For instance, my 07 Yamaha FZ1 states the use of 10W40 in the Owner's manual, but in the service manual shows that 10W40, 15W40, 20W40, and 20W50 are acceptable viscosities as well based off climate.

 

[Franklim]

I was using Motorex 10W60 on my 09 FZ1 for 15 months until I sold the bike.

 

[Mackelroy]

silkolen pro plus and motul v300 , the motorcycle types ester oil, are basically the same base oil other than color, the only difference is the moly count, motul uses more.

 

[kballowe]

please let me offer my opinion.... oil cools and lubricates....

This is a 2007 Suzuki Hayabusa with a (common) transmission problem (hence the teardown).

50,000+ miles showing.

It had 3,7xx miles on the oil when we drained it, and then removed the motor.

Exclusively ran with Rotella 15W-40 - changed between 3k - 4K and a filter change every other oil change. My personal opinion is that it's squeaky clean in there. We measured everything that we could - and it all looked very good.

This is exactly what it looked like (untouched) when I split the case.
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This is a 1973 BMW R75/5 with 40,xxx original miles and one previous owner that used Pennzoil 20W-50 exclusively and 3,000 mile oil change intervals.

This is the very first time that the pan was removed. The picture is with the camera on the floor, looking up.
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I suspect that (for the vast majority of us) it makes little difference what kind of oil we use.

There are exceptions, of course.

 

[Mackelroy]

what is the common tranny issue on the Busa, is it a bushing seizing to the shaft?

 

[FastGame]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
what is the common tranny issue on the Busa, is it a bushing seizing to the shaft?


The shaft does look like it got hot ????

 

[sunruh]

it got hot when it was tempered to hold the countershaft sproket

 

[kballowe]

Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
what is the common tranny issue on the Busa, is it a bushing seizing to the shaft?


Second gear jumps in and out. This is sometimes caused by bent shifter forks, but mostly because the dogs don't engage very far and get rounded.

Sorry for the late reply. I just discovered that I have to manually add topics to my watched list.

Who knew?

The shaft discoloration is just what Sunruh said.