I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
Why the auto repair industry gets a bad rep
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Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
I agree. Guy sounds like a douche. Find a new mechanic who'll appreciate your business and hard earned money.
I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
I agree. Guy sounds like a douche. Find a new mechanic who'll appreciate your business and hard earned money.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Thing is that this guy IS a mechanic AND the shop owner, and instead of doing what you said he railed at me, and scolded me, even after I took the high road and tried to explain my concerns.
Honestly I don't see how it "looks bad" for a customer to look under the hood of his car to make sure I'm satisfied with the work. Not to mention that other customers generally won't know if you are a customer, for all they know you could be a tech.
I've had to return the car to this place on a number of occasions to have things made right, but never got upset or irritated with them because mistakes are made..so I guess the customer is there to service the shop? LOL
Nope, I as the customer I'm NOT there at the service of the shop.
They are supposed to be the service professionals and need to act like it, or at least if you have a bad day and get angry with the customer, you need to step up after you cool your jets and
apologize for the unprofessional behavior if you want my business.
As a result of this guys asinine behavior he lost 4 vehicles to work on for himself and his other techs. Seems foolhardy to me.
But just proves to me that the auto repair industry has real
issues with honesty, competence and professionalism in the biggest way and they keep on proving it day after day why consumers think it is one of the most sleazy industries in the country.
It does look bad to other customers because it looks like your having issues with the shops services, It is very obvious (At least where I come from) if your a Tech or not because of the Uniform that says your name & the name of the business. Another thing is I don't allow Techs to work on cars in the parking lot, That is what a Service Bay is for.
We are there to serve the customer. But, I run my shop My Way, I will not/Cannot let customers tell me how to do my job.
Many years ago, An older gentlemen came in with his factory service manual & photocopied pages with several highlighted marks & preceded to tell what was wrong with his car, What every bolt needed to be torque to, And what procedure to use.....On top of all that.....What he thought he should pay for said service. I actually did the job & several after that for him, He did calm down on the eccentric [censored] after the first service. I thought...[censored], Putting up with that paid off. Wrong, He come in one day with that manual again with his highlighter filled copies.
I politely asked to see the Manual, Placed on the hood of his Oldsmobile & said "If that manual knows everything, Let it fix your car"
As a Technician & Shop Manager.....I apologize for them not always double checking their work. They know better. Grouping us all together & calling us sleazy is Flat Wrong.
Thing is that this guy IS a mechanic AND the shop owner, and instead of doing what you said he railed at me, and scolded me, even after I took the high road and tried to explain my concerns.
Honestly I don't see how it "looks bad" for a customer to look under the hood of his car to make sure I'm satisfied with the work. Not to mention that other customers generally won't know if you are a customer, for all they know you could be a tech.
I've had to return the car to this place on a number of occasions to have things made right, but never got upset or irritated with them because mistakes are made..so I guess the customer is there to service the shop? LOL
Nope, I as the customer I'm NOT there at the service of the shop.
They are supposed to be the service professionals and need to act like it, or at least if you have a bad day and get angry with the customer, you need to step up after you cool your jets and
apologize for the unprofessional behavior if you want my business.
As a result of this guys asinine behavior he lost 4 vehicles to work on for himself and his other techs. Seems foolhardy to me.
But just proves to me that the auto repair industry has real
issues with honesty, competence and professionalism in the biggest way and they keep on proving it day after day why consumers think it is one of the most sleazy industries in the country.
It does look bad to other customers because it looks like your having issues with the shops services, It is very obvious (At least where I come from) if your a Tech or not because of the Uniform that says your name & the name of the business. Another thing is I don't allow Techs to work on cars in the parking lot, That is what a Service Bay is for.
We are there to serve the customer. But, I run my shop My Way, I will not/Cannot let customers tell me how to do my job.
Many years ago, An older gentlemen came in with his factory service manual & photocopied pages with several highlighted marks & preceded to tell what was wrong with his car, What every bolt needed to be torque to, And what procedure to use.....On top of all that.....What he thought he should pay for said service. I actually did the job & several after that for him, He did calm down on the eccentric [censored] after the first service. I thought...[censored], Putting up with that paid off. Wrong, He come in one day with that manual again with his highlighter filled copies.
I politely asked to see the Manual, Placed on the hood of his Oldsmobile & said "If that manual knows everything, Let it fix your car"
As a Technician & Shop Manager.....I apologize for them not always double checking their work. They know better. Grouping us all together & calling us sleazy is Flat Wrong.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
Oh,that and I left him a spare
Honda crush washer for the oil drain pan too.
LOL
But that is just what he did.
I have a feeling that he IS losing other customers. His wife is the service writer, and some vague hints have been dropped.
Another thing this place did was after specifically requesting a Denso Radiator, which of course I was willing to pay much more for, was NOT installed. I asked the woman (SW) why it wasn't what they used. She basically just brushed me off and said they couldn't get that because their vendor doesn't carry them.LOL I replied politely, I really wish you would have called me first and told me that you couldn't source it, I'm OK with you using your own part brand because I know you will stand by your work, but you really need to let the customer know things like this. Not even so much as an "I'm sorry we didn't let you know". Classic. [censored]. Shop.
@clingbarger
You can run your shop anyway you want and also refuse to serve customers.
I think you'd agree, that if you don't want a paying customer looking under his hood on your property you need to post a sign that clearly states that to the customers...
don't you? Rather than coming out and
barking at one. Right?
I'm not just bashing this one place either, I have seen the same or similar [censored] from MOST of the places I have gone...
One the the biggest problems is that as soon as most places realize that you are car savvy and do some of your own work they don't want your business. Why? Because they are concerned that you might catch them pulling their underhanded [censored]. Bottom line.
I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
Oh,that and I left him a spare
Honda crush washer for the oil drain pan too.
LOL
But that is just what he did.
I have a feeling that he IS losing other customers. His wife is the service writer, and some vague hints have been dropped.
Another thing this place did was after specifically requesting a Denso Radiator, which of course I was willing to pay much more for, was NOT installed. I asked the woman (SW) why it wasn't what they used. She basically just brushed me off and said they couldn't get that because their vendor doesn't carry them.LOL I replied politely, I really wish you would have called me first and told me that you couldn't source it, I'm OK with you using your own part brand because I know you will stand by your work, but you really need to let the customer know things like this. Not even so much as an "I'm sorry we didn't let you know". Classic. [censored]. Shop.
@clingbarger
You can run your shop anyway you want and also refuse to serve customers.
I think you'd agree, that if you don't want a paying customer looking under his hood on your property you need to post a sign that clearly states that to the customers...
don't you? Rather than coming out and
barking at one. Right?
I'm not just bashing this one place either, I have seen the same or similar [censored] from MOST of the places I have gone...
One the the biggest problems is that as soon as most places realize that you are car savvy and do some of your own work they don't want your business. Why? Because they are concerned that you might catch them pulling their underhanded [censored]. Bottom line.
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Sounds like clash of the type A personalities.
Like was said before in this thread, a shop can fire customers. It's more subtle, like booking them a month out, adding an annoyance fee, etc.
I worked in a tire shop as a noob rookie and knew more about cars than 95% of the customers. The other 5%, we had a mutual respect thing going. But if you fire 5% of your customers for being know-it-alls someone else will come in and replace them.
Like was said before in this thread, a shop can fire customers. It's more subtle, like booking them a month out, adding an annoyance fee, etc.
I worked in a tire shop as a noob rookie and knew more about cars than 95% of the customers. The other 5%, we had a mutual respect thing going. But if you fire 5% of your customers for being know-it-alls someone else will come in and replace them.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Sounds like clash of the type A personalities.
eljefino...I can promise you that I have
ALWAYS been a "good" customer. which means
I
A) Pay my bill on time
B) only make reasonable requests
C) accept that mistakes will be made and
do not get upset or angry when they happen
D) Try and schedule to the shops
most convenient opportunities to do the work.
E) Never rush them on getting the job done
F) Am polite and treat them like I want to be treated.
Show me where I am going wrong.
It's funny how some of you are intent on
"blaming the customer".
Sounds like clash of the type A personalities.
eljefino...I can promise you that I have
ALWAYS been a "good" customer. which means
I
A) Pay my bill on time
B) only make reasonable requests
C) accept that mistakes will be made and
do not get upset or angry when they happen
D) Try and schedule to the shops
most convenient opportunities to do the work.
E) Never rush them on getting the job done
F) Am polite and treat them like I want to be treated.
Show me where I am going wrong.
It's funny how some of you are intent on
"blaming the customer".
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
I agree. Guy sounds like a douche. Find a new mechanic who'll appreciate your business and hard earned money.
Thanks aquariuscsm!
I'm looking.... part of the problem is where I am now located, I don't think many of the businesses down here understand being competitive, and concerned with reasonable customer service. Although I hate to say it...could it be that I'm a Yankee living in the deep south?
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I'm at a loss as to why the guy would flip out just because you are checking your oil. You would think he would be out of business if he couldn't control his anger.
I agree. Guy sounds like a douche. Find a new mechanic who'll appreciate your business and hard earned money.
Thanks aquariuscsm!
I'm looking.... part of the problem is where I am now located, I don't think many of the businesses down here understand being competitive, and concerned with reasonable customer service. Although I hate to say it...could it be that I'm a Yankee living in the deep south?
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Part of the problem techs have is when some guy comes in who says he is car savvy, but instead he just read a bunch of misinformation on the internet. I expect and welcome my customers to do research before making a decision on a repair. 95% of those who do will have an intelligent conversation with you and will let you teach them. It's that 5% who refuse to believe you for some reason or other that drive you up the wall. They'll tell you don't know what you're talking about and your diagnosis is incorrect and you didn't tighten this bolt properly of use the wrong gasket sealer, etc.
Long ago, I had an electrical engineer come in (I knew this because he introduced himself followed by "I'm an engineer") with his Toyota pickup with the 22RE engine that was running poorly. I brought it in and put it on my Sun Scope and found it had a single cylinder misfire. Based on the firing line, it looked like it had a fouled plug. I pulled the plugs and they were all fouled with fuel. They were these fancy new plugs (Bosch Platinums) that had just come on the market. I put in a set of regular NGKs from stock and the engine ran beautifully.
So I called him up and told him these new plugs weren't going to work in this engine. Man, did I get an earful. He went on and on about how he was an engineer and would know more than I did about ignition systems and that it must have been something else. So I invited him down to take a look himself.
I put his old plugs back in then fired up the engine so he could see the patterns on the oscilloscope. It again ran terrible. I figured he must be used to using scopes so he could see the value in it. The patterns clearly indicated that a cylinder was misfiring. Then, I put the new set back in and fired it off. It ran perfect and the scope patterns were perfect too.
He told me that I was reading the scope wrong and there was still something else wrong. I put his plugs back in and gave him his bill (1 hour of labor). He started freaking out because I was charging him 'just to look at it' when in reality I spent much more than an hour between my diagnosis, my phone call, and showing him in person what was causing it.
These are the types of customers you don't need. They take up too much of your valuable time that could be better utilized helping other customers. Unfortunately, there are a lot of these guys out there.
Long ago, I had an electrical engineer come in (I knew this because he introduced himself followed by "I'm an engineer") with his Toyota pickup with the 22RE engine that was running poorly. I brought it in and put it on my Sun Scope and found it had a single cylinder misfire. Based on the firing line, it looked like it had a fouled plug. I pulled the plugs and they were all fouled with fuel. They were these fancy new plugs (Bosch Platinums) that had just come on the market. I put in a set of regular NGKs from stock and the engine ran beautifully.
So I called him up and told him these new plugs weren't going to work in this engine. Man, did I get an earful. He went on and on about how he was an engineer and would know more than I did about ignition systems and that it must have been something else. So I invited him down to take a look himself.
I put his old plugs back in then fired up the engine so he could see the patterns on the oscilloscope. It again ran terrible. I figured he must be used to using scopes so he could see the value in it. The patterns clearly indicated that a cylinder was misfiring. Then, I put the new set back in and fired it off. It ran perfect and the scope patterns were perfect too.
He told me that I was reading the scope wrong and there was still something else wrong. I put his plugs back in and gave him his bill (1 hour of labor). He started freaking out because I was charging him 'just to look at it' when in reality I spent much more than an hour between my diagnosis, my phone call, and showing him in person what was causing it.
These are the types of customers you don't need. They take up too much of your valuable time that could be better utilized helping other customers. Unfortunately, there are a lot of these guys out there.
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Sounds like clash of the type A personalities.
eljefino...I can promise you that I have
ALWAYS been a "good" customer. which means
I
A) Pay my bill on time
B) only make reasonable requests
C) accept that mistakes will be made and
do not get upset or angry when they happen
D) Try and schedule to the shops
most convenient opportunities to do the work.
E) Never rush them on getting the job done
F) Am polite and treat them like I want to be treated.
Show me where I am going wrong.
It's funny how some of you are intent on
"blaming the customer".
You sound like an ideal customer! Best thing is to drop your car off and leave it for the day.
If you like "House, MD" on TV he's always chagrined when his patients read something online and try to diagnose themselves. Bet there's a grain of truth to that.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Sounds like clash of the type A personalities.
eljefino...I can promise you that I have
ALWAYS been a "good" customer. which means
I
A) Pay my bill on time
B) only make reasonable requests
C) accept that mistakes will be made and
do not get upset or angry when they happen
D) Try and schedule to the shops
most convenient opportunities to do the work.
E) Never rush them on getting the job done
F) Am polite and treat them like I want to be treated.
Show me where I am going wrong.
It's funny how some of you are intent on
"blaming the customer".
You sound like an ideal customer! Best thing is to drop your car off and leave it for the day.
I like the "I run the shop how I want" comment, gave me a chuckle because "I ensure the vehicle is safe to drive how I want". So, unless you have a full disclosure on the receipt that everything is done 100% and was double checked (that means I will not find low engine, ATF, coolant or brake fluids, no loose bolts and wheel nuts etc.) I will not leave until the car passes MY inspection to MY satisfaction. Plus it's my oblogation as a driver's license holder.
If that [censored] happened to me, the shop would not see another dime from me. You can argue that it's your shop, property or whatever, but the car is my property and I paid you to have my car on your property, but I did not waive any of my rights and responsibilities as an owner of that car.
In other words, you can’t stop me from checking things over in the parking lot because it is my responsibility, as a licensed driver, to ensure the vehicle is safe to operate before I drive the car. You can't stop me from performing those safety checks.
Now, if I started to remove wheels, unbolt stuff etc. that's a different story, but nobody can stop the driver from performing visual checks before the car is driven.
If you did, I would require a written waiver stating that you did those checks and they are not required by me. Would any mechanic provide such a waiver? No way in [censored].
If that [censored] happened to me, the shop would not see another dime from me. You can argue that it's your shop, property or whatever, but the car is my property and I paid you to have my car on your property, but I did not waive any of my rights and responsibilities as an owner of that car.
In other words, you can’t stop me from checking things over in the parking lot because it is my responsibility, as a licensed driver, to ensure the vehicle is safe to operate before I drive the car. You can't stop me from performing those safety checks.
Now, if I started to remove wheels, unbolt stuff etc. that's a different story, but nobody can stop the driver from performing visual checks before the car is driven.
If you did, I would require a written waiver stating that you did those checks and they are not required by me. Would any mechanic provide such a waiver? No way in [censored].
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Ditto on the " I run my shop the way that I want comment."
You can run your shop into the ground for all I care, but I still have the right to reasonably visually inspect the work that you did and that I paid for to see that it was completed in a satisfactory manner.
Like for instance, the tire rotation that I paid for for a car that had 2 Yokohama radials on the front and 2 General brand radials on the rear when I brought it in. After the shop was compensated for the work, I went out to the lot to find that the Yokos were on the front and the Generals were on the rear. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the service that I paid for was not performed.
Why would I not take it up with the "management" prior to leaving the premises?
You can run your shop into the ground for all I care, but I still have the right to reasonably visually inspect the work that you did and that I paid for to see that it was completed in a satisfactory manner.
Like for instance, the tire rotation that I paid for for a car that had 2 Yokohama radials on the front and 2 General brand radials on the rear when I brought it in. After the shop was compensated for the work, I went out to the lot to find that the Yokos were on the front and the Generals were on the rear. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the service that I paid for was not performed.
Why would I not take it up with the "management" prior to leaving the premises?
It seems like a good honest shop would not mind you double checking your fluid levels after service work. If I was treated that way they would not have my business plus receive a very nasty online review explaining what happened. Companies should take care how they treat customers or else get bad reviews online.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
So I called him up and told him these new plugs weren't going to work in this engine. Man, did I get an earful. He went on and on about how he was an engineer and would know more than I did about ignition systems and that it must have been something else.
What is it with EEs? I ran into one on another board who wanted to argue that brake fluid never needed to be changed, and that the automakers who required it be changed only did so because their braking systems were poorly designed. He later went on to argue that V6 motors were superior too inline sixes with respect to inherent balance.
So I called him up and told him these new plugs weren't going to work in this engine. Man, did I get an earful. He went on and on about how he was an engineer and would know more than I did about ignition systems and that it must have been something else.
What is it with EEs? I ran into one on another board who wanted to argue that brake fluid never needed to be changed, and that the automakers who required it be changed only did so because their braking systems were poorly designed. He later went on to argue that V6 motors were superior too inline sixes with respect to inherent balance.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
What is it with EEs?.
Can't speak for others but I like being convinced of why I'm wrong. "It just is" isn't accepted unless evidence can be shown to support that sort of argument.
To be fair, I wonder if other engineers are similar in being stubborn? I mean, usually we are problem solvers, and sometimes it takes tenacity to find a solution.
What is it with EEs?.
Can't speak for others but I like being convinced of why I'm wrong. "It just is" isn't accepted unless evidence can be shown to support that sort of argument.
To be fair, I wonder if other engineers are similar in being stubborn? I mean, usually we are problem solvers, and sometimes it takes tenacity to find a solution.
I'm coming to realize I'm a bad customer.
I recently had bad work done. Dealer rebuilt the diff on my truck. I rotated tires a month later, found they cross threaded a stud. Uncharacteristically of me, I went back to have it replaced. That night I spun off the nuts to find, go figure, a damaged stud. My fix will be to not go back, and have that stud replaced elsewhere. Which is what I usually do with places I get poor service from.
I usually don't like dropping my vehicle off for repairs, but am slowly getting used to it. I generally prefer the shops where I can shoot the breeze with the mechanic. I wouldn't care about getting charged the time that I take up.
I recently had bad work done. Dealer rebuilt the diff on my truck. I rotated tires a month later, found they cross threaded a stud. Uncharacteristically of me, I went back to have it replaced. That night I spun off the nuts to find, go figure, a damaged stud. My fix will be to not go back, and have that stud replaced elsewhere. Which is what I usually do with places I get poor service from.
I usually don't like dropping my vehicle off for repairs, but am slowly getting used to it. I generally prefer the shops where I can shoot the breeze with the mechanic. I wouldn't care about getting charged the time that I take up.
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Originally Posted By: supton
Can't speak for others but I like being convinced of why I'm wrong. "It just is" isn't accepted unless evidence can be shown to support that sort of argument.
To be fair, I wonder if other engineers are similar in being stubborn? I mean, usually we are problem solvers, and sometimes it takes tenacity to find a solution.
What bothered me about the guy I mentioned was the fact that he thought that his statement "I'm an EE." trumped any other proof...
Can't speak for others but I like being convinced of why I'm wrong. "It just is" isn't accepted unless evidence can be shown to support that sort of argument.
To be fair, I wonder if other engineers are similar in being stubborn? I mean, usually we are problem solvers, and sometimes it takes tenacity to find a solution.
What bothered me about the guy I mentioned was the fact that he thought that his statement "I'm an EE." trumped any other proof...
I am not sure why it is always the EE's that are like this. Mechanical engineers don't seem to be as much of a problem. They think their degree in electronics somehow trumps my degree in automotive technology because it is an engineering degree. In reality, how does an EE degree have to do with anything mechanical?
Beats me. In school they would try to make analogies to energy storage with springs and such, I thought that complicated things. I still don't understand anything but the most simple free body diagrams.
Now thermo was a subject I enjoyed. Remember none of it, but it was something that I could do.
Now thermo was a subject I enjoyed. Remember none of it, but it was something that I could do.
Originally Posted By: supton
I'm coming to realize I'm a bad customer.
I recently had bad work done. Dealer rebuilt the diff on my truck. I rotated tires a month later, found they cross threaded a stud. Uncharacteristically of me, I went back to have it replaced. That night I spun off the nuts to find, go figure, a damaged stud. My fix will be to not go back, and have that stud replaced elsewhere. Which is what I usually do with places I get poor service from.
How dare you go back and request that the hacks that damaged your vehicle repair it!!!
Why you MUST be a bad customer, it is ALL YOUR FAULT that the shop gives you poor service or wants to "fire you" as a customer. LOL
Like I said...and the industry wonders why customers are automatically suspicious and expecting to be screwed over...
This is one industry where I wish there was some meaningful
gov't regulation that would at least make these places somewhat
responsible for their quality of work and questionable
behavior. That being said because the nature of the car repair beast is generally shady and crooked it wouldn't help at all.
I'm coming to realize I'm a bad customer.
I recently had bad work done. Dealer rebuilt the diff on my truck. I rotated tires a month later, found they cross threaded a stud. Uncharacteristically of me, I went back to have it replaced. That night I spun off the nuts to find, go figure, a damaged stud. My fix will be to not go back, and have that stud replaced elsewhere. Which is what I usually do with places I get poor service from.
How dare you go back and request that the hacks that damaged your vehicle repair it!!!
Why you MUST be a bad customer, it is ALL YOUR FAULT that the shop gives you poor service or wants to "fire you" as a customer. LOL
Like I said...and the industry wonders why customers are automatically suspicious and expecting to be screwed over...
This is one industry where I wish there was some meaningful
gov't regulation that would at least make these places somewhat
responsible for their quality of work and questionable
behavior. That being said because the nature of the car repair beast is generally shady and crooked it wouldn't help at all.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
In reality, how does an EE degree have to do with anything mechanical?
That's what gets me, the guy thought he was an expert on braking systems and engine configurations- and he could not be convinced otherwise...
In reality, how does an EE degree have to do with anything mechanical?
That's what gets me, the guy thought he was an expert on braking systems and engine configurations- and he could not be convinced otherwise...
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