So, Fram filters...why the bad rap?

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

I don't believe a cut open picture of the ADBV is valid since the leaf spring pressing the end cap into the valve will make it fit tighter and probably seal a lot better.


This is a good point, and I should have mentioned it. The force of the leaf spring will seal a poorly positioned ADBV to a greater degree than shown in my picture. I was illustrating a possible source (leaking ADBV) of the start-up noise I have experienced at times with Fram Extra Guard filters.

The source of the start-up noise could have been due to a different issue. Whatever the cause, it was reduced or eliminated by changing oil filters.

Brian,
ADBV's are tested for leak rate on a calibrated test stand. It does not matter what the design is as long as they meet SAE and ISO standards for leakage and we do. If you "hear a start up rattle" it means one of two things, the filter has been on the car long enough for the ADBV to become brittle (silicone is best for longer OCI's) or there is a piece of [censored] stuck under the valve letting it leak.

 

[Motorking]

Not sure what I can add here buddy. there are so many filter makers using fiber ebd caps now that our patent is expired. What do you think of the German branded filters that use only glue for end caps? What about Toyota OE filters with the end pleats woven together and no end cap at all. Surely all this DIY opinion means more than engineering durability and performance testing. It aint easy being in this forum!

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Why doesn't fram just stop being so darn cheap and add metal end caps to the OCOD and end this discussion forever??

Are you saying that the quantity of unfiltered oil going through that gap is a problem?


Im saying that if they used metal end caps, this point would be mute since the ONLY argument that anyone ever has either for or against the Fram OCOD is those blasted end caps. It isn't filtration, micron rating, media etc. Its just about the endcaps. Just stop cheaping out, put metal end caps on them and move on!

Your argument sucks dude. Metal end caps are going away in the filter industry. Mann and Hummel is making filters with fiber end discs, Filtron and Filtec are doing the same. Some filter makers are just weaving the ends of the pleats togther, some are using only plastisol glue as an end cap. Are you saying you really do not care if the filter cleans the oil? Only if it has a steel end cap? The end cap purpose in life is to carry the plastisol glue that seals the ends of the media, nothing more. And a porous fiber end disc will bond to the glue much better than a smooth steel end cap. Nissan uses fiber end caps OE, so does Honda, Subaru, Bentley, AC Delco (felt) Toyota (no end cap)do you think the engine designers at all those companies are stupid? We invented a less expensive way to make a filter that allows us to spend money on high efficiency media, and that my friend is what keeps your oil clean.

 

[jk_636]

Telecat and Apollo, I regret to inform you that this is not a scholarly journal or peer reviewed article. It is a online forum. Grammar and spelling police not necessary.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: telecat

Um, yeah, and COST has nothing to do with the OEM decision. Remember the Pinto fuel tanks?


Yeah and after the hysteria died down they were analyzed and you were no more likely to die in a rear end collision in a Pinto than any other small car. Same with the Corsair and the GM side saddle gas tanks.

 

[kozanoglu]

Originally Posted By: Apollo14
Originally Posted By: telecat
Originally Posted By: jk_636


They get it Telecat, your not going to change their mind. I think this thread is starting to

Please learn the difference between your and you're. They are not synonymous.


"Whalla!"


No, it is 'wallah' in Sub Saharan French!

I used Fram TG in the past for 3-5k oil changes, did not experience any problem. The part I like the most is that textured black paint that makes it easier when it is time to remove filter. I have not used Ultra yet, it is more expensive than my current OE filter with no endcaps. If-when I see a drop in the price or a sale I will give it a try.

 

[Nate1979]

Motorking, how dare you bring logic, reason and facts to the discussion!

 

[SilverC6]

This thread reminds me of the football game over the weekend....

A bunch of hail Marys at the end.

 

[jk_636]

Motor king I'm not sure you can answer this, and you very well may not be able to, but earlier in the thread I believe you had cited the Wix campaign that began the cardboard V. Metal debate. Why hasn't Fram ever just released a budget line like the orange can with metal end caps to appease the consumers that find metal end caps more appealing? Speaking strictly as a consumer, if Fram released such a product, I would go back to orange can. I used one for years, but then like so many others I abandoned them when I heard fiber board horror stories.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Apollo14
They wear uniforms?


They do ... it's a virtual "uniform" they "wear" - makes 'em easy to spot.

 

[SirTanon]

Nicely said, Motorking. Unfortunately, it's likely to stir up the trolls.

Nevertheless, it's nice to see some real engineering brought to bear on them

 

[telecat]

Originally Posted By: Apollo14
They wear uniforms?
I don't. One person's uninformed troll is another person's advocate for quality and common sense maintenance.

 

[kschachn]

So true. Unfortunately it's also one person's excuse for trying to impress everybody with their ignorance.

Originally Posted By: telecat
I don't. One person's uninformed troll is another person's advocate for quality and common sense maintenance.

 

[threeputtpar]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
WIX just lost 100% of the CarQuest business to a filter the boys at Champ designed that blows away the old WIX CQ Blue and Red.


Wait, did you just say that CARQUEST filters would no longer be made by Wix soon and that Champ will be making them? Interesting, especially in light of O'Reilly recently switching from Fram made filters to Wix made ones.

I have no loyalty to any brand, so I see this as a positive for all consumers as it fosters innovation through competition.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Uninformed trolls with "common sense" seems to be a somewhat oxymoronic concept.

 

[Dallas69]

Logic?
We dont need no stinking logic!
All we need is some Youtube!
Youtube rules the world!!
If it is on Youtube it has to be true

 

[Apollo14]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Im saying that if they used metal end caps, this point would be mute since the ONLY argument that anyone ever has either for or against the Fram OCOD is those blasted end caps. It isn't filtration, micron rating, media etc. Its just about the endcaps. Just stop cheaping out, put metal end caps on them and move on!

Your argument sucks dude. Metal end caps are going away in the filter industry. Mann and Hummel is making filters with fiber end discs, Filtron and Filtec are doing the same. Some filter makers are just weaving the ends of the pleats togther, some are using only plastisol glue as an end cap. Are you saying you really do not care if the filter cleans the oil? Only if it has a steel end cap? The end cap purpose in life is to carry the plastisol glue that seals the ends of the media, nothing more. And a porous fiber end disc will bond to the glue much better than a smooth steel end cap. Nissan uses fiber end caps OE, so does Honda, Subaru, Bentley, AC Delco (felt) Toyota (no end cap)do you think the engine designers at all those companies are stupid? We invented a less expensive way to make a filter that allows us to spend money on high efficiency media, and that my friend is what keeps your oil clean.

 

[steveh]

When are people going to realize Motormouth is a salesman feeding you biased information. It would be like asking a Ford,Chevy and a Dodge salesman who makes the best trucks. He only comes here to mooch off the free Fram advertising.

 

[Dallas69]

I think you are wrong.
Jay seems to be very honest and informative.
Unlike alot of folks here I think he knows what he is talking about

 

[Bud_One]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
I think you are wrong.
Jay seems to be very honest and informative.
Unlike alot of folks here I think he knows what he is talking about


+1