Cummins vs Powerstroke vs Duramax

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Yes they can. DPF and the rest of the turbo-back exhaust was the first thing to go.


Stupidity at it's finest...

(not you the concept of removing them)


I said it before, and I'll say it again: If anyone wants to send me the $2,199 to replace my bad DPF, I'll put it back in.

I don't even want to put a number on the fuel economy gains I have made since I got rid of that thing. I had a solid 11 mpg truck, which was depressing, coming off of a solid 20mpg 5.9 CTD. Now, I have gobs more power, unmentionable fuel economy, and never have to worry about the computer cutting in and turning my truck into a turtle over that failure point.

Might as well add a 7th, weaker tire that prematurely blows before the rest of them, and costs 5 times more to replace, and doesn't bear any load.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
If you go to buy a medium duty truck (650/6500+), the only engine out of the three you are going to find is the Cummins engine.....in the Ford F650 at that. The fact that Ford wouldn't use its own baby for the F650 should tell you enough about that.



Not really. If we are cruising that anecdote the 6.0L and 6.4L were also both medium duty engines (VT365 and Maxxforce 7), used extensively in school buses and the like. Obviously they were the pinnacle of dependability because they saw that service, right?

And the upcoming F-650/750 will be sporting either the 6.8L V10 or the 6.7L PSD.

http://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/f650-f750/2016/

Ford has plenty of faith in their new diesel engine. I think they needed some time to set it up for commercial service.


The main point here, is that when it came down to it, Ford chose Cummins, too.

They might now go another way, but they still did it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yes, when they weren't building it themselves, they chose a Cummins-sourced engine, which, given the track record of the VT365 and Maxxforce 7 in fleet service, seems to have been a wise move.

The emissions-laden diesels have really been an issue (jumped the shark to quote another member) for some manufacturers. CAT pulled out, International fumbled and created a few disasters.... And fuel mileage went in the toilet across the board.

My buddy who had a 6.0L that he "bulletproofed" picked up massive fuel economy deleting the EGR off of it, and some "other" components

Truck never smoked, even with a tune on it and one has to wonder how burning more fuel, then choking the engine with the byproducts, then collecting all the carbon in a huge canister to be disposed of later, is more environmentally friendly? If you cripple the fuel mileage, and consume more of it, how is that an improvement?

 

[ironman_gq]

I have a duramax, even stock with the DPF it averaged 17-18mpg unloaded and 10-12 with a 12k flat deck behind it. Deleted it gets 21 on the highway 10-12 loaded going 70+ on the highway.

Cummins had their share of issues, mostly because they held out on putting in the SCR and exhaust fluid by making their EGR larger (the whole idea is to reduce NOx emissions by reducing combustion temps or using an SCR and fluid)had horrible mileage for the first few years of the 6.7.

Ford had several different engines with a slew of issues, the 6.7 has had fuel pump problems mostly related to poor fuel quality in the US and their sub par fuel filtration, The Bosch CP4 pumps were not built for the low lubricity in our fuel (1000hr expected life), the CP4.2 in the newest Powerstrokes and Duramaxes seems to be doing better.

All of the big 3 are more than capable of 18mpg with their current model year trucks (SRW not dually) going down the highway.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
You can still get a Cummins with a manual transmission! I've never been a Chrysler fan, but that's the combination I'd get if I could justify a diesel truck. The Duramax would be a close second.


I don't even want a manual trans in my next class 8 semi truck! Had enough shifting. Time to let technology to the job and make my life easier.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Yes, when they weren't building it themselves, they chose a Cummins-sourced engine, which, given the track record of the VT365 and Maxxforce 7 in fleet service, seems to have been a wise move.

The emissions-laden diesels have really been an issue (jumped the shark to quote another member) for some manufacturers. CAT pulled out, International fumbled and created a few disasters.... And fuel mileage went in the toilet across the board.

My buddy who had a 6.0L that he "bulletproofed" picked up massive fuel economy deleting the EGR off of it, and some "other" components

Truck never smoked, even with a tune on it and one has to wonder how burning more fuel, then choking the engine with the byproducts, then collecting all the carbon in a huge canister to be disposed of later, is more environmentally friendly? If you cripple the fuel mileage, and consume more of it, how is that an improvement?


American environmental culture is that if you ignore the collateral environmental damage to reduce environmental damage in only one aspect, then you have done a favor for the environment. And since the average environmental person only thinks of emissions, it's a win-win.

 

[ledslinger]

A good friend has been in the cell tower business for about 20 years. He's used them all with fleets as big as 30 trucks. Had Fords and Dodge, now DMax. The Fords and Dodge were expensive and unreliable. They like the Chevys. He just bought one to pull his big boat from his house in the Keys to the Ozarks seasonally.

 

[Ramblejam]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
A good friend has been in the cell tower business for about 20 years. He's used them all with fleets as big as 30 trucks. Had Fords and Dodge, now DMax. The Fords and Dodge were expensive and unreliable. They like the Chevys. He just bought one to pull his big boat from his house in the Keys to the Ozarks seasonally.


That's been my observation as well among those who work their rigs -- over the last 10 years, in regards to 2500/3500 Diesels:

Dodge has a great engine, but guys hate the trucks.
Ford/ has a great truck, but guys hate the engines.
Chevy/GMC is very popular.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
But yes, it does seem they are planning to dip the Powerstroke into the medium duty market. We'll see how that works out.

It'll work out just fine, the 6.7 Powerstroke is a proven 6.7 Cummins-killer.

 

[SilverC6]

RAM 3500 Cummins with the Aisin transmission.

That says it all.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam

Dodge has a great engine, but guys hate the trucks.
Ford has a great truck, but guys hate the engines.


I have seen Ford trucks with the Cummins engine. Maybe they have the best setup?
I have also seen Chevy trucks with the Cummins engine.

 

[Thermo1223]

Thats one thing...both on my Aunt's Dodge's never ever had an engine or trans problem. Just the rest of the truck.

'96 12V 3500 Dually with well over 350k miles on original clutch.

'00 24V 3500 4WD Dually with I think 200k+ now, auto. They got it used from a friend and put about 40-60k on it a year.

Every Ford on their crew has had a HEUI issue some small, some really $$$

I never saw a Chevy though, not diesel at least.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
But yes, it does seem they are planning to dip the Powerstroke into the medium duty market. We'll see how that works out.

It'll work out just fine, the 6.7 Powerstroke is a proven 6.7 Cummins-killer.

I also feel certain that Ford has done their homework. I would not bet against them after their previous stumbles...

 

[Thermo1223]

These days isn't who can design an emissions system that actually works?

 

[1 FMF]

http://powerstrokehelp.com/

what does it tell you when there's a website dedicated to 'powerstroke help' ?

check out the guys tech videos on youtube, he explains everything very well and if you watch them you'll know why to avoid the 6.0, 6.3 and 6.7. although i believe he says the 6.0 is the best IF you put a bunch of work into it to fix ford's design problems.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
http://powerstrokehelp.com/

what does it tell you when there's a website dedicated to 'powerstroke help' ?

check out the guys tech videos on youtube, he explains everything very well and if you watch them you'll know why to avoid the 6.0, 6.3 and 6.7. although i believe he says the 6.0 is the best IF you put a bunch of work into it to fix ford's design problems.


So because there is a powerstroke help forum that means what exactly?

There's a Cummins help forum (for the Dodge truck guys):

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/

Read some of the threads there. Same thing.

And then there are the two "fatal flaws" for certain years of the 5.9L: http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/dodge/1103dp_cummins_fatal_flaws/

As well as the DPF issue:
http://towprofessional.com/2013/12/dont-get-clogged-up-diesel-particulate-filter/

Quote:
The most common Cummins DPF related symptoms are clogged and cracked DPF filters; high cleaning / replacement costs; lost income due to truck down time; excessive regeneration cycles; and reduced power / limp mode in PTO. These DPF problems are so common that Dodge/Cummins owners have filed a class action lawsuit which has yet to be settled.


And a Duramax help forum:
http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/

Both have "911" sections BTW.

There's also a "Duramax Help" Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/duramaxhelp

And a Duramax Problems section on this site:
http://www.duramaxdieselspecs.com/duramax-problems.html


They ALL have their issues. The thing was that while the 7.3L Powerstroke was generally excellent, the 6.0L was plagued with little issues that could become big issues. The 6.4L had its own suite of problems:

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/1212dp_6_4l_problems/

That were different from the ones that gave its predecessor its reputation. All of this added up to Ford severing their relationship with International and designing/building the Scorpion Diesel (6.7L), that shares nothing with its predecessors other than the Powerstroke name.

The only real issue with the 6.7L is fuel system related and has to do with Ford's choice of fuel pump, which has shown to have durability issues with North American fuel (the unit was designed/manufactured by Bosch for European diesel). The 6.7L is generally pretty well regarded at this point.

 

[1 FMF]

hahaha did that push your button or what?

the fact that the website is literally "powerstrokehelp.com" is funny!

watch the guys youtube vids. i posted it for the original thread starter whoever it was to watch since he/she wanted to know about diesels.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
hahaha did that push your button or what?

the fact that the website is literally "powerstrokehelp.com" is funny!

watch the guys youtube vids. i posted it for the original thread starter whoever it was to watch since he/she wanted to know about diesels.



I agree the name is funny, but the site exists because of the guy who does the videos, that's his "thing", help for people who own a Powerstroke diesel. The same could be done for common issues for any other engine out there. Trav could make his own Youtube channel for Honda owners and cover the VCM issue, VTEC solenoids...etc. He could call it vtechelp.com

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


The only real issue with the 6.7L is fuel system related and has to do with Ford's choice of fuel pump, which has shown to have durability issues with North American fuel (the unit was designed/manufactured by Bosch for European diesel). The 6.7L is generally pretty well regarded at this point.


It is not just Ford, Bosch uses a similar design for passenger car diesels. VW's new CR-TDI in particular and when they would self destruct it would take the entire fuel system with it.(Tank/lines/inj/pumps)

I can only imagine a similar thing happening with the Ford. Luckily the failure rate was low and seems to only affected 09-10 models. One guy even designed a kit to push the metallic particles into the filter instead of straight back to the tank should a failure occur. That way you are only out a pump & filter, not the whole system.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: 1 FMF
http://powerstrokehelp.com/

what does it tell you when there's a website dedicated to 'powerstroke help' ?

check out the guys tech videos on youtube, he explains everything very well and if you watch them you'll know why to avoid the 6.0, 6.3 and 6.7. although i believe he says the 6.0 is the best IF you put a bunch of work into it to fix ford's design problems.


So, why would one avoid the 6.7 based on his videos? Other than a batch of bad valves very early into the 6.7's production, they've proven to be fairly bulletproof. Almost every single complaint this guy had about the 6.0/6.4 Navistar engines were addressed with the 6.7. For example, rocker arm bridges and the associated valve side loading, which the Duramax and Cummins still employ, BTW.

IMO, the 6.7 Powerstroke has proven itself the most sorted out of all the medium duty emissions era diesels.