M1 AFE 0w-20 basestock content

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: buster
That is correct, the EP is using a good amount of PAO. They detergent level is higher as well. Thanks for posting the updated MSDS.


Hmmm, maybe I will use the jug of this I have stashed to mix with the M1 0w-40 for my winter OCI, instead of either the Sustina 0W-20, or the TGMO, despite the EP's much lower VI (

) than either of those two products?

If you want the lightest oil on start-up in your climate you're definitely going to want to stick with Sustina with TGMO a secondary choice. M1 AFE is not in the same league.


True, but will either of those help the M1 0W-40's high TBN fight the inevitable winter time fuel dilution as well as the stout M1 0W-20 EP would (which is what I have, NOT the AFE)?

Does it REALLY HAVE TO get down to -40*C, or more for the XOM product to be equal to, or better than the cold flow capabilities of the other two??

And if it does, what exactly is the actual physical component (I'm looking for an actual chemical trait, not just a claimed/factored VI number) which allows the other two to be that much better than the M1 from -40*C to 100*F?
And also, what is it that allows the M1 to have that impressively superior MRV number, just a boatlaod more pour point depressant, or something else?

 

[Clevy]

Interesting. Though I'm still thinking the best oil out there,in Canada,dollar for dollar is co-op 0w-40.
The bottle claims to be pao,a very high concentration based on the -70c pour point(iirc).
I think it would make the ideal caterham mix.
Use it with tgmo to get the desired consistency/viscosity and call er good.
Once I use up my Castrol and Mobil 0w-40 stash I'm going to be buying pails of the co-op brand stuff.
Mixed with tgmo,or the ultra 5w-20 I got I can basically frankenbrew up anything.
Thanks again for the info though guys. Looks like m1 ep might just be the best bang for the buck oil deal there is,at least in America.
I can get the co-op 0w-40 for 24 bucks for a 5 litre jug. It's under 100 for the 5 gallon pail.
And the pao concentration is much higher than the EP line. That's likely the best Canadian oil deal going,here in sask anyway.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I can get the co-op 0w-40 for 24 bucks for a 5 litre jug.

Walmart would promptly jack that up to $50 or more, and we wouldn't want NAPA Canada to get their hands on it.

 

[Apollo14]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Interesting. Though I'm still thinking the best oil out there,in Canada,dollar for dollar is co-op 0w-40.
The bottle claims to be pao,a very high concentration based on the -70c pour point(iirc).
I think it would make the ideal caterham mix.
Use it with tgmo to get the desired consistency/viscosity and call er good.
Once I use up my Castrol and Mobil 0w-40 stash I'm going to be buying pails of the co-op brand stuff.
Mixed with tgmo,or the ultra 5w-20 I got I can basically frankenbrew up anything.
Thanks again for the info though guys. Looks like m1 ep might just be the best bang for the buck oil deal there is,at least in America.
I can get the co-op 0w-40 for 24 bucks for a 5 litre jug. It's under 100 for the 5 gallon pail.
And the pao concentration is much higher than the EP line. That's likely the best Canadian oil deal going,here in sask anyway.


Doesn't make sense to me to mix lowish VI oil designed for diesels with high VI TGMO just to save a few $. From what I read, all the true experts on this site don't suggest mixing oils as they believe off the shelf oils, in the correct grade, with the right approvals are fully formulated, with additives and base stocks in balance and are all that is needed for a well maintained, properly running engine.

Surely it's possible to buy approved oil in 30 grade with good low temp characteristics for not much more in Canada without resorting to home psuedo chemistry?

 

[buster]

^ agree.

It can be fun, but ultimately you're wasting your time. It's very easy to get hooked on one aspect of an oil you want to think makes it so superior. It used to be HT/HS, then it was moly, than it was PAO yada yada...VI...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: buster
That is correct, the EP is using a good amount of PAO. They detergent level is higher as well. Thanks for posting the updated MSDS.


Hmmm, maybe I will use the jug of this I have stashed to mix with the M1 0w-40 for my winter OCI, instead of either the Sustina 0W-20, or the TGMO, despite the EP's much lower VI (

) than either of those two products?


There's more to a good oil than just its VI.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver

Does it REALLY HAVE TO get down to -40*C, or more for the XOM product to be equal to, or better than the cold flow capabilities of the other two??

No. Remember VI is calculated between 40C and 100C. Those are not cold temperatures. While the curve certainly extends down, VI calculators are regarded as inaccurate below 0C.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: buster
That is correct, the EP is using a good amount of PAO. They detergent level is higher as well. Thanks for posting the updated MSDS.


Hmmm, maybe I will use the jug of this I have stashed to mix with the M1 0w-40 for my winter OCI, instead of either the Sustina 0W-20, or the TGMO, despite the EP's much lower VI (

) than either of those two products?

If you want the lightest oil on start-up in your climate you're definitely going to want to stick with Sustina with TGMO a secondary choice. M1 AFE is not in the same league.


Does it REALLY HAVE TO get down to -40*C, or more for the XOM product to be equal to, or better than the cold flow capabilities of the other two??

As mentioned Sustina has much the same MRV as M1 0W-20 but Sustina's CCS of 3550cP @ -35C is almost 15% lower than M1's 4110cP figure (PQIA). Sustina is 50% lighter at 0C based on it's KV40/100 spec's. That advantage holds up as the temp's drop to the break even point at -40 degrees.

TGMO is 40% lighter at 0C than M1. Now we don't know the MRC/CCS spec's of TGMO but assuming for the sake of argument it's no better than the MRV of the original Nippon Oil made TGMO which had an MRV of 18,000cP and CCS of 5700cP I suspect the break even point between the two oils will be at at least -25C if not -30C.

Since you can get a pretty good deal on the expensive Sustina that's the oil I'd use since it's way lighter on start-up than M1 in your climate. Also remember Sustina is a long drain oil as well. They use a proprietary sulfur free ZP AW additive vs ZDDP that doesn't build up acid in the oil as that molecule brakes up, extending the TBN depletion rate.

 

[dailydriver]

^^^Yes, you are correct, and I double checked the Eneos claimed starting TBN, and it is 12.3, so it beats ALL of the others in that respect as well (and should quell my winter fuel dilution/acid formation concerns).

Now i just have to decide if I want to mix it with the Red Line 0W-40 again, but in a higher concentration to offset that 4.0 HTHSV, or go with the slightly lighter, but lower VI M1 0W-40, in an even split mix.

(I DO give up that M1 0W-40 long drain, high TBN by using the Red Line product though, but gain some group 5 base stock, and more moly.)